Mor/Ryde Systems...

Just out of curiosity I am going to stir the pot a little.

A number of people seem to be having a problem with Lippert. I think the problem being discussed is that they feel that Lippert is not standing up to their product. The product that is on the Heartland trailers is agreed upon by Heartland. I don’t think that Lippert told Heartland that they had to use their frames, jacks, axles, springs and such. Are they meeting the requests made by Heartland.

So now, many, such as myself that are going to Mor/Ryde. What is Mor/Ryde’s history. From some of the recall notices I have read they did have a problem a number of years ago. The Mor/Ryde system, as I remember has a 5 year warranty. If it breaks how do we get it fixed when we are not in Indiana.

Has anyone had a problem with the Mor/Ryde IS, DB, and NL.
I have a friend that really does not like the idea of having a block of rubber supporting the trailer. He has been trying to discourage me from getting the IS system.

I have not heard a complaint about Mor/Ryde, but if they start selling more systems because of other companies like Lippert, will they start having more complaints while they are having more product on the road?

I would like to hear the comments from those that have Mor/Ryde on their trailer and those planning to have the system installed.

I hope that this will be a civil discussion that will be an aid to all those that are interested.

BC

It does beg the question of why owners with problems need to deal directly with the vendors that Heartland uses, rather than Heartland being the one that does it. If you buy a new car and something goes wrong with a component, you don't have to call the auto company's vendors ... you take it to the dealer and they deal with it.

The other question is the statistics involved. Granted, if some of these problems occur on your rig, it's a castastrophe and seeing red is definitely justified, but just how wide spread are they?

JohnDar said:

It does beg the question of why owners with problems need to deal directly with the vendors that Heartland uses, rather than Heartland being the one that does it. If you buy a new car and something goes wrong with a component, you don't have to call the auto company's vendors ... you take it to the dealer and they deal with it.

The other question is the statistics involved. Granted, if some of these problems occur on your rig, it's a castastrophe and seeing red is definitely justified, but just how wide spread are they?

Click to expand...

Well, A quick search a couple weeks ago netted me a list of 13 people on JUST the HOF with some kind of spring problem. This was a quick search, nothing in depth at all. I don't really think I want to do a search on SOB forum. FWIW, I think that is widespread enough and I do know there are more amongst us that are keeping quiet but seathing as well.

Bob;
I think that was a great question. I owned a Sea Breeze for about 5 years. It had MorRyde suspension on it. The rubber blocks had some cracks in them that concerned me and I called MorRyde and talked to Gary in sales and then one of their technical people (sorry, I don't remember her name) and was assured that the cracks were superficial and not to worry. Long story short, I towed it another 15 to 20k miles with no problem or adverse effects. When I bought the Landmark, I felt that it rode a lot rougher than the Sea Breeze. I communicated my concerns to Heartland and shortly received a call that I needed to have my suspension modified. This was authorized by Lippert and the difference in the ride was very noticeable. The long and short of this is that I personally believe that either company builds a good suspension system. Are there upgrades that will improve the ride? Sure, like anything else, it can be improved upon.

John

John,
I think that is an exellent question as to why purchasers have to deal with all the various vendors when their units components fail. Like you stated, in the auto industry they do not. One might would say that it is because Heartlands/SOB warranty is only one year and many of the components in the coach are warrantied for more than a year by the suppliers. So, whats the difference with the auto industry and the RV industry? The automobile components are backed by the suppliers but as a consumer, we deal with Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc dealers. For example, if we have engine problems and the engines are warrantied more than the vehicles bumper to bumper warranties, we do not have to pursue repairs with Cummins, International, etc......we go to a manufacturers dealer, not the supplier.

vangoes said:

John,
I think that is an exellent question as to why purchasers have to deal with all the various vendors when their units components fail. Like you stated, in the auto industry they do not. One might would say that it is because Heartlands/SOB warranty is only one year and many of the components in the coach are warrantied for more than a year by the suppliers. So, whats the difference with the auto industry and the RV industry? The automobile components are backed by the suppliers but as a consumer, we deal with Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc dealers. For example, if we have engine problems and the engines are warrantied more than the vehicles bumper to bumper warranties, we do not have to pursue repairs with Cummins, International, etc......we go to a manufacturers dealer, not the supplier.

Click to expand...

I have made a similiar statement on another thread.. I'm a newbe to RVing and I have been amazed why it is needful for owners to contact suppliers.. Is this the normal way of business in the RV world? Maybe I have been spoiled by the auto industry, but I still think the only people that I as a RV owner is the dealer and manufacturer of the product I bought, whether Heratland or SOB.
If it is common to the industry to have to get involved with suppliers in addition to dealer, and manufacturer, I sure have a lot to learn..
I hope shop manuals are being developed and made available to owners..

