Stuff Made in China

Status
Not open for further replies.

danemayer

Well-known member
A lot of us are quick to bash anything made in China. No doubt there are bad actors in China and also plenty of companies that don't do a perfect job. But there's also plenty of amazing stuff.

China is the worldwide leader now in supercomputers - using Chinese chips and manufacturing. This is an incredible achievement.
The TaihuLight is comprised of some 41,000 chips, each with 260 processor cores.

I can tell you from my former work experience that making silicon wafers that have chips with 260 cores is beyond difficult. Making 41,000 of them within a short time frame is simply astounding.

I have also noted some consumer electronics equipment coming out of China recently with very impressive features and performance at extremely low prices. And it's coming with usable designs, good documentation, and responsive customer support.

Many of us are now putting Sailun tires on our RVs with great results. I recently put Sailuns on the truck.
Sailun was established in 2002 in the National Economic and Technological Development Zone in Qingdao, China. Now, Sailun sells over 30 million tyres annually in over 50 countries worldwide.

Might be time to stop bashing Chinese products.
 

Lynn1130

Well-known member
They are making big strides but until they stop stealing and reverse engineering our inventions I am hesitant to give them that much credit.
 

TravelTiger

Founding Texas-West Chapter Leaders-Retired
Here's an interesting story about "Made in China" vs "Made in USA"

Vornado is an innovative US brand of fans and heaters, with a storied history dating from 1945. Their fans cost a lot more, but they have a patented design and have been known for excellent quality and customer service, with a 5-year warranty on their products.

From their website: "Vornado was founded on the premise that comfort should be constant, bucking the trends of oscillation and utilitarian design. That still holds true today with a broad range of products that enhance efficiency and keep everyone comfortable all year long. Vornado maintains its worldwide reputation for forward-thinking products and above-and-beyond customer service from its headquarters in Andover, Kansas."

I recently had one of my Vornado products start to give me issues.

I had to replace a heater back a few years ago, when we still had our sticks and bricks in 2014. Vornado's customer service was great to work with, they simply asked me to take a picture of the manufacturing plate and then cut the cord as close to the base as possible, and send that picture as well. I upgraded to the next model for a reasonable price, and they shipped a new Vornado heater in 2 days.

Fast forward to 2016, I had one of the tower fans quit working, right about the 1-year mark. I did the same process (cut cord, send pic, new fan 2 days later.) That fan quit working about 8 months later, and again, I did the same process with Vornado.

Well, the Vornado heater previously mentioned started creating a burning smell every time it ran, no matter the length of time. I decided to again call Vornado. They would not ship a new heater. They told me this unit was made in the USA. The other products I had previously had issues with were made in China, so it was more cost-effective to have me disable the product and they ship a new one.

Because this heater was made in the USA, I was required to box the unit up and ship it to them in Kansas, so they could evaluate it and repair, then ship it back to me. I was shocked that I was going to have to jump through more hoops, for having a unit made in America! I asked them to send me a refurbished unit in 2 days like the previous warranty claims, but they would not do that, either. I shipped them the heater (they did supply a prepaid shipping label, but I had to find an appropriate box, packing material, and take it to UPS.) About 10 days later I received the repaired heater. They included a typed note with a real person's signature, that said they were happy to help me, they had cleaned the unit and replaced the motor, and that my customer satisfaction was very important to them.

However, when I removed the unit from the box, some little white metallic pieces fell out of the heater. I could not see anywhere that they could have come from. I also noted that the covers that conceal the assembly screws were not all replaced. I am using the heater and so far it seems to be working, I think. I cannot tell a difference between low and high (the fan speed seems the same) but maybe it's low and high heat. I hope that I don't have any more issues with this one!

I don't know what's worse, Chinese products that fail quickly, or a slow process and half-hearted repair work in America?

I know you may be thinking, "Just buy a different brand!" Well, I did. While still addressing the warranty claim via email, I needed something to help with the cold weather since we are having issues with the furnace. I looked for a few days on Amazon, and read all the reviews for a variety of brands and styles. There were very few heaters that scored at the top, and almost all of them had some kind of premature failure record reported in the reviews. I purchased a Delonghi, which had a good reputation, and had many of the same features. However, it does not warm the area as effectively as the Vornado does. :(
 

danemayer

Well-known member
You should give them a lot of credit. These are new cutting-edge chip designs. They debugged the design and manufacture to make it work. They're manufacturing large silicon wafers needed for those high performance chips and they get high enough yields to make supercomputers. These things are incredibly difficult. IBM, Hewlett Packard, and Intel all have plenty of difficulty doing these things.

