A New Truck to pull my new Landmark?

jayc

Texas-South Chapter Leaders
I know that I'm going to have to upgrade my truck to a one ton dually when I buy my "last truck and trailer". I'm seriously considering a Landmark and was wondering how well they are being pulled by you owners out there and what you're using. I would like to stick with something thats going to give me decent mileage, so I'd like to get the 3.73 rear end ratio if possible? Is anyone towing with one of these?

I know that none of the one tons available today will safely pull the Monticello and can't convince my wife to let me buy an MDT, although my grandsons would love riding in PePaw's Freightliner!

Thanks for any help you can give.
 

Tom of Ypsi

Well-known member
jayc,

You do not need to get a MDT for the Monticello, all you would need is the F-450 or 550. Just get it all tricked out and you have the price of a MDT. You can get a pickup bed for them also at a much lesser cost.
I went with the 4:10 rear end because I will be towing all over the country. The 4:10 gives you that lower end torque that is needed for mountains and hills. The mileage is only 1-2 mpg difference. You could also go with the tow boss package with the Ford, that has a 4:30 rear and gives you that much more towing powerand I have heard another 1 mpg loss.
I also went with the dually because of the stability, the size of the trailer and weight we wanted and just wanted to make sure I have enough truck.
 

jayc

Texas-South Chapter Leaders
Tom,

Thanks for the response. This is exactly what I am looking for, someone that pulls a Landmark so I can get real-world experience.

Like you said, once you outfit a Ford F-450/550 with the towing bed, and other bells and whistles, I would spend as much as I would on an MDT. I realize that there is still the option of buying a used HDT and converting it, but my wife wouldn't ride in it.
 

bcfast

bcfast
The big problem there is (and this will step on some toes), although the F450-550 is enough truck to pull the trailer, the engine will leave you less than thrilled. Buy an MDT with a Cummins in it...a straight-6, like a real truck. More power, more economy, less cost of operation, fewer moving parts. More than just my opinion: fact.
 

jayc

Texas-South Chapter Leaders
I've got to agree with you on the reliability of the Cummins engine, but I really don't want an MDT (well I do) but the wife wants a regular pickup truck or maybe a pickup truck with a hauler bed. As you know, when Momma's not happy, then NOBODY's happy.

I have noticed the same problem with both the Ford F450-550 and the GM 4500-5500. They both have the same engine in them that comes in the 3/4 ton and 1 ton truck. It seems to me that while the 6.0 and 6.6 diesels are fine pullers in the smaller trucks, something a little larger and more powerful should be available as an option at least.
 

bcfast

bcfast
I see that you're from TX....try buying a Mexican Dodge!! They have a BIG ram down there...like an F550-650 only it looks like the Ram...just bigger!

See if you can talk the boss into an F650, that way you can get the 5.9 Cummins engine like the Dodge pickup. You can order any wheelbase you want and just slap a dually bed on it! How about air ride and air seats!? Sweet!! The GMC TopKicks etc are like big pickups, but the CAT 3126 will only go 300hp, and I never found anyone willing to 'improve' its performance. "Wont handle it" they said. Heck, I've never owned a Ram with so little power as only 300!! LOL Happy truck hunting.
 

GregH

Member
Advice please on trailer and truck combination

I just saw the Monticello at our local dealership and am ready to make it happen. We saw the Mount Rushmore about a month ago and waited until they received the Monticello to make our choice. My plan is to buy a Ford 350 Crew Cab 4x4 DRW with the TowBoss option (4.3 rear end). According to the literature it will handle over 18k pounds of fifth wheel.

We are moving up from a Coleman pop-up, so our fifth wheel experience is nil. With all the talk about huge trucks to pull the Monticello, can anyone give me advice if I am taking on too big of a rig without enough truck?
 