Experienced RVers, is this the normal way of business?

We did it

BC,
We did the whole thing at Mor/Ryde last fall. The suspension, hydraulic disc brakes, and never lube bearings. We have only driven it approximately 800 miles since then, but OH WHAT A DIFFERENCE IN RIDE QUALITY and stopping distances. Regarding the suspension by rubber question - I would rather take a chance on Mor/Ryde's system than the cheap Chinese springs, shakels and other hardware that Lippert supplies on our rolling homes. In addition when they do the installation they add some pretty beefy looking additional cross bracing to your frame, to tie the whole thing together. Look at a 5vr with the IS system and then one that doesn't and the difference is link the difference between an 18 wheeler tractor and a 1/2 ton pickup. It may very well be a big boondoggel, but it sure makes me feel more secure and safe, and like I said the difference in the ride in the TRUCK is incredible, so I know it must be much better inside our 3055RL. Hope this helps.

This is an interesting topic. Yes, I too have seen an unusual increase in the number of posts relating to springs, shocks, shackles and even frame structure lately. I knew early on about the problems with the plastic bushings and dry shackle bolts. I've just procrastinated. I've also been watching my springs lately. Since Lin has worked-camped last year, we can afford to do a little upgrading. We will be adding the bedroom A/C and Mor-ryde IS but keeping the drum braking system. All new brakes though. I also agree that as owners we shouldn't have to deal directly with vendors and for the most part we don't have to.We should be dealing directly with our dealers which is difficult in this time of internet/best price shopping. We also know and are waiting to hear the outcome of a couple of situations where Heartland is trying to work with Lippert to resolve the issues. I for one will wait for that to make any sort of judgement. I can say with the Trail Air pin box, our trailers take a lot less abuse from our fine highway system. I believe the Mor-ryde IS will only make it much smoother. Some fodder for thought. Lippert builds Heartland frames using I-Beam construction. They also build Double Tree frames using Rectangular tubing construction. I wonder how much more our rigs would cost with a double tree frame? Would it be stronger? My guess is yes. We get what we pay for. OK, that's my nickles worth.

more springs

Bob
You are opening a can of worms.
Having my springs, just replace, last week 5-5-09. I am fresh out of the shop.
Lack of springs that can hold the weight of something as big as a 36' foot trailer right out of the factory? They were 4 leaf, and from China. One look at my springs, "those springs are over loaded.", but the axles aren't (6000lbs). I now have other questions but that is for a different day.
Bob
Mariposa

jpmorgan37 said:

Bob;
I think that was a great question. I owned a Sea Breeze for about 5 years. It had MorRyde suspension on it. The rubber blocks had some cracks in them that concerned me and I called MorRyde and talked to Gary in sales and then one of their technical people (sorry, I don't remember her name) and was assured that the cracks were superficial and not to worry. Long story short, I towed it another 15 to 20k miles with no problem or adverse effects. When I bought the Landmark, I felt that it rode a lot rougher than the Sea Breeze. I communicated my concerns to Heartland and shortly received a call that I needed to have my suspension modified. This was authorized by Lippert and the difference in the ride was very noticeable. The long and short of this is that I personally believe that either company builds a good suspension system. Are there upgrades that will improve the ride? Sure, like anything else, it can be improved upon.

John

Click to expand...

Jphn,
What mods did Lippert authorize?

I am in the HVAC business. If I sell you a piece of equipment and there is an issue, you deal with me. I will deal with the manufacturer. If the manufacturer does not stand up for their product, I will find a new manufacturer to sell. Period. I am responsible for what I sell. I bought a Heartland because I was told that they will stand behind their product. If I have an issue I will take it to my dealer to have the problem fixed. If, for any reason they can't take care of it between them and Heartland I will be very upset about my decision. I don't expect that to happen though.

We have had great luck in dealing with our dealer, the only reason we talked with Heartland is we were at a rally in Elkhart and took a tour of the factory. That is when we meet Jim Fenner and I mentioned our spring problem. He was very helpful in getting lippert to send new springs, however I feel that if I had went to the dealer first they would of got it done also. This time I did go to the dealer and lippert says because we replaced the springs, I agreed that ended the warrenty, and I will take some fault here I was suppose to send the springs back and haven't done that yet. However owning some semi's when we purchase new, it will have a motor warrenty of 5years or 500000 miles which ever comes first. If it blows up in the 5/500000 period and then does it again within that period it is still covered. It's not just a one time deal, that part I just don't get. And the dealer is the one that normally takes care of the issue. That being said we believe in our dealer and Heartland also, and we still feel that we have one of the best trailers on the market. We also realize that if you want a problem free trailer, there wouldn't be many camping as you couldn't afford the camper. JMO

I think the issue here with the voided warranty is because the springs are being replaced by the owner of the RV, NOT a qualified repair facility.

