Beyond a warranty issue

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tgtrotter

Member
Howdy,
What would you do if this happened to you ?

Feb 28 2019 we purchased from CW in Valencia CA a 2019 Fuel 305 Toyhauler. Our previous unit was a 2005 Forest River Wildwood 25BH , purchased new. It looked good as new when we sold it to the first buyer. Only once did it go in for warranty and one recall.

Problem is our $xxk Fuel 305 was delivered with a rock under the flooring. There were little things we noticed as we were stocking and prepping for our first outing that first two weeks,smudges, molding , bad indicator light switch and the kitchen sink drain wasn't connected that I took care of, BUT the flooring I contacted Heartland and they said take it to CW. The night before taking it in to warranty I decided to wash the roof, since I never had seen it. Boy was that a shocker. It was rippled and loose to the point of needing replacement. Poor install on a brand new unit. How it left Heartland IDK. How it sat for sale at CW and no one says a thing. IDK.

CW had our unit over 5 weeks. During that time they claim they fixed the sink drain, the floor, some outer moldings, and battery terminals, which later fell off again. The big thing they did was convince us Heartland was not backing the roof warranty after two weeks. They had previously told me it was approved. Now the story is I call Heartland, send pics and get it approved. CW now said they ordered the replacement but after three more weeks Heartland said they hadn't got a request. About this time we feel like suckers. Heartland and CW dropped the ball together.Our 35 wedding anniversary tradition to camp had came and gone.

We pulled our unit unrepaired, floor and roof to another facility that promptly fixed the roof and exterior blems...what we thought was the end. We had missed our Mothers Day outing and our family is saying...didn't you buy a new rig in Feb.? We camp easily 50-60 nights a year.

So we take the rig out and use it. ( read your warranty) The black tank black flush leaked through the wall onto bath floor. I call Heartland and they say send pics. We spend $xxk on a unit and I'm told to remove the panels and send pics ??? So I do and find the fittings loose. I fix that and check ALL the others. Under our bath sink I find the slide-out modulator blinking error code 9 ?? I then clean the interior light lens and most have just 2 or 3 screws of 4 needed to keep from ripping the fixtures out. During our one outting a blue wire had revealed itself from the underneath of our load ramp, so I check on that too. It appears to be installed as an after thought. Un jacketed and zip tied to the center of the levelers. What its for I have no idea. That's what I thought Heartland got the $xxk for. Any reasonable and prudent person expects sufficient engineering and quality work and careful thought. Sure, maybe a few glitches , but this many ?

The straw that breaks the camels back is the wire harnesses I saw that are installed underneath the load ramp, with a shorted loom. Short cutted and raw wires stretched and bent over the sharp edge of the frame and others sitting unprotected on the frame. No jacket or loom.

Again , while I'm checking ALL the plumbing fittings myself I see under the shower pan. The supports are few and oddly shaped scraps of wood. Some splintered from the install staples. My wife says it felt loose. Now I know. Too many corners we turn or uncover in this unit bring concern on two issues. One is the immediate telling of less than industry standard. ( If there are any. But Heartland adverts say they are the Hallmark) And two if Heartland can't ensure a simple thing as screws and wires and plumbing, what about the rest of the unit ? Where else did they cut corners ??

Gee Man. If Heartland can't put a decent roof, sweep ALL debris before laying flooring, connect water and drain fittings, crimp wires, install screws to hold appliances ( oh yeah, our water pump wasnt mounted at all and I also notice our circuit breakers are shoved in crooked) and not ensure wiring is properly jacketed...WHAT THE HECK ELSE AINT RIGHT ??? I'm not going to find out.

We don't want to find out the frame comes undone, or the Slide-out unhinged, or the brakes will fail while driving this unit. We do not pay any amount to be subjected to substandard and assemblage of a public highway fairing unit. It is beyond a "warranty" issue. Seeing what we have , no reasonable and prudent person would expect to feel comfortable in.


Was this unit built on New Years Eve or under a labor dispute ? I have read and re- read their interpretation of a warranty. It's predictable. I'm a business owner myself.

