Fuel Additives for Diesels

ricatic

Well-known member
At least with the new 11 and up Fords, even a slightly contaminated fuel will lead you down the path of sorrow and dismay.


Duane...words spoken like they were written by Shakespeare...The 2011/2012 Fords use a delicate Bosch CP4 HP Fuel Pump...I own the voice of experience on this topic...the bill for the repairs was $10,033.00. When the HPFP dies, it takes the entire system with it. Ford does not intend to warranty any of these failures if at all possible. Ford has published information regarding fuel quality, Cetane numbers and fuel lubricity. Unfortunately, the quality standards for US fuel are well below the recommended quality needed for long pump life. MY HPFP went in 35000 miles with only 1180 hours on the engine. Warranty was denied.

Ford sells a Cetane/ Lubricity additive. The part number is PM22A. It is available in 20 ounce bottles and gallon containers. The part number for the gallon container is PM22AGAL. Funny thing...they never tell you when you buy the truck that the HPFP needs a crutch to survive...Shame on Ford

Regards
 

lwmcguir

Well-known member
This is what my dealer covered with me. Going to be interesting to see how the engines perform over the long haul. I know quite a few folks here that are getting up in the 30-50 K range on the odometer. Sure plan on getting a lot more than that.
 

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scotty

Well-known member
Do these additives do anything to preserve the fuel like the stabil products for gas. I am replacing my gas tank with a transfer flow fifty gallon tank and I can see the fuel sitting in the tank longer when I am not actually traveling. I know with my gas powered stuff (e.g., boat, expedition) if I'm not careful I will get a varnishing effect unless I treat the gas or run the engine frequently. Is the same thing true for diesels?

I 've started driving our second car and parking the Dodge to save on fuel cost. I added Sta-bile for Diesel, Wally World carries it and hopefully that will work as I plan to let the truck set for roughly a year. It also has 2 stroke TWC 3 @ a ratio of 16 ounces to 34 gallons of diesel and 8 ounces of Diesel Kleen.
 

pegmikef

Well-known member
Thanks Scotty. I;m going to try it. Whenever I buy a can of gas I automatically add the Stabil stuff, so I don't have to try to remember whether or not I added it to the tractor, edger, generators or whatever. So now I'll do the same thing with the diesel.
 

porthole

Retired
Duane...words spoken like they were written by Shakespeare..

Nothing special here, wrote it with you in mind.

also has 2 stroke TWC 3 @ a ratio of 16 ounces to 34 gallons of diesel and 8 ounces of Diesel Kleen.

Thanks Scotty. I;m going to try it. Whenever I buy a can of gas I automatically add the Stabil stuff, so I don't have to try to remember whether or not I added it to the tractor, edger, generators or whatever. So now I'll do the same thing with the diesel.

DON'T add the TWC to your 2011 Ford!

also has 2 stroke TWC 3 @ a ratio of 16 ounces to 34 gallons of diesel and 8 ounces of Diesel Kleen.
 

ricatic

Well-known member
This is what my dealer covered with me. Going to be interesting to see how the engines perform over the long haul. I know quite a few folks here that are getting up in the 30-50 K range on the odometer. Sure plan on getting a lot more than that.

Look at the publishing date on that document...1-20-2010...I had 20,000 miles on mine by that time. That form was added to the delivery package because Ford was aware of the poor fuel quality in the USA. Your signature on that form is just another tool to be used by Ford to eliminate as many fuel system related warranty claims as possible. One of the 6.7 design engineers posted a long commentary on FTE spelling out all the bad things that can happen with the substandard US fuel.

I have posed this question before...If the salesman at the Ford dealership told a potential buyer all the cautionary advice provided by Ford about potential problems with the fuel injection system and then told this potential buyer that he needed to add the PM22A additive to every tankful of fuel for reliability insurance, how many of these potential buyers would actually buy the truck???? I speculate "not many".