We had a spring replaced early on, at a repair shop authorized by Lippert and our warranty was not voided...I can see their point.

Niles,

Thank you for chiming in with the rest of the story. I had passed your comments to the VP of Purchasing who passed them to Lippert who pulled up your case and they replied with the same thing you said. Customer was advised warranty would be voided if self-installed. Customer never returned old springs under RMA.

Not chastising you at all. Praising you for adding the rest of the story. So many people don't do that. Thank you

Jim

I'm not complaining, and am moving on from this issue, however they never offered to pay a shop to put them on. Kind of a catch 22 in my opinion, and guess I did not realize me installing voided the warranty. My mistake and I won't cry now. One more thing and I'll shut-up, It's not rocket science to take two bolts per spring and two u-bolts off and replace. Proper torque is the only issue, and JF had to give me that. I don't mean to offend any one on this, it's just comes down to springs are a weak link in the system.

I see two issues here. First - I have a friend who has had the Mor-Ryde IS, Disc Brakes, Never Lube Bearings on his Teton and has for 5 years. He has towed it all over the place without issues. After his experience, and personally observing the customer service offered by Mor-Ryde, and misaligned axles, bent axles, braking problems on our Landmark, I was convinced to get the IS, Disc Brakes and Never Lube Bearings on our unit. We have never been happier. We have traveled over 6000 miles since it's install without issues. I am convinced that the electric/hydraulic disc brakes should be standard on all large 5ers (my opnion) for the safety of the public. I do know that if I should ever have an issue with the Mor-Ryde system I am dealing with a company that will stand behind their product even if it means sending a technician to my location to repair the problem.

The second issue; Dealing with vendors vs dealers/manufacturers. After owning several RVs and many motor vehicles, and reading many many posts I feel we are to blame for many of the problems. We do not demand dealers stand behind the products they sell nor do we demand RV Manufacturers require their dealers to service the product lines they sell. RV Manufacturers allow dealers to tell RV Owners they will not service them because they did not buy the product from them. This causes the RV Owners to either do the service themselves or deal directly with the manufacturer or vendor. If an auto dealer would pull that stunt the manufacturer would pull their product line from them. It is high time RV Manufacturers have enough confidence in their product to demand their dealers service the product name they sell or not be allowed to sell it. It is high time RV Manufacturers demand their vendors provide a quality product at a reasonable price to them and then stand behind their product. And finally it is high time we, as consumers, demand the dealers, manufacturers and vendors sell a safe, quality product with an enforcable warranty or we walk away from buying that product no matter how good it looks on the outside.

The above expressed opnions are mine and several other owners that I know.

All of this said, I still love my Heartland product.

I apreciate the rest of the story also. Upon my first talk with Lippert on my "spring" issue I was also told about the voided warranty and was not prepared for it or the pay "us" now we'll pay you back routine. I've been down that route before and never will again with any company.
On the subject of who replaces the springs, just like Niles says it is'nt rocket science and I'll bet a day's pay that the low man on the totem pole, read 18 year old punk, gets the job at the approved waranty station. Most of these "RV Techs" are at a stage in their life were they could care less if the front DS bolt is torqued or not. Heck they could care less about one of "us" rich RV'ers going down the road and his incompetence causing bodily or monetary harm. I'm sorry, maybe showing my age but I've tried hiring the younger and it just don't work.
I gladly "voided" my spring warranty, 5 months remainder, to do the job right and put in the wet bolt system with the peace of mind that it is going to be done right by someone that has done it many, many times over the last 30 years on other trailers.
I too have NO problems with Heartland except the way we get passed off to the manufacturer of a junky product they use. I have used one certain manufacturer in my business for 30 years and can count the number of times I've had a problem with their products, which has been thousands, on one hand and MY customer didn't have to go back to the manufacturer and plead his case.
Thanks again Niles for the rest of the story and to Jim B. for not making all these posts disappear.
Gary

boatdoc said:

...
Thanks again Niles for the rest of the story and to Jim B. for not making all these posts disappear.
Gary

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No problem Gary.