In the early 2000s, China was IBM's largest single customer for supercomputers. Interestingly they didn't just reverse engineer and copy those designs. They determined it was in their national interest to be independent and they've done the hard work to become independent with their own designs.
 

wdk450

Well-known member
I bought my Bighorn in 2009. We has a LOI of problems with suspension springs going flat that was attributed to poor quality Chinese steel being used. I have had 3 major incidents of problems with my frame steel. At that time forum posters told of rampant corruption, paying off QC inspectors, switching out cheaper materials in chinese produced goods. Chinese produced wheel bearings, tires, and the like were also similarly charged as being shoddy. I believed that the Chinese government addressed these corruption issues with a lot of arrests, and reports of executions of the corrupt officials.

The Chinese military needed quality components to make the advanced jet fighters, aircraft carriers, army vehicles, and space program that they now have. I remember as a kid seeing the cheap postwar japanese toys and other consumer items. Then the sense of national pride kicked in and the Japanese self-policed themselves to eventually obtain the fine reputation of quality they now have. I don't know if the Chinese have the same level of national pride as the Japanese do, but they seem to be on a generally higher plane of product quality than they were in 2009.
 

brianlajoie

Well-known member
If I have a choice, I will not choose products made in China. I just put is a solar system and used Canadian panels. I will also never eat anything that comes from China.
 

SNOKING

Well-known member
I have a friend touring China right now. Quote from him.

"I am writing up our experiences, but Asia is going to kick our butt from what I have seen. It is unbelievable how wrong my perceptions were."
 

Lynn1130

Well-known member
And I have to think back 40 or 45 years and all of the hype about Japan and the technological advances that they were making (basically using our inventions and making them smaller). That worked well for awhile for Japan and they came up with many advances on American inventions. They were innovative. But eventually it all caught up with them and their economy imploded. In the 50s their imports were junk. In the 60s and 70s they were innovative. Today they are ho-hum and in some cases inferior to U.S..

China and Russia are living on technology stolen from the U.S. and while they are good at re-engineering time will tell if they can come up with their own inventions without the help of the western world. I think not. History repeats itself. Cheap labor make for cheap products, until the laborers wake up.
 

Whiskers

Member
A lot of us are quick to bash anything made in China. No doubt there are bad actors in China and also plenty of companies that don't do a perfect job. But there's also plenty of amazing stuff.

China is the worldwide leader now in supercomputers - using Chinese chips and manufacturing. This is an incredible achievement.


I can tell you from my former work experience that making silicon wafers that have chips with 260 cores is beyond difficult. Making 41,000 of them within a short time frame is simply astounding.

I have also noted some consumer electronics equipment coming out of China recently with very impressive features and performance at extremely low prices. And it's coming with usable designs, good documentation, and responsive customer support.

Many of us are now putting Sailun tires on our RVs with great results. I recently put Sailuns on the truck.


Might be time to stop bashing Chinese products.
"Now, Sailun sells over 30 million (tyres) annually in over 50 countries worldwide."
Proof read next time, (tires)

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

mlpeloquin

Well-known member
Japan in the past made it almost impossible for a American product to be imported and sold in Japan. Our cars had to be completely disassembled, each part inspected and reassembled by Japanese workers. Then it was allowed to be sold in Japan. I think we should have done this with each and every one of there imports as well with American workers until their requirement was changed. One of our garbage disposal companies had a hard time getting approval to sell in Japan. Finally they were allowed to using door to door sales with high commissions and taxes on them. They submitted patents. Patent process took a long time and was eventually denied because a Japanese company submitted identical drawings and was awarded the patent. The company was told that they could no longer sell their products again in Japan do to patent infringement.

Military grade, with certifications, electronic parts have been found to be counterfeit. Came from China. Only electronic parts purchased directly form the designing manufacture can be used now. Bolts cracked and failed. The bolts had certifications. Traced back to a Chinese foundry. The certs stated the metal that they were made from met the Mil specifications. It did not. It contained another metal that caused embrittlement. Thus the failure in testing. All metal fasteners now must be sent to material and processing for examination under and electron microscope to make sure that the certifications are correct.

China steals billions of US intellectual property every year. The French were number one until we started trading with China.

Sailun tires are designed to Canadian specifications and are more stringent the US trailer tire specifications. From what I have beem told, they are a Canadian company that has their tires produced in China. They have a Canadian inspector in the China plant. Thus a good tire. Goodyear started to have their tires produced in China. G614"s started to fail. Goodyear moved all production back to the US.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
"Now, Sailun sells over 30 million (tyres) annually in over 50 countries worldwide."
Proof read next time, (tires)

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

"tyre" is the British spelling.

