ATF: Landmark - Staffing (Engineers) Qs

Cyberdave

Well-known member
Tom,

There is a post in a forum that is discussing the Lippert frame issues. A poster is insisting that there are no engineers on staff at for example, Heartland and all engineering is farmed out including the frame design. Can you tell us how the engineering works at Heartland? I find it hard to believe there is at least one engineer reviewing drawings.

The posts centers around the less than perfect welds on Lippert frames and the welds failing and who is responsible for the problem.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Dave,

I wouldn't doubt that someone somewhere on the internet is trolling the idea that Heartland has no engineers. People with hidden agendas often advance arguments that have no merit.

You can easily search on Google to find Scott Lytle, the Director of Engineering at Heartland. You don't need a director where there are no engineers. And putting it simply, new products don't design themselves.
 

Cyberdave

Well-known member
Dan,

We both understand that.. kinda impossible to design otherwise. What I am looking for is who designs and specs out the frame. There is no hidden agenda as far as I can tell. It's basically a question of who does what. I'm looking for a definitive answer on the frame design and engineering. Who does what?
 

danemayer

Well-known member
The posts centers around the less than perfect welds on Lippert frames and the welds failing and who is responsible for the problem.

Dave,

I doubt Heartland will engage in a public discussion of this kind.
 

Cyberdave

Well-known member
Perhaps not but it would clear the waters. It's not the frames that break or bend it's the welds failing.
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
The frames are made by Lippert Components Industries (LCI) in Goshen. I think you should talk with owners of other RV Brands as they also use Lippert frames. You will find they have frame issues also. Many of the frame issues are due to improper use i.e. overloading or improper loading. Keep in mind the RV frames are designed to hold or carry a certain amount of weight. Exceeding this weight limit could cause issues such as broken welds etc. When you only have a 1500 pound weight carrying capacity and exceed that things will happen which could be axle, slides, or frames. Also towing trailers or cars when the frames are not designed for that will cause issues. Keep in mind this is a Heartland forum and you hear about Heartland issues. When you go on other forums you hear about their issues. For example, go on the DRV forum and you will find many of the same issues there.
 

Cyberdave

Well-known member
Jim,
Perhaps you didn't notice that I did not say Heartland had issues or only Heartland had issues. I used the brand as a reference point for claims that RV manufacturers did not have engineers on staff. I posted this here because I felt Tom Montague would reply and he and Andy from Lippert sent emails to me.

Don't be so defensive of the brand that you fail to understand the posts intent.. We own a Landmark as you and many others do. I am not a newbie to RVing and in fact have been full timing for going on six years. I am familiar with C.G. CCC and have come across many overloaded rigs in our travels.I also am familiar with vertical and horizontal and momentum based loading.

To restate my original post. Does Heartland have engineers? Answer. DUH ya think? Does Lippert have engineers? same answer. Now I can go back to the forum that the issue involving a completely different company and present the emailed answers.

Oddly enough, DRV happened to be one of the brands reffed to in the post... And, if you'll think about it and look at the many images of failed welds on Lippert frames. you'd note that often the failures were in part due ro insufficient penetration, too high or low temperature and not just improper loading or stresses.
 

HEH458

Member
Cyberdave, I agree with you completely. I've seen a couple of failures in the pin box area on Lippert frames and have also researched the failures. It seems it is nearly always from the poor welds.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Now I can go back to the forum that the issue involving a completely different company and present the emailed answers.

If their emails didn't specifically give you permission to repost publicly, maybe you should ask for permission.
 

jmgratz

Original Owners Club Member
Jim,
Perhaps you didn't notice that I did not say Heartland had issues or only Heartland had issues. I used the brand as a reference point for claims that RV manufacturers did not have engineers on staff. I posted this here because I felt Tom Montague would reply and he and Andy from Lippert sent emails to me.

Don't be so defensive of the brand that you fail to understand the posts intent.. We own a Landmark as you and many others do. I am not a newbie to RVing and in fact have been full timing for going on six years. I am familiar with C.G. CCC and have come across many overloaded rigs in our travels.I also am familiar with vertical and horizontal and momentum based loading.

To restate my original post. Does Heartland have engineers? Answer. DUH ya think? Does Lippert have engineers? same answer. Now I can go back to the forum that the issue involving a completely different company and present the emailed answers.

Oddly enough, DRV happened to be one of the brands reffed to in the post... And, if you'll think about it and look at the many images of failed welds on Lippert frames. you'd note that often the failures were in part due ro insufficient penetration, too high or low temperature and not just improper loading or stresses.

So sorry. I was not trying to be defensive or defending the brand. I just understood what I read to mean you thought Heartland did not have any engineers. Guess I am so stupid I can't understand what I read. Sorry again.
 

donr827

Well-known member
I think that the legal eagles of corporations would not like to see this type of question answered. I have wondered the same thing in the past. I know that when NuWa was in business they did have engineers on staff. If you spend time on the RV.Net forum you will notice that the threads about Lippert frame failures are way down in number especially on fames manufactured the past two to three years. In my opinion they have finally woke up and built their frames better. JMO
Don
 

murry135

New York Chapter Leaders - retired
I am one of those HL Landmark owners who had several welds fail. Lippert did re-weld and make all necessary repairs at no cost to me just down time. I think both companies need to inspect there work and products that show there name better. Lippert never approached the idea that I was overloaded they just said "WOW" that was a bad weld and repaired them.
 

Cyberdave

Well-known member
So sorry. I was not trying to be defensive or defending the brand. I just understood what I read to mean you thought Heartland did not have any engineers. Guess I am so stupid I can't understand what I read. Sorry again.

Jim, No problem I probably could have been more specific.
 
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