Here is why we bought an EMS

MCTalley

Well-known member
When we pulled into the first spot at the campground we are staying in currently and plugged in our AC power, our hard-wired Progressive 50 Amp EMS complained very loudly and refused to allow power into the coach. I was never sure if it was our 30 Amp dogleg or the pedestal outlet. But our neighbor came out and pointed out that every other spot was 50 amp and the empty slot next door was a 50, so we moved and haven't had any issues here.

Tonight, we saw a Class C motorhome pull into the slot next to us (that we had problems with). I advised the lady driving the coach to hook up their AC cord before setting up to make sure there were no problems. When she plugged it in, something popped inside the coach. Her son and grandchildren were inside and the children indicated that something was smoking.

The son and I found that what was later determined to be the 120/12V converter had essentially shorted out and was smoldering. We grabbed the fire extinguisher and finally got the smoldering components put out. Val kept the children busy in our trailer while we aired out the motorhome.

I can't say for sure that the converter in their motor home was just defective and that was its time to go or what, but I'm sure glad our EMS suggested we move to another site. We did measure the pedestal outlet with my digital meter and it was showing 122 VAC between ground and one leg. The other leg showed a couple of volts to ground. I never did see what error my EMS threw when we had hooked up to it.

They left with thanks that I was able to help out in what could have been a terrible situation and now are much more familiar with how to operate their fire extinguisher. Fortunately, they have family in town and were heading there to spend the night.
 

4ever

Well-known member
Good that everyone is OK and that you were there to assist. Also, good to have the EMS.
 

Greengas

Well-known member
My Landmark came with a built in surge suppressor/transfer switch. Is this the same thing as the EMS and if not can I add it to my coach?
 

Lou_and_Bette

Well-known member
advised the lady driving the coach to hook up their AC cord before setting up to make sure there were no problems.

Exactly why I bought the portable EMS so I could check before doing anything else, like backing in to a site only to find there was a problem with the electric. It has only happened once so far, but checked one site and found there was 230 volts down one leg and 20 or so volts down the other...I'm sure that if I had hooked up with no protection something would have been fried in the rig
 

danemayer

Well-known member
My Landmark came with a built in surge suppressor/transfer switch. Is this the same thing as the EMS and if not can I add it to my coach?

Ronn,

I believe your Landmark has this device which provides some protection. From the spec sheet, it looks to me like it protects against some common problems but doesn't protect against low or high voltage conditions, accidental 240V conditions and a few other things.

You can add a portable or in-line EMS. The contenders are Progressive and TRC. One thing to consider is the warranty. I believe Progressive went to a lifetime warranty in 2012. I don't know if TRC has followed. You can take a look at the manuals here.
 

kakampers

Past Heartland Ambassador
My Landmark came with a built in surge suppressor/transfer switch. Is this the same thing as the EMS and if not can I add it to my coach?

The EMS by Progressive protects against alot more than just surges...It has stopped High Voltage, Low Voltage, High Cycles, open ground situations, and with 50 amp it protects both legs...pretty much everything you can think of electrically. It is a first line of defense as it will NOT allow power to the coach if detects any issues with the power supply.

We have had a hardwired EMS added to both of our Heartlands...will never be without one. When we ordered the Landmark, that was the first thing we bought to install as soon as we received the coach....
 

Theresau

Well-known member
We did the same.

Exactly why I bought the portable EMS so I could check before doing anything else, like backing in to a site only to find there was a problem with the electric. It has only happened once so far, but checked one site and found there was 230 volts down one leg and 20 or so volts down the other...I'm sure that if I had hooked up with no protection something would have been fried in the rig
 

Greengas

Well-known member
Ronn,

I believe your Landmark has this device which provides some protection. From the spec sheet, it looks to me like it protects against some common problems but doesn't protect against low or high voltage conditions, accidental 240V conditions and a few other things.

You can add a portable or in-line EMS. The contenders are Progressive and TRC. One thing to consider is the warranty. I believe Progressive went to a lifetime warranty in 2012. I don't know if TRC has followed. You can take a look at the manuals here.

Dan

so if I add an EMS to my coach I would put it in-line but in front of my current surge suppressor, correct? And doing that would not change the way that my current set up works right? I don't have a generator right now but if I add one in the future I would still want the transfer switch to operate correctly. And how difficult of a job is it to install?
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Ronn,

Some people would say it's not too hard. I think the hardest part is working with #6 wire which people usually describe as a pain - in a cramped space.

I've been lying on my back with my head in the plumbing area doing too many other mods already. I'm happy with the portable EMS.

If you go inline, I think you want to be in between the power cord and the transfer switch.
 

scottyb

Well-known member
If your transfer switch is for a generator, I would install it after the transfer switch and before the panel. That way it will guard against any voltage issues your generator might create if something goes awry. That's where I installed ours. As Dan mentioned, the tight quarters is the biggest obstacle.
 

Greengas

Well-known member
If your transfer switch is for a generator, I would install it after the transfer switch and before the panel. That way it will guard against any voltage issues your generator might create if something goes awry. That's where I installed ours. As Dan mentioned, the tight quarters is the biggest obstacle.