The rig is beautiful. The nuts and bolts are not right/just not there. Heartland has been told by me to buy back the unit or deliver a flagship model. What would you do.??
 
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rhodies1

Well-known member
I feel our pain But unless your state has some form of a lemon law,Heartland will not buy it back. I have not heard of them ever buying a unit back ,the best you can hope for is that they will step up to the plate.
Try contacting their customer support team about your issues and see if they will authorize a mobile tech to perform the work,As stated many times; mobile techs are not owned by the dealers.
You must get prior approval from Heartland before using their services.
 

2PawsRiver

Active Member
When people ask me about RVs, I tell them the secret to being happy with your purhase is understanding three things.

1. They are built like absolute crap, like the people putting them together are either slow, challenged, high or simply don't give a rats butt about quality, standards or the safety of the people who will be living or traveling in these things.

2. Customer Service is the worst that you will ever encounter.....I have traveled and lived in multiple states and countries. The only good thing that RV customer service has done is make me appreciate what I once thought was the worst, Harley Davidson.

3. Sales people, while nice, don't know a whole lot, make money by selling you an RV and will never tell you about 1 and 2.

Your only option is...……...spend the first year taking it back and getting things fixed. We have had our 10 months and it has been to the shop 4 times. The fifth time is already scheduled. Hopefully you got the extended warranty. Since you can't get it in without at least a months notice and typically they keep it for a while you will most likely not get all the bugs worked out in a year.

Long story short...….I feel your pain, but am not even remotely surprised.
 

TravelTiger

Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
Actually, you don't have to take your Heartland to your selling dealer at all. Heartland can authorize a mobile tech or service center that is not a dealer to do warranty work. Just call and ask.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tgtrotter

Member
Howdy,
I do appreciate the replies. I am a quick learner and Have figured what ALL was said. The point of the post is not to keep the unit. We don't feel safe. Why should we when we keep uncovering shortcomings during production.

We did look at Heartlands mission statement and having experience with our prior premier unit expected reasonable results. The roof the flooring the plumbing the wiring have all surfaced as lacking reasonable and prudent care. Short cuts in production. Blatant short cuts. What's not to say the frame or the axles or brakes have not been neglected either.

I've read a ton of posts here. I put the ball in Heartlands court and am waiting for a reply. I do live in CA which has a lemon law. I am a business owner myself 41 years. I have seen contracts, warranties, and disclaimers over ruled. As well as arbitration over ridden by due process.

[COLOR
 

kowAlski631

Well-known member
You know that this is an owner's forum. Heartland doesn't monitor it. If you want to contact Heartland, you need to call them.

Martha
 

tgtrotter

Member
Hi Martha,

I have been in contact with Heartland and am waiting to "hear back". It's a big decision for them. So I will give them " some" time. They know what's up on the forum too.

Have a great day,
Tim
 

danemayer

Well-known member
If I understand your detailed list of complaints, it seems like all failures have been repaired, but you have concerns about things which have not failed.

WHAT THE HECK ELSE AINT RIGHT ??? I'm not going to find out.

So you want Heartland to buy back your trailer or give you a "flagship model" (btw: flagship models cost twice as much).

It sounds like you have buyers remorse, which is not a warranty issue.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Heartland declines your request.
 

LBR

Well-known member
Hi Martha,

I have been in contact with Heartland and am waiting to "hear back". It's a big decision for them. So I will give them " some" time. They know what's up on the forum too.

Have a great day,
Tim

So nice to be the Commander of one's ship....may be a good time to head back to the S&B lifestyle IMO.
 

2PawsRiver

Active Member
Well Tim, I am glad to be a part of this thread and wish you nothing but the best. Sounds like you have a lot of experience and maybe some resources. It would be nice to look back and see where the change started.....where Tim took on the manufacturers in California and won and as a result guess what...……….companies were put in a position to start manufacturing Rv's that are good quality, built with quality products, safe and the manufacturer held responsible.

I would say the best way to fight this battle would be with dollars, if people would quit spending money on these things until they reach a certain standard then manufacturers would have to build a quality product. Unfortunately we accept that they are crap and keep buying them, myself included.