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bcfast

bcfast
I fear you would be in big trouble with the Montecello, both physically and legally. The F350 is going to have a GVW of 18k. That means the truck + trailer + load = 18k. If the GVW printed on the sticker on the side of the trailer reads 18k, you're going to be stuck on the side of the road in Ohio, waiting for someone with a CDL to come and drive your rig to KY!! Im not kidding about that one, I know someone that got that treatment. From a safety standpoint, you'd be at the max limit of the truck....not good. Also, from a power standpoint, you'd be a right-lane obstacle on a hill with that little Powerstroke...also not fun. I haven't yet mentioned that combo's inability to stop. Go for an FL70 with air ride, air brakes, jake brake and a Cummins. Better still, for the safety of all others on the road (since you said you dont have the 5er experience), go thru the training and get your CDL license. You'll be a better driver with or without the rig! Congrats on your choice of coach...I'm green with envy!

Brian
 

dwangler

Member
I beg to disagree with you bc, but the GCWR for the F-350 is well over 18k, in fact staight from the owners manual is 23500lbs. I own an 05 F-250 SD 6.0L Powerstroke and its GVWR is 23000 which should be well within the requirements necessary to pull any of the Landmark Models which none of GVWR exceeds 16000. I currently pull a Hitchiker at a loaded weight of roughly 13000 with my Ford F 250, granted I have added a Banks 6 Gun Bundle which includes their Monster Exhaust, and because I also have a 60 gall Aux Tank I have added Air Bags. With the integrated brake controller, it pulls wonderfully and I get around 15 mpg, at normal highway speeds.
 

Tom of Ypsi

Well-known member
dwangler, with the Landmarks brochure in front of me I do have to disagree with your GVWR on the Monticello. The brochure shows 18,000 lbs with estimated dry weight of 12,900 and estimated hitch weight of 2,400. I would go with something bigger than a 1 ton for the Monticello just to be on the safe side.
 

jayc

Texas-South Chapter Leaders
We looked a Chevy Kodiak 4500 over the weenend. The truck is pretty well equipped mechanically, but the wife didn't like the big step to climb up into the truck. I explained to her that different aftermarket companies can put different steps on the truck, making it easier for her to get in.

I'm going to look at the Chevy website to see the towing limits of this truck with different axle ratios to see if I can still pull the Landmark with a higher rear end, maybe a 4.30 like the Ford Tow Boss?
 

nemo45

Well-known member
Guys,

Let me into to this forray. You are not talking about the same thing with GCWR and GVWR. The GCWR would be the total weight of the truck and the unit being towed or Groos Combined Weight Rating. The GVWR is the weight of the truck and anything in it, passengers, fuel etc. including the pin weight or hitch weight of the towed vehicle or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. For instance I have a new 3500 Dodge Ram Quad Cab CTD SRW, it has a GVWR of 9900# which means the total weight of the vehicle can be 9900# loaded including pin weight of the unit towed. It has a towing capacity of 14250# and a GCWR of 21000# because I have a 3.73 rear end. If it was a 4.10 rear end its 16250# and 23000# respectively. As you can see you cannot tow 18000# with either of these vehicles. But I don't see how a fifth wheel with a dry weight of 12900# could get that heavy loaded. Even if you add 2500#, its 15400#. You also have to worry about the pin weight so you don't exceed the GVWR. I know you're interested in Fords here, just using the Dodge as an example. I see by my signature that I should add I traded my Hemi and the new truck just came in last Saturday.
 
