By (Popular?) Demand - Our Ownership Story

[danemayer]

A volt meter would really help you. If the non-contact tester showed that one wire going to the outlet is HOT, but nothing works in that outlet, and you replaced the outlet, I'd suspect the neutral line is open somewhere.

Based on what you're describing, measuring at the outlet, I think a volt meter would read 120V between HOT and GROUND. But instead of reading 120V between HOT and NEUTRAL, you're getting a reading way closer to 0 volts, which would indicate an open or partially open neutral wire. That could be in the junction box, or back at the circuit breaker panel, or in-between.

 

[jmgratz]

I would replace the GFCI outlet in the bathroom.

 

[Rhyph]

This outlet is not on the GFCI line though, would that matter? It's doing it's self test ok as well.

I did get a bit more adventurous and opened up the main panel while I had some time, checked the torque on all of the grounds, neutrals and hots on the breakers themselves. All good there. I'll hopefully have some time today to run up to the big box orange store and grab a multi-meter.

A new development: Our microwave/convection oven seems to have died yesterday. The night before I used it to convection bake some fries with it's usual electrical burning smell. Yesterday for lunch, reheated some chicken, came out stone cold in the middle, had to triple the time I would have expected it to take. Then at dinner time, did some steamed veggies in a bag thing, again stone cold, hard broccoli is hardly done, tripled the time and it still wasn't quite done. So I suppose that finally gets added to the full failure/broken list.

 

[buddyboy]

It had an electrical burning smell whenever used and you continued using it? I just don't understand why. If we had an electrical burning smell, we'd not use it until we found and corrected the problem. Just my 2¢ worth.

Martha

 

[Bones]

At this point you need to unplug your camper from the pedistal. It sounds like your rig is suffering from low voltage or a phase out and it will start to melt electrical devices and possibly cause a fire until you figure out the cause.

 

[jmgratz]

The GFCI in the bathroom was what caused the problem in ours. However we never had the burning smell. The GFCI was not connected to the microwave circuit but was causing the problem (we never did figure that one out). It took the RV Tech 3 hours of troubleshooting to find and fix the problem. I do agree that if you are having a burning smell I would find that issue before using anything else. Arcing in an electrical circuit would probably cause that issue. That could be from a loose connection. Arcing at the pedestal would probably not be smelled inside. BTW the GFCI in the bathroom issue was causing the microwave wall outlet to be 'dead'.

 

[Rhyph]

Well we really can't do that while sitting here in 90deg plus temps, with our dogs and we're basically living in this until we get home through this weekend. I don't see any other signs of an impending meltdown, if I did, we would be outta here in a heartbeat and in a hotel already.

The microwave/convection oven burning smell has been present from the very first time we used it. Heartland's response on initial complaint was, "It's working, we're not replacing it or call the manufacturer". Heartland has forced us in to continued use through inaction and trying to displace fault which hasn't left us with any options unless I want to run out and buy a new one and replace it myself. Now if they want to pony up and get a mobile tech out here, I'd certainly welcome it. I've tried to contact the manager I've been dealing with today, and I'm waiting for a call back.

- - - Updated - - -

The GFCI in the bathroom was what caused the problem in ours. However we never had the burning smell. The GFCI was not connected to the microwave circuit but was causing the problem (we never did figure that one out). It took the RV Tech 3 hours of troubleshooting to find and fix the problem. I do agree that if you are having a burning smell I would find that issue before using anything else. Arcing in an electrical circuit would probably cause that issue. That could be from a loose connection. Arcing at the pedestal would probably not be smelled inside. BTW the GFCI in the bathroom issue was causing the microwave wall outlet to be 'dead'.

Just to be clear, the only time the burning electrical smell happens is when we use the convection side of the oven, never at any other time. The first two times we used it, I chalked it up to being "new oven" burn off smell. That has never gone away and we've since registered it as a complaint item on our list and as I mentioned above while cross-posting what the response back then was. I have known since then that it was jut a matter of time before it died and here we are.

