Sundance XLT 265RK GVWR discrepancy

Discount can order Maxxis tires, but they will most likely recommend Carlisle because they keep them in stock. If you decide to order Maxxis just make sure to specify that you don't want to accept any tires that the date code indicates more than 6 months old. For some reason I've been hearing of them selling off older stock.

Do some research on the Carlisles or any other tire before deciding. There are a lot of China Bombs out there !

wrgrs50s said:

Do some research on the Carlisles or any other tire before deciding. There are a lot of China Bombs out there !

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Before I bought the Hi Run tires I did an internet search for them . . .

Only two (2) reviews on the entire world wide web!

One good and one bad.

I figured they must be a good tire, otherwise there would be thousands of reviews!

wrgrs50s said:

Discount can order Maxxis tires, but they will most likely recommend Carlisle because they keep them in stock. If you decide to order Maxxis just make sure to specify that you don't want to accept any tires that the date code indicates more than 6 months old. For some reason I've been hearing of them selling off older stock.

Do some research on the Carlisles or any other tire before deciding. There are a lot of China Bombs out there !

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I found the following Maxxis tires: [h=2]ST Radial M8008[/h] Are these the ones you are talking about? They are listed to have 2830 lb max load @80psi

While I agree with you doing research you don't know what you don't know until it's too late. Now I'm confused and just not sure if I will stay with LT tires like my other 5th wheel or go back to Goodyear ST Maxxis. I moved to LT tires to gain height, eliminate the 65mph speed restriction, gain straight line stability, and get away from china bombs.
[h=2][/h]

Yes, M8008 are the ones I have. To be honest, I would have preferred LT tires for the same reasons you stated, but were unaware of any available with the load capacity. What brand and size did you put on your 5r ?


I'm not familiar with the Hi Run tires that JohnD has so I'm curious about those also.

wrgrs50s said:

Yes, M8008 are the ones I have. To be honest, I would have preferred LT tires for the same reasons you stated, but were unaware of any available with the load capacity. What brand and size did you put on your 5r ?


I'm not familiar with the Hi Run tires that JohnD has so I'm curious about those also.

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My existing 5er has a GVWR of 8200lbs. I purchased Cooper Discoverer HTP LT235/75R15 104R C1 BSW with a C1 load rating of 1985lbs @50lbs pressure. This gave me a 7940 max trailer weight, I think. The original tires were ST205/75R15C and are listed on the trailer certified weight label.

For the Sundance with a GVWR of 11,430lbs I looking at Cooper Discoverer HT3 LT235/85R16 E with a max load of 3042lbs @ ???lbs tire pressure which I think will equate to a max trailer weight of 12,168lbs. Until I go talk to the Discount Tire Dealership this is all based on my limited knowledge of tires but the dimensions appear to be correct and the max load appears to be adequate. Please don't quote me on any of the numbers or the tire size I mentioned because I'm currently not confident that they will actually fit on the trailer however you can kinda see where I'm going. Once I have actual tires selected and ordered I will follow-up and let you know what the experts recommend, selected, and are installed on the trailer.

I went to Discount Tire today and after a lengthy discussion with the salesman I'm still not sure if I'm converting to LT tires or staying with ST's. During my on-line search I read that LT tires can be used on light trucks or trailers and I also finally realized that Maxxis are ST tires with a speed restriction of 65mph, which is not what I am really wanting to do when I change tires. I'm not going to be able to finalize my selection until I bring the trailer home so for now I'll just have to relax and wait.

When I purchased my Starcraft 5er I initially put ST205/75R15C1 101 B Carlisle Radial Trail RH tires on the trailer. This is the only ST tire I am aware of that is advertising a speed restriction of 87mph and this was the deciding factor for purchasing them at that time. There have been many discussions and threads on several forums regarding this tire and many don't believe that the speed restriction of 87mph is correct. I would really like to know if others have purchased these tires and if so what kind of performance are they providing.