As I said I'm OK with it, I knew it would be crap and I knew service would suck, is what it is......we will keep plugging away, taking it in for service and getting things fixed over time replacing some of the crap items with a better quality item...….it's the battle.
 

Shortest Straw

Caught In A Mosh
Howdy,
What would you do if this happened to you ?

Feb 28 2019 we purchased from CW in Valencia CA a 2019 Fuel 305 Toyhauler. Our previous unit was a 2005 Forest River Wildwood 25BH , purchased new. It looked good as new when we sold it to the first buyer. Only once did it go in for warranty and one recall.

Problem is our $xxk Fuel 305 was delivered with a rock under the flooring. There were little things we noticed as we were stocking and prepping for our first outing that first two weeks,smudges, molding , bad indicator light switch and the kitchen sink drain wasn't connected that I took care of, BUT the flooring I contacted Heartland and they said take it to CW. The night before taking it in to warranty I decided to wash the roof, since I never had seen it. Boy was that a shocker. It was rippled and loose to the point of needing replacement. Poor install on a brand new unit. How it left Heartland IDK. How it sat for sale at CW and no one says a thing. IDK.

CW had our unit over 5 weeks. During that time they claim they fixed the sink drain, the floor, some outer moldings, and battery terminals, which later fell off again. The big thing they did was convince us Heartland was not backing the roof warranty after two weeks. They had previously told me it was approved. Now the story is I call Heartland, send pics and get it approved. CW now said they ordered the replacement but after three more weeks Heartland said they hadn't got a request. About this time we feel like suckers. Heartland and CW dropped the ball together.Our 35 wedding anniversary tradition to camp had came and gone.

We pulled our unit unrepaired, floor and roof to another facility that promptly fixed the roof and exterior blems...what we thought was the end. We had missed our Mothers Day outing and our family is saying...didn't you buy a new rig in Feb.? We camp easily 50-60 nights a year.

So we take the rig out and use it. ( read your warranty) The black tank black flush leaked through the wall onto bath floor. I call Heartland and they say send pics. We spend $xxk on a unit and I'm told to remove the panels and send pics ??? So I do and find the fittings loose. I fix that and check ALL the others. Under our bath sink I find the slide-out modulator blinking error code 9 ?? I then clean the interior light lens and most have just 2 or 3 screws of 4 needed to keep from ripping the fixtures out. During our one outting a blue wire had revealed itself from the underneath of our load ramp, so I check on that too. It appears to be installed as an after thought. Un jacketed and zip tied to the center of the levelers. What its for I have no idea. That's what I thought Heartland got the $xxk for. Any reasonable and prudent person expects sufficient engineering and quality work and careful thought. Sure, maybe a few glitches , but this many ?

The straw that breaks the camels back is the wire harnesses I saw that are installed underneath the load ramp, with a shorted loom. Short cutted and raw wires stretched and bent over the sharp edge of the frame and others sitting unprotected on the frame. No jacket or loom.

Again , while I'm checking ALL the plumbing fittings myself I see under the shower pan. The supports are few and oddly shaped scraps of wood. Some splintered from the install staples. My wife says it felt loose. Now I know. Too many corners we turn or uncover in this unit bring concern on two issues. One is the immediate telling of less than industry standard. ( If there are any. But Heartland adverts say they are the Hallmark) And two if Heartland can't ensure a simple thing as screws and wires and plumbing, what about the rest of the unit ? Where else did they cut corners ??

Gee Man. If Heartland can't put a decent roof, sweep ALL debris before laying flooring, connect water and drain fittings, crimp wires, install screws to hold appliances ( oh yeah, our water pump wasnt mounted at all and I also notice our circuit breakers are shoved in crooked) and not ensure wiring is properly jacketed...WHAT THE HECK ELSE AINT RIGHT ??? I'm not going to find out.

We don't want to find out the frame comes undone, or the Slide-out unhinged, or the brakes will fail while driving this unit. We do not pay any amount to be subjected to substandard and assemblage of a public highway fairing unit. It is beyond a "warranty" issue. Seeing what we have , no reasonable and prudent person would expect to feel comfortable in.