With that said, until GM comes out with their new HD truck with a larger cab or Dodge makes it's way over to DEF injection on it's pickup trucks, I will continue to drive my Ford...adding the reliability insurance, PM22A to each tankful. I am hoping I can trade next Fall for a "2013 something other than Ford"

Shame on Ford

Regards
 

lwmcguir

Well-known member
Look at the publishing date on that document...1-20-2010...I had 20,000 miles on mine by that time. That form was added to the delivery package because Ford was aware of the poor fuel quality in the USA. Your signature on that form is just another tool to be used by Ford to eliminate as many fuel system related warranty claims as possible. One of the 6.7 design engineers posted a long commentary on FTE spelling out all the bad things that can happen with the substandard US fuel.

I have posed this question before...If the salesman at the Ford dealership told a potential buyer all the cautionary advice provided by Ford about potential problems with the fuel injection system and then told this potential buyer that he needed to add the PM22A additive to every tankful of fuel for reliability insurance, how many of these potential buyers would actually buy the truck???? I speculate "not many".

With that said, until GM comes out with their new HD truck with a larger cab or Dodge makes it's way over to DEF injection on it's pickup trucks, I will continue to drive my Ford...adding the reliability insurance, PM22A to each tankful. I am hoping I can trade next Fall for a "2013 something other than Ford"

Shame on Ford

Regards

We live in an area where this is a good mix of Ford, Chevy, and Dodge HD trucks. There are about the same amount in the shop on any given week. So far there are hundreds of thousands of 6.7's on the road and very few engine issues. I think the track record so far speaks for the quality of the engine without any added lubricity agents at the tank. Adding the Ford additive may make sense but is it really necessary? Don't know but will find out. Our Ford extended warranty does cover the fuel pump per the Dealer here. Be curious as to what yours is telling you?

All our farm/ranch fuel comes from Cenex where they are very aware of the lubricity needs for the new equipment and old as well. We haven't had any issues with any of the disel engines since going to ULS fuel. The local Cenex fuel is bio fuel in that they used enough to make the lubricity targets. On the road we always stick with name brand fueling stations just to be sure. Going to a discount store to get you Diesel filled up is taking quite risk. If you have been to a termnial you will see the fuel comes into one large tank. The difference when the tanker comes to get a load is the additives. This goes for diesel and unleaded alike. I personally don't think Ford has mislead anyone. Re read the document, it don't say you have to add anything. I wasnt ask to sign anything for the waranty, they just included the page as a hand out.
 

pegmikef

Well-known member
The following is a quote from the Ford document LWMCGUIR posted earlier in this thread. Does anybody have any experience using this product? Especially the part about improving fuel economy.

"Diesel fuel quality is critical for reliable engine operation. Motorcraft® Cetane Booster & Performance Improver, PM-22-A (U.S.) / PM-22-B
(Canada) can be added to improve fuel economy, starting ability, and reduce engine wear."
 

wingfoot

Well-known member
Unless I missed it...no one has mentioned Lucas Diesel Additive. I have used both Diesel Kleen and Lucas and I think Lucas does a little better job IMHO. Anyone else had any experience with Lucas?
 

JohnDar

Prolifically Gabby Member
Unless I missed it...no one has mentioned Lucas Diesel Additive. I have used both Diesel Kleen and Lucas and I think Lucas does a little better job IMHO. Anyone else had any experience with Lucas?

Not retailed in my zip code area. DieselKleen is.
 

bdb2047

Well-known member
I use the Motorcraft additive.Used it a6 .0 and the 6.7 since new. I do not believe it does anything for milage or added performence.I think anything to improve ULSD is a plus.It seams the quality of USLD,not only water,is a problem.
 

ncc1701e

Well-known member
Well, I did it and bought the truck. Right now I'm using the Ford PM23A while in Iowa. I've bought some Diesel Kleen form Walmart and plant to switch once back down south just to compare.
 

ricatic

Well-known member
We live in an area where this is a good mix of Ford, Chevy, and Dodge HD trucks. There are about the same amount in the shop on any given week. So far there are hundreds of thousands of 6.7's on the road and very few engine issues. I think the track record so far speaks for the quality of the engine without any added lubricity agents at the tank. Adding the Ford additive may make sense but is it really necessary? Don't know but will find out. Our Ford extended warranty does cover the fuel pump per the Dealer here. Be curious as to what yours is telling you?