I'm on my way out to grab a multi-meter now and will report my findings as quickly as I can. Thanks again for all the guidance from everyone so far!

 

[Bones]

Well we really can't do that while sitting here in 90deg plus temps, with our dogs and we're basically living in this until we get home through this weekend. I don't see any other signs of an impending meltdown, if I did, we would be outta here in a heartbeat and in a hotel already.

The microwave/convection oven burning smell has been present from the very first time we used it. Heartland's response on initial complaint was, "It's working, we're not replacing it or call the manufacturer". Heartland has forced us in to continued use through inaction and trying to displace fault which hasn't left us with any options unless I want to run out and buy a new one and replace it myself. Now if they want to pony up and get a mobile tech out here, I'd certainly welcome it. I've tried to contact the manager I've been dealing with today, and I'm waiting for a call back.

- - - Updated - - -



Just to be clear, the only time the burning electrical smell happens is when we use the convection side of the oven, never at any other time. The first two times we used it, I chalked it up to being "new oven" burn off smell. That has never gone away and we've since registered it as a complaint item on our list and as I mentioned above while cross-posting what the response back then was. I have known since then that it was jut a matter of time before it died and here we are.

I'm on my way out to grab a multi-meter now and will report my findings as quickly as I can. Thanks again for all the guidance from everyone so far!

This may sound harsh but when it comes to electric and there is evidence that a problem is occurring you don't just sit and wait. You need to get this taken care of. You had an outlet burn out/no voltage your microwave just burned up/ Your running your Air Conditioner's on what could be a deadly situation and you wont even know it. Electric current (AC) is not something you just play around with!!!!

 

[Rhyph]

Here's what I have -

This is between Hot and Neutral:

This is between hot and ground:

And I have 0v between Neutral and ground. Common theory is go after the GFCI in the bathroom, is there any final testing there I should do, or just replace it for the heck of it?

 

[Bones]

What is the voltage coming into the camper at the breaker?

 

[Rhyph]

what is the voltage coming into the camper at the breaker?

L 1 / L 2: 236

L1 / N: 118
L2 / N: 117

Checked inside main interior breaker panel, and outside at pedestal.

 

[Bones]

L 1 / L 2: 236

L1 / N: 118
L2 / N: 117

Checked inside main interior breaker panel, and outside at pedestal.

Now check voltage on that particular breaker then work your way up until you find the problem. Also check the lines behind that outlet too before you dig too deep into the issue to rule out the outlet being bad

 

[Rhyph]

Re: By (Popular?) Demand - Our Ownership Story [Updated Defect List]

I gave up on chasing the electrical, it's going to the dealer today to try and address a few of the top items on our list between our trips, hopefully the first three which are most concerning. So, here's a refreshed list of our current and on-going problems. We can deal with the 4th since that's just a nuisance and we will not be using the convection over on this trip at all, thanks to the Disney Dining Plan.

Do you ever reach a point where a demand to just replace the trailer is warranted? Some on here have already suggested it. Now that we've figured out that it's eating tires at our expense so far, I wonder what it takes to make them get serious on such a request? I still can't seem to get a high level executive type contact within Heartland properly engaged in the seriousness of these issues. The manager who contacted me was nice and all, but he will not return my second call in or direct emails and I'm once again feeling the cold shoulder of Heartland.

