Delam on not only our Sundance but another in storage...coincidence??

Well I've written before and my post was deleted after being moved but here goes again. In March while in Florida we noticed that behind our Fridge in the off door slide there was delamination between the top and bottom air vents, Directly behind the fridge. When we noticed it, it had not rained and we could find no water intrusion. We contacted our Dealer and Heartland and was told there HAS to be water intrusion to cause delamination. We told both the dealer and Heartland that we would like to have it looked at but we are out of warranty...only owned the rig for 1 1/2 yrs. We bought it in July 2013 as it was a 2012 leftover off the lot.
So yesterday we took the unit to where our dealer suggested we take it because heartland had already washed their hands of it and so had they. Took it to a body shop and had them look at it and was told..looks like the delamination was caused from excessive heat from the back of the fridge. The cost to repair it is over $2000 and not something we should have to deal with. Now today when we went back to the storage area we keep our Sundance in 2 spaces down is another Sundance from the same dealer we bought ours from. I decided to go take a look at it and sure enough THEY HAVE DELAMINATION in the exact same place we do. And they purchased it as I said from the same dealership we did and its the same year ours is..coincidence...ummm guessing NOT.
As you can see from the pictures ..ours is the one closest to the truck. The other one is an 2900MK and ours is a 3200RE. Their fridge is on the door side of the unit..ours is on the off door side and both having the same top and bottom vents and both fridges in the slides. Circled in Black is our unit..the Red is the other unit in our storage facility.
In picture #1 you can see both units in storage
In #2 you can see where our's has delaminated while in Florida between top and bottom vents
In #3 see where the bubbles are in between the top and bottom vents? Not just the one being pointed to but another above it.
In #4 The Same delamination between the top and bottom vents on the other unit in storage.
In #5 Again more delamination of the other unit. They also have delamination under their outside shower and had a recent tire blowout that took their trim off the unit.


So my question is this....Who should be paying for the repair to our unit when we find its not only our unit but another with the exact same problem?

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

This is clearly a defect in workmanship which is covered by your ONE YEAR factory warranty. If it's beyond a year, you pay. That's what you signed up for when you bought it.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Okay So if you paid over 50K for a new unit that was only used for less than a year and a half and had over $2000 worth of Delamination damage you would be ok with it? You would be ok with the fact you found another unit with the exact same problem in the exact same place and not think something is wrong with the design of the unit to cause damage to it from heat from an appliance they installed? I don't think its right that we should have to pay for damage that is due to poor design. We have had a few units and expect problems to arise and go out of our way to insure that our unit is taken care of and maintained the way it should be. Sorry but when its not only our unit with the same problem then I really dont think you would expect to pay for a poor design and damage that was NOT caused by misuse or poor maintenance on our part.
Just saying with all the great reviews about heartland standing behind their products and owners then maybe, instead of blaming us for a design flaw, they would see if they could help fix the problem.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

You have a rig that is over 3 years old.
Do you a extended warranty?
If not, then you need to pay for the fix.
Factory warranties don't last for ever.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

The unit was purchased in July 2013 and was NEW from dealer stock. So it is less than 2 yrs old. We also purchased extended warranty but delamination is not covered. Their is NO water intrusion and no reason that it should have this problem. I guess everyone that has delamination no matter the reason, should not question as to reason or if it's poor design and just fork out the big bucks to fix it. Sorry but I don't think so.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Yes it was new when you bought it in 2013, but was probably mfg sometime in 2012 so it could of set on the dealers lot for maybe 6 months or more.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Did you call Heartland yourself or did the dealer call to give you the no go. If it was the dealer that called, you might disregard for the moment and call to verify for yourself. I realize that the 1yr warranty may be out, but considering the circumstances, it's worth a try.

I can totally understand your frustration. I think any normal person would be a bit upset if they were in your shoes, and I dont think you are asking too much for Heartland to stand behind this type of issue, if in fact, it is not from water intrusion.