- - - Updated - - -

And I have to think back 40 or 45 years and all of the hype about Japan and the technological advances that they were making (basically using our inventions and making them smaller). That worked well for awhile for Japan and they came up with many advances on American inventions. They were innovative. But eventually it all caught up with them and their economy imploded. In the 50s their imports were junk. In the 60s and 70s they were innovative. Today they are ho-hum and in some cases inferior to U.S..

Interestingly, we have frequent assertions on this forum that if Japanese companies ever got into the RV business, we'd all have better RVs.
 

hogan

Past Mississippi Chapter Leader (Founding)
"tyre" is the British spelling.

- - - Updated - - -
Thank you Dan for your message on "Stuff from China". I spent my last two years prior to retiring working in China in several tire factories in Shanghai area and Hangzhou. I observed different levels of Quality performance and some were very impressive. Being a long term tire guy, I read every article I can on tires and especially tires for our RVs. Sailun has a sparklng reputation and not only in RV tires. I logged many miles with Sailun tyres on my Bighorn and when the Goodyears need replacing on my Landmark, I will look to Sailun.

Hogan Cooper
 

Gary521

Well-known member
A lot of us are quick to bash anything made in China. No doubt there are bad actors in China and also plenty of companies that don't do a perfect job. But there's also plenty of amazing stuff.

China is the worldwide leader now in supercomputers - using Chinese chips and manufacturing. This is an incredible achievement.


I can tell you from my former work experience that making silicon wafers that have chips with 260 cores is beyond difficult. Making 41,000 of them within a short time frame is simply astounding.

I have also noted some consumer electronics equipment coming out of China recently with very impressive features and performance at extremely low prices. And it's coming with usable designs, good documentation, and responsive customer support.

Many of us are now putting Sailun tires on our RVs with great results. I recently put Sailuns on the truck.


Might be time to stop bashing Chinese products.

Why do you feel it is necessary to defend the Chinese made products? Is there an issue here?
 

wdk450

Well-known member
"tyre" is the British spelling.

- - - Updated - - -
Thank you Dan for your message on "Stuff from China". I spent my last two years prior to retiring working in China in several tire factories in Shanghai area and Hangzhou. I observed different levels of Quality performance and some were very impressive. Being a long term tire guy, I read every article I can on tires and especially tires for our RVs. Sailun has a sparklng reputation and not only in RV tires. I logged many miles with Sailun tyres on my Bighorn and when the Goodyears need replacing on my Landmark, I will look to Sailun.

Hogan Cooper

Hogan:
It is a GREAT ASSET for this forum to have a professional tire manufacturing expert on board. Thank you for your knowledge and contributions to the rest of us.
 
B

BouseBill

Guest
Hope that Chinese space station don't fall on you heads folks. Suppose to crash back sometime in early 2018:D
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Why do you feel it is necessary to defend the Chinese made products? Is there an issue here?

My comment isn't so much about defending Chinese made products. It's about what I see as uncalled for bashing of anything made in China, whether it's actually made there or just perceived to have been made there. And indirectly, it's bashing of the Chinese people.

I sometimes wonder, if they visit this forum, what people of Chinese descent must think of us. And if interested in RV'ing, what would they think of Heartland.
 

Lynn1130

Well-known member
I am having a little problem with that one Dan. Are we now so politically correct that a comment about our country of origin, even though we may be 6 generation or more removed would insult us? That is opening up a big bucket of worms.
 

mlpeloquin

Well-known member
My comment isn't so much about defending Chinese made products. It's about what I see as uncalled for bashing of anything made in China, whether it's actually made there or just perceived to have been made there. And indirectly, it's bashing of the Chinese people.

I sometimes wonder, if they visit this forum, what people of Chinese descent must think of us. And if interested in RV'ing, what would they think of Heartland.

Not bashing maid in China. Just be ware of the questionable stuff that can come from some of China's factories. They are getting better. It used to be that made in Japan was a big question on quality and poor design through the fifties and into the early sixties. By the mid sixties the products from Japan were on par or better that anyone else. China's industries will and are learning just as Japan's industries did. I have a lot of stuff made in China. Some is really good and some is not worth having. I do worry about fasteners that come form China do to past experiences.
 

wdk450

Well-known member
Hope that Chinese space station don't fall on you heads folks. Suppose to crash back sometime in early 2018:D

The USA let Skylab re-enter the atmosphere and break up. The odds against getting hit by re-entering space debris are pretty good - 6/7 of the earth is oceans. Most space junk melts and disintegrates from atmospheric friction. Skylab defied this and fell in the outback of Australia, still not harming anyone.
 

avvidclif

Well-known member
I don't look at it as bashing China as much as trying to support the US. I avoid as much "Made in China" as I can.

And for good reason. A lot of it is junk. If that offends the Chinese, tough. I'm not politically correct.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top