Was this unit built on New Years Eve or under a labor dispute ? I have read and re- read their interpretation of a warranty. It's predictable. I'm a business owner myself.

The rig is beautiful. The nuts and bolts are not right/just not there. Heartland has been told by me to buy back the unit or deliver a flagship model. What would you do.??



While I realize that many things show themselves after use, why did you take delivery with the very visible ones being what they were? Did you forget inspecting the roof is part of the PDI? You should have had many of these things fixed to your specifications prior to even signing any paperwork. Unfortunately I have not talked to anyone this year who is happy with their rig across the brands. I have been helping our current neighbor fix a bunch of things on his rig the last couple of weeks. It is the nature of the beast because we all want to travel and camp in luxury, the factories know this, and they also know that no matter how many corners they cut, folks will buy their substandard crap. Warranty or not, fix the simple things yourself. You can be mad and disheartened all you want, but that is not going to get you out camping. Good luck with your repairs. Hope you can find an independent shop to do the work. CW has already shown you their true colors.
 

avvidclif

Well-known member
One of the happiest days of my life was when the warranty ran out with no major problems. Now whatever comes up I can either fix or have fixed without having to deal with the mfg headache.
 

NYSUPstater

Well-known member
And if you bash CW on another major RV forum, the post will be deleted. I agree that many items should've been caught/addressed as well during a PDI and not taken ownership until they were fixed or just walk away and go another dealer. Sadly as well, CW is what comes to most folks mind for RV's and supplies. Many other players out there. I admit that we have purchased quite a few items from CW, long before Amazon came around. But I did compare to Wal-Mart just the same. Few years ago, local CW had a used Creek that was newer than ours, but appeared to have been "used" a lot more. At first we liked the floorplan and all, but once we really started to look it over, it became quite apparent that it was really USED. Broken springs, different tires, few other things. We walked away.

Likewise, when we bought our BC, purchased it out of state. Asked salesman about them going over it very well cuz I wasn't bringing it back for items to be fixed (500 miles 1 way). Was told they would. Arrived before they opened up and allowed in and immediately son/I went to town checking over things. He did the inside and I the outside. Both made lists and narrowed it down to the ones dealer needed to take care of before we signed things. Others, do ourselves. Worked out great and we were there for about 3-4 hours total. Wasn't about to hand over coo-coo buck check and still have major issues. As it was, we did, but wasn't due to any fault of the dealer, rather HL and Dexter. Items repaired to our satisfaction.
 

tgtrotter

Member
"The rig is beautiful. The nuts and bolts are not right/just not there."

Dan, That does not sound like "buyers remorse." Buyers disappointment yes. Not everything has been fixed and stuff fixed like thhie battery lugs I have since redone.

As far as noticing a stuff before delivery. The pebble under the floor became apparent when we were barefoot. I outweighed the roof ladder and shame on me for not bringing my my own. CW @ delivery did go up on the roof to check the solar cord. Shame on them for not noticing the roof was flagrantly rippled and loose . And as far as the stray loose wire it surfaced 120 miles on our first and only trip. Upon return and laying underneath is when I discovered unjacketed wire harnesses. Also not til dumping loose plumbing fittings. What, am I supposed to undo all the inspection panels and check all the fittings, pump, convertor and wiring ?


So excuse me for not bringing a 12ft ladder, my creeper, doing a load of dishes or back flushing the tank at delivery all while barefoot. Shame on me. I also don't take blame for not noticing every failure, whether prior or to possibly come.

As stated in the OP, Our first unit had one warranty issue period. Not major defects or ommissions as this unit. Yes there were minor things like screws or tape...But not screws missing on fixtures or appliances unmounted or the things I have previously mentioned.

I'm not apologetic.
I do go against the tide in accepting and feeling like it is the norm. Somewhat yes, but this display by HL keeps me up at night worrying about more important safety features. Witnessing the poor nanufacturing, why would I not have legitimate concerns. The rig is beautiful. The nuts and bolts are just not there.




 
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kowAlski631

Well-known member
Hi Martha,

I have been in contact with Heartland and am waiting to "hear back". It's a big decision for them. So I will give them " some" time. They know what's up on the forum too.