All our farm/ranch fuel comes from Cenex where they are very aware of the lubricity needs for the new equipment and old as well. We haven't had any issues with any of the disel engines since going to ULS fuel. The local Cenex fuel is bio fuel in that they used enough to make the lubricity targets. On the road we always stick with name brand fueling stations just to be sure. Going to a discount store to get you Diesel filled up is taking quite risk. If you have been to a termnial you will see the fuel comes into one large tank. The difference when the tanker comes to get a load is the additives. This goes for diesel and unleaded alike. I personally don't think Ford has mislead anyone. Re read the document, it don't say you have to add anything. I wasnt ask to sign anything for the waranty, they just included the page as a hand out.

Your local fuel suppliers very well could be producing fuel with sufficient lubricity. The biodiesel blends do have a better scar rating. But...the first thing out of the first dealers mouth when they went down the no warranty road was "did you run any biodiesel?". Ford's own 6.7 development engineer has posted his concerns about biodiesel. His musings can be found in the 6.7 Tech folder at Ford Truck Enthusiasts.

If only using "name brand fueling stations just to be sure" was a viable preventative measure against bad fuel/poor lubricity fuel, I would have never had my HPFP failure. I do not ever look for "cheap fuel". I am well aware of terminal activity. I delivered fuel for several years.

The document we have been discussing clearly has signature lines on it for both the purchase and the dealership. It is supposed to be presented for signature after it has been reviewed at the PDI. The document was introduced nearly a year after the first 6.7 Ford's hit the dealerships. This was not coincidental. It is a deliberate move by Ford to make warranty denial easier for them. BTDT. Of course they do not mandate the additive. Like a demand for using only Ford/Motorcraft filters and lubricants, the Moss-Magnuson act would require Ford to provide the PM22A additive at no cost.

I am well aware of how many 6.7 trucks Ford has sold. For over a year, I mixed the Ford Kool-Aid and fed it to all who would listen. The engine has been quite solid to date. The issue I have is simple. Proper maintenance, on Ford's schedule and always performed at an Authorized FOMOCO Dealer did not provide an acceptable service life for my HPFP and injection system. My failed HPFP has been inspected by 3 automotive engineers. One is a HPFI systems specialist for Detroit Diesel. The unanimous decision is "it broke due to the substandard diesel fuel available in the USA. Low lubricity is the likely cause. No water damage is noticed". The DD engineer said he has seen hundreds of Bosch HPFP's with similar failures.

To not be a bit concerned about the reliability of the Bosch CP4.2 HPFP currently being used by Ford is a bit like whistling past the cemetery. The experts have spoken. The diesel fuel in the USA is of poor quality. Until that changes, running a Cetane Booster/Lubricity enhancer just makes sense...call it relatively cheap insurance...especially since the Ford warranty is a joke

Regards
 

scotty

Well-known member
Spot on and from what all I've read the other two's warranties are about just as solid as Fords. They will all do everything they can to deny warrant.
 

lwmcguir

Well-known member
I don't disagree about using an additive that has a proven track record in my Truck. It will be interesting to see where this goes with many thousands of 6.7's hitting the road every week. It is certainly bad to have been involved in a serious failure and not coming out as you expect. I have always had good results with Ford's extended warranty. Most of the work was on the 6.0 and included the EGC cooler and oil cooler as well as a couple of injectors. They took excellent care of me for those. I expect the same if the fuel pump fails. Given the concern at this time it would make sense to use the Ford additive. In the past when we found the coolant breakdown issues were to blame for the 6.0 issues it was stupid not to change it at 50k and or installa filter as well.

