Disc actuation with 2015 3500/F-450

alwaysbusy

Well-known member
We are looking at newer model TV’s and I am seeking input from those owning a 2015-2016 Silverado 3500 or F-450 and are running disc brakes via a BrakeRite actuator. A little disclaimer: I am not interested in stirring up the tribes on who’s truck is better here as I have no interest in this. Historically speaking, I have owned trucks from all the big 3.

When depressing the brake pedal on our current 11’ Silverado 3500, I experience the split second delay so many speak of before the trailer discs contact the rotors. I currently use the adapter for our truck and I understand it is not utilized for the 4 trucks listed above with the DIC settings.

For those having experience with one of the above trucks with disc brakes, do you experience any delay?

Thanks
 

jnbhobe

Well-known member
I have Kodiak brakes with a Carlisle controller, pulling with a Ford.When I did my install years ago there was talk about hesitation, so I run 1/4 in line back to the split. No noticeable hesitation and the brake control is set on 6.
 

travelin2

Pennsylvania Chapter Leaders-retired
I have the Titan disc kit from Performance Trailer Brakes DIY installed per vendor specs. Tow a 16K BH with a '12 F350. I experience no hesitation. The disc brakes engage quicker than the drums ever did!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Gary521

Well-known member
Yes, I experience a split second delay. I do not think its the controller, I think I still have a small amount of air in the lines. The split second does not cause me any problems. On my last trip I experienced a panic stop situation. The brakes locked up and stopped the trailer quickly.
 

Garypowell

Well-known member
Always,

have a 2015 3500 SRW. I am 1,000 miles from trailer now no exact info but have mor ride installed disk brakes when they put on the independent suspension.

Had and to use an intermediary $100 bridge of some kind so Chevy would control disc brakes.

Works like a charm with no lag or delay!
 

mlpeloquin

Well-known member
I have the Titan system. When it was installed I was told that there is a slight delay do to the hydraulic pump. It takes a half second to start to build up pressure. I don't notice it any longer most likely do to that fact that I am use to it. I was told when I know that I am going to apply the breaks or may need to, to just touch the break pedal to activate the pump. The breaks will not be applied until the break pedal is pushed harder. The activation of the break lights starts up the pump without much if any pressure. I may still be doing this without thinking about it which maybe the reason I do not notice the delay.

- - - Updated - - -

Always,

have a 2015 3500 SRW. I am 1,000 miles from trailer now no exact info but have mor ride installed disk brakes when they put on the independent suspension.

Had and to use an intermediary $100 bridge of some kind so Chevy would control disc brakes.

Works like a charm with no lag or delay!

Just to let you all be aware that the built in break controllers are tied into the entire trucks break system. If you have anti-lock breaks and they fail, the break controller becomes inoperative. It does not matter the you are going down hill on a 6% or 8% grade or the flat. You will instantly not have trailer brakes. This has happened to a fellow Heartland member thankfully on a level highway. He has installed a Prodigy 3 brake controller to avoid a recurrence.
 

alwaysbusy

Well-known member
Thanks all. I have no huge complaints about the system; however, the time it takes for the pads to contact the rotors is definitely longer with the hydraulics than my previous electrics. I understand the setup is different and with the introduction of an actuator in between there is a response factor which must be taken into account. I am just trying to confirm if when having DIC settings it makes a difference in the newer TV's.


I have Kodiak brakes with a Carlisle controller, pulling with a Ford.When I did my install years ago there was talk about hesitation, so I run 1/4 in line back to the split. No noticeable hesitation and the brake control is set on 6.

I have done the same with respect to 1/4 inch line when I installed. Our control is at 5.5

Yes, I experience a split second delay. I do not think its the controller, I think I still have a small amount of air in the lines. The split second does not cause me any problems. On my last trip I experienced a panic stop situation. The brakes locked up and stopped the trailer quickly.

I recently had my actuator go bad and replaced with new. No difference in response time from previous actuator (when working) and the new. After bleeding again with new, I'm confident air is not a contributory factor. I have great braking.

Always,

have a 2015 3500 SRW. I am 1,000 miles from trailer now no exact info but have mor ride installed disk brakes when they put on the independent suspension.

Had and to use an intermediary $100 bridge of some kind so Chevy would control disc brakes.

Works like a charm with no lag or delay!

"$100 bridge" sounds like the adapter but I was told by Performance that the adapter is not required for these newer trucks. Maybe I got bad info. I would really like to confirm this as with the next TV I would like to remove this adapter from the wiring mix. Do you have DIC settings to choose from in your truck? Can you select Hydraulic instead of electric brakes? I thought if the TV has this option, the adapter is not needed. I thought Chevy introduced this DIC setting like Ford did with the newer models but maybe not. I'm puzzled.

I have the Titan system. When it was installed I was told that there is a slight delay do to the hydraulic pump. It takes a half second to start to build up pressure. I don't notice it any longer most likely do to that fact that I am use to it. I was told when I know that I am going to apply the breaks or may need to, to just touch the break pedal to activate the pump. The breaks will not be applied until the break pedal is pushed harder. The activation of the break lights starts up the pump without much if any pressure. I may still be doing this without thinking about it which maybe the reason I do not notice the delay.

Understandable with the setup, but I'd like the response time from pedal to actual rotor contact to be as quick as possible. Maybe I just have to get used to it.
 