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jayc

Texas-South Chapter Leaders
nemo45 said:
Guys,

Let me into to this forray. You are not talking about the same thing with GCWR and GVWR. The GCWR would be the total weight of the truck and the unit being towed or Groos Combined Weight Rating. The GVWR is the weight of the truck and anything in it, passengers, fuel etc. including the pin weight or hitch weight of the towed vehicle or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating. For instance I have a new 3500 Dodge Ram Quad Cab CTD SRW, it has a GVWR of 9900# which means the total weight of the vehicle can be 9900# loaded including pin weight of the unit towed. It has a towing capacity of 14250# and a GCWR of 21000# because I have a 3.73 rear end. If it was a 4.10 rear end its 16250# and 23000# respectively. As you can see you cannot tow 18000# with either of these vehicles. But I don't see how a fifth wheel with a dry weight of 12900# could get that heavy loaded. Even if you add 2500#, its 15400#. You also have to worry about the pin weight so you don't exceed the GVWR. I know you're interested in Fords here, just using the Dodge as an example. I see by my signature that I should add I traded my Hemi and the new truck just came in last Saturday.
You are exactly right, and this is where the confusion begins. Do the math on this, if you take your truck, load the truck to it's limit of 9900#, subtract that from the 21,000#, leaving a difference of 11,100#. What happened to 14,250? Do we go by GCWR or towing capacity? This is true of all truck manufacturers, so like you, I'm not singling out any one make.

Thanks for the input.
 

nemo45

Well-known member
The weight is in the pinweight or part of the payload, which is part of the 9900# GVWR which you are, I suppose, hauling not actually towing, but is included in the towing capacity.
 

Gary F

Well-known member
Most if not all truck manufactures list higher then average payload capacities. You must read the fine print however. The truck they reference usually a two wheel drive, manual trans regular cab with very few options. A light tow vehicle can provide more payload.

By the time you add all the bells and whistles including heavier diesel motor and 4WD drive train along with the crew cab or extended cab, you eat up the available payload and bump up against the GVW.



Make sense?



 

jayc

Texas-South Chapter Leaders
Your explanation makes sense Gary, but what doesn't make sense is the manufacturers being so sleazy that they deceive the public when they are only trying to buy a truck that is heavy enough or will tow enough to get them and their trailer safely down the road.


Maybe some lawyer somewhere will see these threads and file a class action lawsuit against all of the "Big Three" automakers. Maybe the loss of massive amounts of money will make them see the light, but I really don't think so. We should all be very angry for the possibly dangerous rigs that are out there right now, running around overloaded when the buyers believed what they were told by the salesmen and the factories.
 

Gary F

Well-known member
I fully agree - Buyer beware. This is why i went from a crew cab F250 to a C/C F350. I didn't do my homework correctly (GVW).
My traded F250 C/C 4WD had a GVW of 8800#. Truck weight with just me and full load of fuel was 7450# which left me with avail payload of 1300# :eek:

My single wheel F350 has a 9900# GVW which allows me some breathing room for cargo or 2300# fiver pin weight.
 

GregH

Member
There is a good publication on the Ford website called "Things To Know About Weights" which I found quite informative. Taking the publication and sitting with my local Landmark dealer, we figured out the alternatives. In the end, we have moved away from the Monticello and have focused on the Mount Rushmore. I have just purchased my truck and with a GVWR of 11,500, payload of 4,000, GCWR of 23,000, and 15,400 maximum loaded trailer weight, I should not have a problem towing the Mount Rushmore with a dry weight of 12,800 and a hitch weight of 2,400.
 

Tom of Ypsi

Well-known member
Congratulations, Nice truck. Have not had any problems with mine at all wish I could say the same about my trailer.
 

nemo45

Well-known member
Gary F said:
Most if not all truck manufactures list higher then average payload capacities. You must read the fine print however. The truck they reference usually a two wheel drive, manual trans regular cab with very few options. A light tow vehicle can provide more payload.

By the time you add all the bells and whistles including heavier diesel motor and 4WD drive train along with the crew cab or extended cab, you eat up the available payload and bump up against the GVW.



Make sense?
Gary,
It does make sense, except that in Dodges towing guide which is on their website you can add those things in before it figures the payload, GVWR and GCWR. There must be a way to do it for Ford and Chevy also. I won't go by advertisements and fliers or salesmen for that matter. Its best to do the research yourself.
 
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