For everyone,

I may ask someone to "cease and desist" after continually having them post the same problem over and over and over, but rare is the time you will see posts deleted for any reason. It happens but very rarely.

I think some people feel that only "the good" gets posted on this forum. Read RV.net and that's what a lot of people say. Not sure where they get that from but it's just not true. If we don't listen to what you, the consumer has to say, how can we ever build a better product?

I truly appreciate constructive criticism. Many don't know what that means but I treasure those that do Mean spirited posts are just that - mean. And honestly, they go under-appreciated.

Heartland is here, Heartland is listening to you. The world will not be changed overnight. Keep it real, keep it constructive and keep it coming.

Jim

WOW what a response. Thanks to everyone, there are some interesting posts.

One of the things that is prevalent is whether we should go to the dealer, the manufacturer or the vendor for repairs. Everyone is equating the RV industry to the auto industry. Is this a fair equivalent? Maybe or maybe not. The auto industry has been at their business a lot longer than the RV and there are more autos being purchased. I also think that a lot of the auto industry has parts manufactured specifically for their vehicle.

The warranty for the auto industry is longer than the rv industry. For years auto warranty has been 3 years 36,000 miles. That is increasing due to competition. Hyundai changed part of the auto warranty by going to 5 year 100,000 mile. Chrysler has a lifetime drive train warranty. However, I believe some of these warranties have specific conditions.

Another thought is when you buy a house. The structure is normally taken care of by the builder. However the A/C is covered by the vender though a repair service. Same thing with the dishwasher, water heater, and a number of other appliances. This would equate a lot to the RV industry. One difference is that the house sets in one spot if you don’t consider movement of the ground around the foundation.

One thing I think the RV industry should address is that it has a different responsibility concerning certain areas. The biggest is safety. We pull these trailers on the highway and the main structure, frame and support requires that they meet certain safety requirements. The frame, pin box and all that support the trailer must not fail. Axles must support the trailer. Tires and rims must meet the weight being carried. Tires that come apart because they are least expensive and are at their limit need to be corrected. Axles should support the trailer, not a portion. There should be no compromise. And we must know what the weight limits are and maintain that requirement. The difference in the dry weight of a trailer and the maximum weight need have a large enough difference so that it can be loaded with our STUFF. We always think we can put all of our STUFF in a trailer and not worry about being overloaded. However I think many of the RV’s do not allow a large enough range for us to take along the things we think we need. As one person posted when he loaded the trailer there was not enough left for them to get in the truck.

I think jmaguire is correct. If you buy an A/C from him and you have a problem you should go to him to get it repaired. However we are equating doing the same thing as the RV industry. What would be more comparable is we go to the builder to have the A/C repaired. The warranty of the A/C is by the mfgr of the A/C and we would call a repair man to get the repairs done. If the repair company installs a new A/C we would go directly to that company, but if they are no longer in business we go to another repair service and go to the mfgr of the A/C. Is this not correct.

Dealers to me are a different subject. Traveling fulltime I am normally never near the dealer that I purchased the RV from. I have had very little dealings with the dealer after the PDI and a few repairs while I was in the area. Now I have to depend on contacting the Mfgr. (Heartland) to get me to a dealer or repair service that can do the work needed regardless if it is under warranty or not. With my F250 I can take it to a Ford Dealer and usually get quality repair. Expensive but normally competent. Finding a repair place other than a Ford dealership can be a toss of the dice.

I am having the Mor/Ryde installed because I believe it will be a more dependable system than the one I have now, it will keep my trailer in better condition for a longer period of time and with the disk brakes it will be a safer system. Now, will I have any problem with the warranty or quality of the product, because it can fail. I don’t know but many of us that are installing the system are betting that it will. We shall see. And if I have a problem I will not go to Lippert or Heartland. It will land squarely on Mor/Ryde.

Thank you all that have and are responding to this thread. I am looking forward to getting my Mor/Ryde system installed and hit the road. Lets all keep in touch. As a group of we have more leverage to get things done than if we were alone and just complaining.

Travel Safe and God Bless.
BC

The analogy that Bobcat makes between the RV industry and home builders has a lot of merit. When we think of auto industry and dealerships, we generally see are one brand- i.e. Ford, Chevrolet, etc. represented at the dealership. As has been stated the auto industry has over one hundred years of experience in establishing their business model. And then there is volume... as with other areas of business "he who has the $$$ (volume or market share) rules". If Heartland becomes the "Big Dog" on the block, they wil be positioned to better dictate desires and intentions to suppliers and hopefully maintain value pricing. If not, they join the pack and rely on what is availiable from supplier who are also driven by $$$.