If you put the EMS after the transfer switch it would not protect the switch, right?
 

Greengas

Well-known member
Besides the warranty, what are the differences between the Progressive and TRC EMS? I am looking for a hard wired unit with a remote display.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
I can't make an absolute statement about what anyone should do, but let me share my thought process.

If you put the EMS after the transfer switch, you'll be protected from shore power issues and from generator issues. But certain types of problems would destroy the transfer switch, leaving you without power from the pedestal or the generator until you get it fixed.

If you put the EMS in-line with the shore power connection, before the transfer switch, you're protected from shore power problems. But if the generator does something weird, your integrated surge protector/transfer switch might let the generator damage the coach.

From a risk assessment perspective, to decide what to do, you need to assess the relative likelihood of a coach-damaging shore power event versus a coach-damaging generator event. Since we don't have hard data, we have to guess.

Over the past 3 years I've read many posts where the power pedestal was screwed up. I've also read a number of posts where external power problems were known or suspected to have caused damage.

I don't recall a single post about a generator failure frying things in the coach. If there was one, I missed it.

So I'd be more inclined to trust the generator and protect everything from shore power events, including the transfer switch.
 

boatto5er

Founding VA Chap Ldr (Ret)
I can't make an absolute statement about what anyone should do, but let me share my thought process.

If you put the EMS after the transfer switch, you'll be protected from shore power issues and from generator issues. But certain types of problems would destroy the transfer switch, leaving you without power from the pedestal or the generator until you get it fixed.

If you put the EMS in-line with the shore power connection, before the transfer switch, you're protected from shore power problems. But if the generator does something weird, your integrated surge protector/transfer switch might let the generator damage the coach.

From a risk assessment perspective, to decide what to do, you need to assess the relative likelihood of a coach-damaging shore power event versus a coach-damaging generator event. Since we don't have hard data, we have to guess.

Over the past 3 years I've read many posts where the power pedestal was screwed up. I've also read a number of posts where external power problems were known or suspected to have caused damage.

I don't recall a single post about a generator failure frying things in the coach. If there was one, I missed it.

So I'd be more inclined to trust the generator and protect everything from shore power events, including the transfer switch.

Dan, I'm not familiar with where the Transfer Switch is located (probably different for every model), or how hard it is to get to, but couldn't you keep a spare length of #6 wire on hand (with appropriate size connectors), wire the EMS in after the Transfer Switch and if there was a Transfer Switch problem, disconnect the wiring and temporarily bypass the Transfer Switch by connecting directly to the incoming shore power or generator lead? That way you would also be protected from generator induced problems.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Dan, I'm not familiar with where the Transfer Switch is located (probably different for every model), or how hard it is to get to, but couldn't you keep a spare length of #6 wire on hand (with appropriate size connectors), wire the EMS in after the Transfer Switch and if there was a Transfer Switch problem, disconnect the wiring and temporarily bypass the Transfer Switch by connecting directly to the incoming shore power or generator lead? That way you would also be protected from generator induced problems.

Gus, you've got a point. I know some people have installed the EMS with plugs so they would be able to transfer it to their next coach without rewiring. I'm sure you could add plugs to bypass the transfer switch in case of failure. Just a little more effort and cost.

I think If I ran the generator a lot, or if I were connecting an off-brand generator to the transfer switch, it would be something to consider.
 

wdk450

Well-known member
Here is a new question for this thread:

I use an external generator in my truck bed when needed. My rig came with "generator prep", but I removed all of the front compartment shroud for more storage space (and ease of access when working on the landing gear). When I finally get around to installing the Progressive 50 amp EMS that I bought at Quartzsite this year, should I go ahead and remove the generator transfer switch, as it is a known point of failure???
 

danemayer

Well-known member
should I go ahead and remove the generator transfer switch, as it is a known point of failure???
Bill,

My impression of transfer switch failure posts is that they're generally early-life failures and most are due to poor installation of the wiring. For that matter, out of the many thousands rolling down the road, I think there have been only a handful of failures that weren't caused by external electrical problems. Your progressive EMS will take care of external issues and your 2008 is past the early-life issues.

On the other hand, if you're sure it's never going to be used, it's just another component that could fail, so why not remove it while you're in there.
 

Greengas

Well-known member
Bill,

My impression of transfer switch failure posts is that they're generally early-life failures and most are due to poor installation of the wiring. For that matter, out of the many thousands rolling down the road, I think there have been only a handful of failures that weren't caused by external electrical problems. Your progressive EMS will take care of external issues and your 2008 is past the early-life issues.

On the other hand, if you're sure it's never going to be used, it's just another component that could fail, so why not remove it while you're in there.

Good point. I can remove the transfer switch/surge supressor and replace it with an EMS. Then, if in the future I put in a hard wired genny, I can just wire the transfer switch back in. Should make the wiring easier because all I should have to do is just disconnect one and connect the other. My guess is the wiring set up would be the same. No need to get new wires, etc.
 
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