Rollin_Free said:

When I purchased my Starcraft 5er I initially put ST205/75R15C1 101 B Carlisle Radial Trail RH tires on the trailer. This is the only ST tire I am aware of that is advertising a speed restriction of 87mph and this was the deciding factor for purchasing them at that time. There have been many discussions and threads on several forums regarding this tire and many don't believe that the speed restriction of 87mph is correct.

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I'll hazard a guess that you've found the 87 mph speed rating on a website other than the manufacturer's. Perhaps on a discount tire sales website. The Carlisle site doesn't show any speed ratings at all. The catalog that includes their ST tires, including the Radial RH tires you've mentioned, says on page 93:

- Best practice. Do not exceed 60 mph while towing a trailer.

– Most ST trailer tires have a maximum speed rating of 65 mph.

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The catalog doesn't provide speed ratings.

I would suggest disregarding any speed ratings other than what might be provided by the manufacturer.

87 mph trailer tire...maybe not.

Dumboldles

danemayer said:

I'll hazard a guess that you've found the 87 mph speed rating on a website other than the manufacturer's. Perhaps on a discount tire sales website. The Carlisle site doesn't show any speed ratings at all. The catalog that includes their ST tires, including the Radial RH tires you've mentioned, says on page 93:



The catalog doesn't provide speed ratings.

I would suggest disregarding any speed ratings other than what might be provided by the manufacturer.

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Whow! I read several sections in the catalog you linked and it is obvious I don't know anything about tires. I have the LT and ST information reversed and the catalogue says not to use LT tires on a trailer because the sidewall is weaker than ST tires. I have always been told that LT tire side walls are stiffer and track better and ST tires flex to take the stress off turns and help keep the tread flatter on the road.

When the catalog a best practice of keeping speed under 65 and 60 is recommended I am amazed by how many 5er's and TT's are passing me when I'm going 70 in my truck without a trailer. I'm going to be doing a lot more research on this subject since the information I just read is in direct conflict to what I have been practicing and using to purchase tires.

Thank you for the insight.

There's some other things to consider. LT is a certification statement. LT certified tires have a significant margin relative to their stated weight capacity. ST is more of a design statement. The weight ratings are usually higher, in part because there is no certification that requires a large margin as with LTs.

The sidewall design issue the subject of a lot of debate. Some people think it's baloney. The manufacturers claim there's a difference in the design that's important. But when you see lots of failures on ST tires, and very few on LT tires, it causes doubts to be raised.

Adding to the confusion between LT and ST is that there are LT certified tires that are designed for trailer use. The Goodyear G614 is one. It's an LT certified tire, with high weight ratings, along with the margin required for certification. But it's also designed and marketed as a trailer tire. Even more confusing, Goodyear markets it as an RST G614. The RST designation makes it sound like it's an ST tire. RST is actually short for something like Regional Shorthaul Trailer tire.

If you decide to buy LT tires that are designed to be on light trucks, be sure to check the weight rating carefully to make sure it's a match for your trailer requirements.

Well I went to Goodyear and the G614 RST only comes in LT235/85R16 as far as I can see and I know it won't fit. I went to Maxxis 8008 and they do have a ST225/75R15 117 E1 BSW which is the correct size. I guess I need to select between the ST Carlisle, St Maxxis 8008, or maybe a LT if I can find one that will take the weight and fit correctly. The easiest would be to select one of the ST's but I just gotta check the LT options.

Drive 65 . . .

Rollin_Free said:

When the catalog a best practice of keeping speed under 65 and 60 is recommended I am amazed by how many 5er's and TT's are passing me when I'm going 70 in my truck without a trailer.

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I know . . .

Every time someone blows by me with a trailer when I'm doing 65 mph while towing I just shake my head and hope that I don't see them in the ditch up ahead.

Our first TT that we owned was a 1978 Coachman Cadet 24 footer . . .



It was already 21 years old when we bought it and it had seen it's better days.