If anyone else has a fuel related problem on this forum it will be interesting to hear how they come out.
 

porthole

Retired
Ric's dilemmas are quite the case. I am still surprised that fomoco didn't step up early, fix the truck and then take all the parts back to engineering. For such a rare failure (so far) that could have so far reaching effects it is kind of surprising. Imagine the cost if somehow this turned into a potential emission component failure. The recall cost will be astronomical.

I'm not one to be forced to use additives, certain oils or filters just to maintain my warranty status. But, Motor-craft filters and additives are available online for the same price or less as other branded items.
SO for me I'll be using the branded product, except for the oil.

I already use a diesel additive, so buying the fomoco stuff is just a different avenue.
 

ricatic

Well-known member
I don't disagree about using an additive that has a proven track record in my Truck. It will be interesting to see where this goes with many thousands of 6.7's hitting the road every week. It is certainly bad to have been involved in a serious failure and not coming out as you expect. I have always had good results with Ford's extended warranty. Most of the work was on the 6.0 and included the EGC cooler and oil cooler as well as a couple of injectors. They took excellent care of me for those. I expect the same if the fuel pump fails. Given the concern at this time it would make sense to use the Ford additive. In the past when we found the coolant breakdown issues were to blame for the 6.0 issues it was stupid not to change it at 50k and or installa filter as well.

If anyone else has a fuel related problem on this forum it will be interesting to hear how they come out.

I have a serious question. Are you implying that the purchase of an extended warranty will ensure that a similar warranty repair situation to mine will be covered by the extended plan after Ford refuses warranty coverage during the 5 year/100,000 mile base warranty?

Duane,

I have all the parts from my Ford debacle except the fuel injectors. I have disassembled the HPFP. It has been examined by experts. You are so right, Ford could learn a lot about their pump and fuel system by inspecting the parts. They would quickly see that if they continue down the road of blaming water in the fuel for the failure and then the denial of warranty coverage, a major revolt by the insurance company is in the making. They would see the handwriting on the wall that eventually the owners of these trucks that are getting hosed by Ford are going to fully understand how bad they are getting take to the cleaners. I was going to post the pictures of my failed pump for all to see. I changed my mind because Ford would get a free look at them as well. If Ford wants to see them, they need to come up with over $10,000.00.

The NHTSA has dragged Ford and GM into their ongoing Bosch CP4 HPFP engineering review. This is a very important step that often leads to recall. The wheels of the bureaucracy turn slowly but I am hopeful that there will be justice.

Regards
 

ncc1701e

Well-known member
When I started this thread I was hoping for a little education since the only experience with a diesel before was with a small utility tractor for my yard work. I'm getting so much more from reading every one's experiences. Of course, you guys are scaring the s**t out of me on being able to maintain this darn thing I bought. Will one of you kindly explain "regeneration" and "cleaning exhaust filter". I've seen "regeneration" mentioned and the other showed up on the dash while driving the last couple of days. The alarm cleared almost as fast as it came on. What little I've found so far suggest the "cleaning exhaust filter" as a normal function so long as it does not stay on. Is this correct?
 

JohnDar

Prolifically Gabby Member
When I started this thread I was hoping for a little education since the only experience with a diesel before was with a small utility tractor for my yard work. I'm getting so much more from reading every one's experiences. Of course, you guys are scaring the s**t out of me on being able to maintain this darn thing I bought. Will one of you kindly explain "regeneration" and "cleaning exhaust filter". I've seen "regeneration" mentioned and the other showed up on the dash while driving the last couple of days. The alarm cleared almost as fast as it came on. What little I've found so far suggest the "cleaning exhaust filter" as a normal function so long as it does not stay on. Is this correct?

As I understand it, Regeneration is when the vehicle computer determines the Diesel Particulate Filter needs to be be cleaned. It then cleans it by burning fuel in it, as you drive. Some vehicles will indicate this via a light or a message, some don't. My 2009 GMC does not have an indicator to show it's in Regen. With almost 29000 miles on it, I'm sure it's had to do it, but I don't know when it did.
 
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