Defect Items in Priority Order:

1. Rear living room window is severely leaking

a. Leaking in to wall, water exits lower right/left corners, floods counter tops​

b. Leaking in center top of window, dripping hits back of TV​

c. Right rear wall board showing water damage, surface/finish bubbling and wrinkling​

2. Outlet in large, right living room slide near dinette is inoperable

a. Outlet replaced, issue is upstream in wiring somewhere​

3. Brand new (and previous tires) showing excessive shoulder wear and rubber shaving accumulation building up in wheel well areas, down sides of trailer

a. OE Tires had less than 4000 miles at point of failure​

b. New $1600 Goodyear G614’s with 1500 miles showing shoulder burnout and wear​

c. Trailer has always looked like it tows down the road at an angle​

4. Hydraulic pump motor is stalling during use

a. When retracting slides or retracting jacks​

5. Microwave/Convection oven, burning electrical smell when used in convection mode, microwave no longer heats food normally

6. Kitchen slide out is sagging in center

7. Shower surround is cracked

8. Bathroom sink drain leaking

9. Sub-flooring in bedroom has uneven spots towards front and rear of room

10. Black tank valve sticking, does not close all the way (maybe doesn't open all the way?)

11. Tank sensors for black and grey 2 mis-read

a. Black always full immediately after toilet flush post dump and tank flush​

b. Grey 2 always stuck at 1/3 full​

12. Very strong propane smell coming from front facing compartment

13. Rear living room window MCD night shade has zero tension – unravels

14. Right rear living room slide MCD night shade has little-no tension

15. Right rear living room upper cabinet hinges separated

16. LED strip under awning going dim, has segments going bad, flickering

 

[buddyboy]

Re: By (Popular?) Demand - Our Ownership Story [Updated Defect List]

let me ask a question regarding one of your issues - was your trailer aligned and the wheels balanced when you put the Goodyear tires on?

And we never trust holding tank sensors, never found any that read properly in our boats or trailers. We simply never rely on them.

 

[danemayer]

Re: By (Popular?) Demand - Our Ownership Story [Updated Defect List]

it's going to the dealer today to try and address a few of the top items on our list between our trips, hopefully the first three which are most concerning.

Maybe it's time to have the dealer fix the entire list of problems even if it means cancelling some trips. And when you go to pick up the trailer, arrange to do a walk through with the service writer to make sure everything's been addressed. If they misunderstand one of your complaints, or don't completely fix it, the best time to deal with that is before leaving the lot.

Btw, tire wear is not always a factory defect. It can be, but it's often due to other issues.

"Trailer has always looked like it tows down the road at an angle"

Your trailer probably came with Correct Track installed so that axle tracking can be adjusted to compensate for how the trailer is loaded. Or maybe an axle has been bent by hitting a deep pothole at 70 mph, or by running up a curb. In any case, watching two sets of tires deteriorate is an expensive approach.

Time to get all of these problems fixed.

 

[Rhyph]

Re: By (Popular?) Demand - Our Ownership Story [Updated Defect List]

let me ask a question regarding one of your issues - was your trailer aligned and the wheels balanced when you put the Goodyear tires on?

And we never trust holding tank sensors, never found any that read properly in our boats or trailers. We simply never rely on them.

Not to make you go back and read the various postings we've made in our saga, but the original tire failures left us sitting on the side of the road, it was a roadside replacement due two tire failures. No facilities to align the trailer in a parking lot properly after a full-day saga of being stranded. There is quite obviously something wrong alignment or frame-wise, has been since day one and I'm now convinced of that since we're eating round two of now very expensive tires. This is not a tire balance issue, that does not cause you to 'shave' the shoulders off your tires and leave rubber dust everywhere.

I get that the sensors won't be super accurate as well. But I've also never had sensors this grossly out of whack or consistently malfunction on anything we've owned.

So far I can compare our ownership experience of this Heartland to our now second worse ownership experience, and really only by the fact that it had a catastrophic structure failure. It was a 2004 Fleetwood Prowler Regal 345 RLTS 5th wheel (non AX6). This was a near entry level product put out by Fleetwood at that time. We owned and used it for a couple more years after the structure failure, and it is now happily being enjoyed by its second owners to date since we sold it to them. This Heartland has far, far surpassed the issues we had with the Prowler. Even the Prowler could give somewhat normal/typical sensor readings out of it's tanks. The Prowler had only one major issue, which was a frame separation in the sidewall and front superstructure while towing. Guess who paid to fix that problem with little fuss raised, after it was out of warranty by almost 4 years? You can guess, and I will give you a clue and tell you it wasn't me and it sure as heck wasn't Lippert. I'm not getting the sense out of Heartland today, they'd be there to back me should something catastrophic and impossible for me to cause as damage happen later down the road when I'm already having this much trouble, now.