Gary521

Well-known member
As a result of this discussion, I contacted Kodiak and inquired about the DELAY. Is this a normal thing with this system? Their response was that YES, this is normal. It takes a moment for the system to build pressure. The delay that I experience is split second and almost unnoticeable.
 

ksucats

Well-known member
I have a 2017 F450 and have the DIC set to hydraulic over electric; there is a slight delay - I can't say that I've ever noticed it when driving (hopefully will never be in a situation where that degree of time is needed either).
 

RoadJunkie

Well-known member
I have Titan discs and experience a perceptible delay. Let’s face it, any delay is not the best scenario for emergency braking. But there is also a propagation delay for electric braking systems; that is, the time it takes for the magnets to develop enough magnetic field to grab the hub and for the mechanical action to subsequently apply pressure to the pads. However from the point of brake engagement, the disc braking is far superior than that of the 7,000 lb axle brake system typical to the Big Horn or Big Country rigs. Of course braking is only one tool used in preventing our involvement in an accident. I have used both disc and mechanical brakes on similar-sized rigs and would be hard pressed to give up the discs.
 

porthole

Retired
the time it takes for the pads to contact the rotors is definitely longer with the hydraulics than my previous electrics
introduction of an actuator in between there is a response factor which must be taken into account.

I have done the same with respect to 1/4 inch line when I installed. Our control is at 5.5

Understandable with the setup, but I'd like the response time from pedal to actual rotor contact to be as quick as possible. Maybe I just have to get used to it.


JJ,
There may be a slight difference in perceived time, but the overall higher quality braking should more then make up for it.

But, upgrading to electric over hydraulic from conventional magnetic RV brakes is more then just the introduction of the actuator.

With RV drum brakes you apply current from the controller, the electromagnet energizes and starts the action of magnet to the face of the drum, to the front shoe into the braking surface, to the rear shoe into the braking surface.

Start at 1:55 in this video


So you apply your truck brakes and your trailer brakes start applying. But you still have a slight delay. Boosting the controller gain can shorten that delay as well as increase the brake pressure.

Keep in mind, the drum brake shoes are kept away from the drums by springs, so if they are not adjusted properly they take longer to apply.

With EoH disc brakes you have two inherent delays. One is the actuator the other is the disc brake caliper pistons. Disc brake pads also need to be kept off the rotor surface when not being applied. This is accomplished by the o-ring in the caliper. The o-ring is square, as fluid presses the piston out the o-ring is deflected, as pressure is released the o-ring returns to it's normal shape, pulling the piston back in slightly.

With drum brakes, apply voltage all 4 brakes move at the same time.
With disc brakes all four move at the same time but you are also moving a quantity of fluid to achieve that.

The actuator - is not spinning until you apply voltage, so step on the brakes, start spinning the pump to build up pressure then start moving the pistons.

The Hydrastar is a 3 piston pump. The Titan IIRC is a 5 piston pump, which offers two advantages. Faster pressure build (faster brake access) and increased fluid flow allowing cooler temps. Hydrastar recommends putting the truck in park at railroad crossings. Titan says that is not necessary.

And if you have a 2011+ Ford there are more delays. Below 11 mph the Ford controller has a 20% reduction in output to minimize the 'tugging' in stop and go traffic.
Fords also use a pressure transducer in the brake line to gauge output level, a superior method to a 'pendulum'. A bonus with the Ford system is the tie in with ABS. Although the trailer brakes are not ABS, if the ABS is activated in the truck, the trailer brakes will be appropriately controlled, along with trailer sway control.

I gave a lot of thought with the 1/4" line as well. Several discussions with Jon H too.
In the end I didn't see where it would benefit me. I don't think there is any advantage of 1/4" over 3/16", and possibly a disadvantage.
 

travelin2

Pennsylvania Chapter Leaders-retired
The key words in the previous posts are “inherent” and a “delay” in braking Evident regardless of drum or disc. But believe me, like anything else, you’re soon unconsciously conditioned to not even think of the braking process because IMO the disc brakes are so much more efficient.
Never be without discs on the camper again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

alwaysbusy

Well-known member
Agree with all on the advantages and a certain amount of expected delay with both electric and hydraulic. My hopes were with the new DIC settings on newer models and the absence of the adapter, it would improve (albeit slight). Thanks again.
 

Garypowell

Well-known member
Always,

just saw your question about my post. On my 2015 SRW HD 3500 there is no setting in the DIC for hydraulic over electric. I can toggle to a display that actually shows an indicator that show a bar as more pressure is applied.
 

Gary521

Well-known member
Agree with all on the advantages and a certain amount of expected delay with both electric and hydraulic. My hopes were with the new DIC settings on newer models and the absence of the adapter, it would improve (albeit slight). Thanks again.

The absence of the adapter is not going make it any quicker. The electronics in the pump are not slowed down because the adapter is there.
 

Mikemm62

Mike & Suzanne
I have Kodiak brakes with a Carlisle controller, pulling with a Ford.When I did my install years ago there was talk about hesitation, so I run 1/4 in line back to the split. No noticeable hesitation and the brake control is set on 6.
You must understand Jon does not use BRAKES.... ;)
 

alwaysbusy

Well-known member
Always,

just saw your question about my post. On my 2015 SRW HD 3500 there is no setting in the DIC for hydraulic over electric. I can toggle to a display that actually shows an indicator that show a bar as more pressure is applied.

Thanks Mr Gary, I thought Chevy introduced those settings as well.
 
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