If you end up having to pay out of pocket you might get a few more quotes, or maybe someone on the forum can recommend a reasonable shop that is capable of the repair. 2K sounds really high.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

My question is where is the refrigerator drain at and what kind of shape is the caulking in.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Caulking is in good shape with none missing and checked at least twice while in Florida while washing and waxing the unit. The drain hose runs out the middle of the bottom vent and was and is working correctly with no cracks in it. The delamination is exactly behind the fridge. Between the top vent and bottom vent there is a space about 12 inches deep that was boxed in behind the fridge. Imagine a box from the bottom of the TOP vent to the TOP of the bottom vent installed behind the fridge to fill a void because the fridge is not as deep as the slideout. That is exactly what is between the delamination and fridge, where heat builds up with no place to go. So in essence we have a box behind our fridge with no ventilation and does get hot, with no way to disperse the heat.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

We called Heartland first then our dealer back home in Canada. When we got home and went to see the dealer we were told that we had already spoken to heartland and they said it had to be from water intrusion so they didn't even look at our unit. They suggested we take it to where they have body work done and to have them check it out. The place they suggested was a body shop that we did go to and they said it looked like heat that caused the problem not water and that we really should contact the manufacturer. which we had already done. It wasn't until we saw the other Sundance today in the same storage facility that our is in and only 2 spots away that we saw the exact same delamination in the exact same place as ours that really upset us. To put a enclosed box behind a fridge that gets hot with no way for the heat that gets trapped in it to escape tends us to believe that the design of the placement of the fridge is flawed causing the problem.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

You may be right, that the heat trapped in that spacer "box" caused the skin to delam. Try calling HL again and ask to speak with the brand manager for Sundance. Tell him what the tech suspects caused the problem.

In our rig, the fridge also sits in a slide, but there is a lot less than 12" between it and the wall. But the entire space is open with no delam of the wall after six summers of being left on continuously.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

The "box" behind the fridge is there to direct the air flow from the bottom vent closer to, and across the fins on the back of the fridge to make it cool better and dissipate the heat created by the fridge so it will exit the upper vent. So it actually serves two purposes, it makes air flow across the fins to make the fridge operate better and it also keeps the heat generated by the fridge from being applied to the outside wall.

I would think you need to look at the top vent on the slide out and check that area for water intrusion.

Jim M

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Sounds like you need to talk to Heartland directly with your new findings. If you could get the "expert's opinion" in writing to send to HL as well, that would help your case. Be respectful and not accusatory, I think you can ask for their consideration again.


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Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Tundra2084 said:

We called Heartland first then our dealer back home in Canada. When we got home and went to see the dealer we were told that we had already spoken to heartland and they said it had to be from water intrusion so they didn't even look at our unit. They suggested we take it to where they have body work done and to have them check it out. The place they suggested was a body shop that we did go to and they said it looked like heat that caused the problem not water and that we really should contact the manufacturer. which we had already done. It wasn't until we saw the other Sundance today in the same storage facility that our is in and only 2 spots away that we saw the exact same delamination in the exact same place as ours that really upset us. To put a enclosed box behind a fridge that gets hot with no way for the heat that gets trapped in it to escape tends us to believe that the design of the placement of the fridge is flawed causing the problem.

Click to expand...

Did you talk to anyone at Heartland? I noticed that no names have been mentioned. I also had issues but I talked to Heartland directly and they got resolved. I would call Heartland customer service and talk to someone that actually can help you. No disrespect to the dealer but they are NOT Heartland.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Some good ideas mentioned here and ignore the criticisms. If you can change the title of the thread and add Sundance you might get more replies from other Sundance owners. Calling the brand manager is the way to go.
Don

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Tundra2084 said:

was told there HAS to be water intrusion to cause delamination.

Click to expand...

In a laminated constructed wall, de-lamaination can happen because of water - or - an improper lay up of the lamination or poor quality of materials.

Just an FYI, if nothing has changed, laminated walls are built in the wall plant then put outside. I don't know for how long.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Hi Tundra,

As others have suggested, you should call Heartland Customer Service again. 877-262-8032 / 574-262-8030. Have your VIN # ready.

Although the warranty has expired, Heartland sometimes fixes problems that are out of warranty. You might look at this as an "accommodation" made in the interest of customer satisfaction. It's not something they have to do, but is something they choose to do.

Delamination is usually caused by water, but as others have said, there are other possibilities that occur much less frequently. So in your conversation with Heartland, let me suggest that you steer the conversation away from what's typical, and toward the findings of the body shop.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Thinking of a possible cause here, other than water based on your repair facilities findings. I am wondering if the fan(s) on the fridge, or the related heat sensor for the fans has failed allowing the heat to build in excess. I would hate to see you have it repaired and have the problem happen again because the root of the problem is not properly addressed.

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

Pic #3 has some brownish looking residue on the vent cover. It looks like it may have been a liquid at one time.
Do you know what that is? Or was?
It may be a clue to determining the cause of the delam.

Peace
Dave

Re: Delam on not only ours but another in storage...coincidence??

The brownish colored residue is from the Pollen from the trees we were under, mixed with water that was remaining from washing the unit and not drying the vent cover. It's not from the back of the fridge as the hose from the fridge is pulled out past the vent so it will drip on the ground and not down the side.