Have a great day,
Tim

Perhaps Heartland does, but I wouldn't bet the ranch on it. Let me ask you what is good on your trailer? Seems to me that you're focused on issues that appear to have been resolved.
 

TravelTiger

Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
"What, am I supposed to undo all the inspection panels and check all the fittings, pump, convertor and wiring ?

So excuse me for not bringing a 12ft ladder, my creeper, doing a load of dishes or back flushing the tank at delivery all while barefoot. Shame on me.






I tried to narrow down to these statements, because yes, in today's RV market, it's the only way you get a rig with a low number of problems. The uneducated or trusting buyer will be the sucker every time.

So yes, bring your creeper, and ladder, do the load of dishes, walk around barefoot, check behind the panels.

We tried to do just that. Dealer had it hooked to water, which we ran every faucet while there and checked fittings, did a dump, we removed panels (found a leak at the pump), we used their tech's mobile stairs to get on the roof, and crawled under the rig, etc. etc.

All the while they said they did a multipoint inspection and we had nothing to worry about.......!








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JohnDar

Prolifically Gabby Member
Our BH was built in February of 2008, even though it’s considered a 2009 model. All OEM appliances still work, no external leaks and I do most of my own minor repairs and upgrades. I still use the rear ladder to access the roof. When we got it from General RV, Birch Run, MI, 10 years ago, the PDI was “monkey see, monkey do” as the service tech led me around. And they found and corrected some glitches that I didn’t see. By comparison, our S&B has had more problems and workmanship gaffs than the trailer. More costly, too.


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tgtrotter

Member
So nice to be the Commander of one's ship....may be a good time to head back to the S&B lifestyle IMO.


We've been RVing 14+ years. We have met the nicest people. Never until this comment have we been told to stay home. That was rude and uncalled for.

We are not nitpicking like the tear in the bedding, wavering skirts, scuffs on the nose cap, stiff vents, missing curtain straps, goo mess from stickers, crooked hung cupboard doors...
I've said little stuff I/we fix. Multiple major component and system wiring and plumbing failures out the gate is a problem.

I appreciate every reply. It's info. Seems to be broken into two sides. Those who say that is just the way it is. And those who misread and say call HL.

No everything of late has not been repaired, ie badly routed unprotected wires. YES YES YES I can fix it. But why should I ? Why should any of us be expected too ? When did this become the norm ?

The gist of the list of major manufacturing problems I did not create. For instance one bad corner or sealant on a roof is a warranty issue. To have the entire length of a roof loose on the edge 4-6 inches and a series of large ripples is a Manufacturing problem. I did not install a crappy roof, lay flooring, short change screws, install unprotected wiring.....The gist is not a warranty but a manufacturing problem. If this unit has these obviously quality control problems now, what else has been compromised during manufacturing ? Folks we are not talking about one or two areas. For those who say I'm worried about stuff that has not happened, fine. I find myself more proactive.

I'm a newbie. Only had one unit 14 years. Put well over 60k miles, which is a lot for a TT and someone in the full time working world. I guess I'm spoiled that the roof or slide or frame or flooring or major multiple stuff did not fail. I guess I'm spoiled but I do not accept this unit as the norm. Wasn't the norm with my last rig. Why should it be now ?

A few get it. Just started with a question about buy backs. Not warranty. Not what you think we should endure.

Anybody have ANY experience with buybacks ?
 

TravelTiger

Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
I clearly hear the frustration in your post. You can fix and enjoy, or move on to something else. The forum regulars are happy to try to help anyone with fixes. But what I've seen in 11 years on the forum, threats and rants don't get you very far with Heartland.


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tgtrotter

Member
I clearly hear the frustration in your post. You can fix and enjoy, or move on to something else. The forum regulars are happy to try to help anyone with fixes. But what I've seen in 11 years on the forum, threats and rants don't get you very far with Heartland.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ranting yes. Threatening no.

- - - Updated - - -

So you want Heartland to buy back your trailer or give you a "flagship model" (btw: flagship models cost twice as much).

Didn't write "flagship model ". Flagship as " the best ". Heartland knows what I meant.
 
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