It had some off-brand white-lettered LT tires on it when we bought it in 2001 . . . and were still on it when we traded it in for our 2013 Heartland Trail Runner in September of 2012.

I never worried about tires the whole time we owned it . . . check the pressure once or twice a year . . . and drove 80 - 90 mph often when going some place with it!

Of course . . . I didn't have a place like this website to teach me of my wrong doings!

I miss that old beast in a lot of ways, but I don't want it back!

Last I heard it is up in the mountains serving as a hunter's cabin . . . and I'll bet those tires are still on it!

But no matter what anyone says, you are taking your own life and anyone else who is either traveling with you or within a mile of you on the same road if you are going any faster than 65 - 70 mph when towing a travel trailer or 5th-wheeler.

No matter what tires are on the trailer!

It just ain't worth it . . . leave an extra day for the drive or plan the trip a little closer to home if you don't have the extra time to spare!

Drive 65!

Re: Drive 65 . . .

The difference between ST and LT tires is the design of the sidewalls. LT tires can be put on the steering wheels of a vehicle because of the stiff structure of the sidewall. It is designed stiffer and will not give. Trailer tires don't require the structure or stiffness because they will not experience the continued forces of turning a three to six thousand pound vehicle. ST tires cannot be used even as drive wheel tires because the side walls are that week. The Goodyear 614's are drive wheel/trailer tires and are listed as LT, but cannot be used on a truck's steering wheels. Again the tire is designed with stronger side walls, but not strong enough for steering. I have a friend that worked all his life after the Navy, 35 years, for Michelin. He knows his stuff and has taught me much as to why a tire will fail. He taught courses to other Michelin employees about tire construction and tire failure among other things.

Re: Drive 65 . . .

Agreed x2 regarding 65mph.

When I was reading the Carlisle catalogue (linked in a thread earlier) page 43 said under fact that ST tires have stiffer sidewalks to prevent swaying to help prevent flexing and provide a straighter pull. However they don't seem to be comparing to LT's directly or are they.

Just so we're on the same page when I brought up the Carlisle with a speed restriction of 87 mph it was not because I drive that fast. I just liked having the buffer between 65 and 87 because I was confident I was well under the tire max speed. I do drive at 65 most of the time but when I purchased my LT's I started creeping up to 70 more often to make it to the top of the hills easier but I made sure not to go that fast for extended periods of time. I also use TST monitoring to watch tire pressure and temp. I realize the temp is not real accurate however it gives me a reference temp/pressure to use at the beginning of my trips.

Re: Drive 65 . . .

They may have beefed up the tire, but they are still ST trailer only tires. I had a set on my tow dolly with my old class C. They preformed well, but they did not have the weight associated with a fifth wheel. Sailun ST radial tires have one of the best reputation. Built to Canadian standards which I am told are much better than US standards. If I have known at the time, I might have put them on instead of the Goodyear 614's. The Goodyear 614's have one of the best warranties in the business. The very few that have had a failure, have reported that Goodyear replaced the tire and paid for the repair caused by it. For me I will stick with the Goodyear 614's.

Re: Drive 65 . . .

I admit I am and have been curious about the Sailun tires but concerned about possible warranty issues so haven't really looked into them yet. Since I only see one size listed for the G614 RST tires and know that size is too big for my 5er I can't use them.

wrgrs50s said:

I'm not familiar with the Hi Run tires that JohnD has so I'm curious about those also.

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So far I've put around 2000 miles on them (1000 of those was last month going to the Tucson Rodeo Rally) and they are holding up good!

Now, our Prowler is one of the lighter weight 5th-wheelers . . .

We have two more long trips coming up . . .

The National HOC Rally in Las Vegas in October and the Lake Havasu HOC Rally in Arizona next January.

Plus two Colorado HOC Rallies and a couple of other camp outs this summer . . .

Guess I'll know how good the Hi Run tires are by then!