In my mind and in order of ownership -

Heartland Big Horn, luxury product, see issues
American Tradition, few minor new ownership issues, otherwise problem free
Fleetwood Prowler 5vr, entry level product, (traded size for $) pretty much problem free minus structure failure
Coachmen Sportscoach DP, mostly problem free
Fleetwood Wilderness 5vr, smaller mid-level product, problem free
Winnebago Elandan, mostly problem free
Coleman Sequoia Pop-Up, problem free

As we're seeking to figure out where to go with all this, we're looking at other brands, models and such. Saw a really great looking new Landmark Newport the other day that we kinda fell in love with. Not sure if it's crazy for us to pursue another Heartland product at this point. We don't see many other contenders around that price/feature mix with that floor plan.

 

[TravelTiger]

#12 would be #1! That is very unsafe. I would not be going anywhere until that was resolved!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[buddyboy]

Re: By (Popular?) Demand - Our Ownership Story [Updated Defect List]

We also had roadside tire replacements, but had our trailer aligned as quickly as we could. As to the sensors, our black tanks have always not been even close to accurate and the gray only occasionally. We even had a new larger black holding tank and sensor system put on one of our boats and the sensor never reported accurately.

I agree with Dan - we'd cancel what we needed to before we pulled a trailer with the issues you've recited. Propane leak is a time bomb when coupled especially with the burning smell you've noticed when using your microwave convection oven and the electrical problems you've stated.

Martha

 

[Rhyph]

Re: By (Popular?) Demand - Our Ownership Story [Updated Defect List]

Well it's at the dealer. They have a month to get through what they can. We had a good long discussion and walk through about everything on the list. If they can't get through everything, we will have to pick it up and bring it back and they'll have another month with it, then we go out for 5 weeks in it and so on.

We can't just not use it, some of you may have the luxury of saying that, but unfortunately we're not a retired couple yet with hoards of cash, although we do have our S&B to fall back on. We've suffered 9+ months of our ownership out of 13 months in the shop and we're quickly finding out that we're enjoying part-timing in it otherwise. Trips are booked and payed for; if you've ever done Disney for more than 10 days, then you know what non-refundable costs are at stake. Through a combination of life style and work choices, we are required to travel. It's looking more and more like 50% of the time out of the year if our current trend holds. We can't just dump what has become our second house off for months on end and meet the obligations we are required to otherwise. So we will have to deal with this stuff in between even though it's not ideal. Are we driving around with a bomb on our hands, maybe?

The propane issue is dealt with as easy as leaving it shut off. We don't use it in general, not even for hot water since the electric keeps up with our needs well. Everything else we grill since we take our Big Green Egg mini-max with us, cook in the convection oven of electrical burning, and use a single burner induction cook top. We're spoiled since we have induction in the S&B, wish we had it in the 5vr. Another reason we're eyeballing that Landmark. If I could go propane free, I'd do it in a heart beat. Give me heat pumps w/ elec backup, induction and no gas, we'd be set.

 

[buddyboy]

Re: By (Popular?) Demand - Our Ownership Story [Updated Defect List]

Hoards of cash when you're a retired person? Not likely unless you've hit the lottery.

Can understand the desire not to lose amounts paid at Disney for sure - those arrangements are not easy to make or cancel for sure. We've lost deposits and paid for time at campgrounds before due to weather or health problems. We had to recently cancel a long trip to the western U.S. when we had both truck and camper problems, losing deposits again. But we took those losses rather than take risks on causing further damage to our property. It was worth it to us to give the truck and camper repair people the time to do the corrections correctly rather than forcing them to an abbreviated time frame.

Just our thoughts.