Bighorn Black Tank Connection Failure

BigFry · Apr 24, 2020

Does anyone know what adhesive and/or material is used by Heartland to join the drain valve to the black tank? Mine has separated causing an unfortunate mess.

There is a white substance on the joint which resembles dicor lap sealant. There is also a single radiator type band around the black tank outlet. I contacted Alpha the manufacturer of the polyethylene tanks and theytold me that no adhesives will stick to their tanks but did not tell me how to assemble them to the drain pipe.

I have installed a Fernco coupling between the tank and the drain valve but have no history on using these to know if that will last. I will try to post pictures.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Big Fry
2017 Heartland Bighorn 3270rs

https://photos.app.goo.gl/git5LyYoaJXks8m79

JohnDar · Apr 24, 2020

Are you sure it’s polyethylene and not ABS? ABS can be solvent bonded, similar to PVC. That is not the same as gluing. From your photo, it looks like a temporary DIY repair that didn’t work. That screw clamp isn’t going to collapse that opening around the pipe shoved into the outlet to hold it. The white stuff is probably an attempt to use gooey caulk as a dam.

As for the Fernco fitting, so long as you check the clamps and condition of the rubber periodically, it’s probably going to be OK.

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Garypowell · Apr 24, 2020

So it’s called a “Fernco” fitting....that’s what I love about this forum.....you learn something every day.

I have used that type of fitting on my last rig and this current one for 5 years now with no problems. The tank plumbing is so cramped on these rigs combined with my inabilities this is how I have put everything back together after working on tank valves.

of course my fixes are buried under the cloroplast.

I applaud your solution to the problem.....you’ll do well as an RV owner. Stay tuned the fun will continue.

BigFry · Apr 24, 2020

JohnDar said:
Are you sure it’s polyethylene and not ABS? ABS can be solvent bonded, similar to PVC. That is not the same as gluing. From your photo, it looks like a temporary DIY repair that didn’t work. That screw clamp isn’t going to collapse that opening around the pipe shoved into the outlet to hold it. The white stuff is probably an attempt to use gooey caulk as a dam.

As for the Fernco fitting, so long as you check the clamps and condition of the rubber periodically, it’s probably going to be OK.

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John,

I am positive it is polyethylene. I have checked with two different sources one is which the Alpha website that has diagrams, etc. I have three identical tanks which are 42 gallons a piece. I have always wondered about the official sizes.

It is not a temporary DIY repair as I bought the camper new and I am the first one to remove that part of the cloroplast. I agree about the screw clamp and puzzled about how that is supposed to work. I have no idea what the white stuff is but it looks and feels like dicor.

Big Fry

Tanks from Alpha
https://www.alphallc.us/tanks/page/2/?filter=on

BigFry · Apr 24, 2020

Garypowell said:
So it’s called a “Fernco” fitting....that’s what I love about this forum.....you learn something every day.

I have used that type of fitting on my last rig and this current one for 5 years now with no problems. The tank plumbing is so cramped on these rigs combined with my inabilities this is how I have put everything back together after working on tank valves.

of course my fixes are buried under the cloroplast.

I applaud your solution to the problem.....you’ll do well as an RV owner. Stay tuned the fun will continue.

Thanks for letting me know that the Fernco fitting worked for you. That gives me some hope.

JohnDar · Apr 24, 2020

If you have more photos of the way it was put together, you might send them to Heartland and ask “WTF?” No way you can torque one of those clamps enough to make that a secure connection. Might want to check how secure your other holding tanks are.

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BigFry · Apr 24, 2020

JohnDar said:
If you have more photos of the way it was put together, you might send them to Heartland and ask “WTF?” No way you can torque one of those clamps enough to make that a secure connection. Might want to check how secure your other holding tanks are.

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John,

The other two tank connections are fitted the same way. I hope they will hold with that single band. I have bigger problems now that I discovered that my galley tank has sprung a leak near the seam that transitions from the lower part of the tank to the upper part that rests on the support beams. Again the manufacturer of the tanks, Alpha, says that they are not ABS and no adhesives will stick to them. I have heard that they can be "welded" but that is completely out of my abilities and looks like I will have to replace the galley tank.

When it rains it pours...

Big Fry
2017 Heartland Bighorn 3270rs

travelin2 · Apr 24, 2020

BigFry said:
John,

The other two tank connections are fitted the same way. I hope they will hold with that single band. I have bigger problems now that I discovered that my galley tank has sprung a leak near the seam that transitions from the lower part of the tank to the upper part that rests on the support beams. Again the manufacturer of the tanks, Alpha, says that they are not ABS and no adhesives will stick to them. I have heard that they can be "welded" but that is completely out of my abilities and looks like I will have to replace the galley tank.

When it rains it pours...

Big Fry
2017 Heartland Bighorn 3270rs

Try some JB weld
Clean it well with isopropyl then flex tape or eternalbond tape. It not pressurized so maybe...

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JohnDar · Apr 24, 2020

I’d still get with Heartland on this. Sounds like somebody screwed the pooch on this assembly process.

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travelin2 · Apr 24, 2020

JohnDar said:
I’d still get with Heartland on this. Sounds like somebody screwed the pooch on this assembly process.

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Can’t speak for our black tank but the valve on our grey #1 is mounted same as OP says his black tank, with just a band clamp. Noticed such while performing an adjustment to our grey #1 tank valve on our ‘17 3270 BH earlier this month

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JohnDar · Apr 24, 2020

If glues won't adhere to polyethylene, what makes them think caulking will?

JimL1949 · Apr 24, 2020

JohnDar said:
If glues won't adhere to polyethylene, what makes them think caulking will?

Permabond has a system that will work reasonably well with polyethylene.

SLO · Apr 26, 2020

BigFry said:
I have bigger problems now that I discovered that my galley tank has sprung a leak near the seam that transitions from the lower part of the tank to the upper part that rests on the support beams. Again the manufacturer of the tanks, Alpha, says that they are not ABS and no adhesives will stick to them. I have heard that they can be "welded" but that is completely out of my abilities and looks like I will have to replace the galley tank.

I have the same problem on my galley tank. In the exact same place, it sounds like. I’m going to repair it using these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VMGO1K6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Haven’t done it yet but will in the next two weeks. I’ll use my heat gun set at about 500°. I’ve been practicing on a 5 gal bucket which is HDPE. It’s easy to get it too hot and melt the bucket too much, which is why I’m practicing.

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JohnDar · Apr 26, 2020

SLO said:
I have the same problem on my galley tank. In the exact same place, it sounds like. I’m going to repair it using these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VMGO1K6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Haven’t done it yet but will in the next two weeks. I’ll use my heat gun set at about 500°. I’ve been practicing on a 5 gal bucket which is HDPE. It’s easy to get it too hot and melt the bucket too much, which is why I’m practicing.

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Interesting. Hadn’t heard about that. Only problem might be getting all the way around a fitting with the heat gun in tight spaces.

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BigFry · Apr 26, 2020

SLO said:
I have the same problem on my galley tank. In the exact same place, it sounds like. I’m going to repair it using these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VMGO1K6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Haven’t done it yet but will in the next two weeks. I’ll use my heat gun set at about 500°. I’ve been practicing on a 5 gal bucket which is HDPE. It’s easy to get it too hot and melt the bucket too much, which is why I’m practicing.

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Good luck on your repair. You will have to let us know if it works.

Flick · Apr 27, 2020

Garypowell said:
So it’s called a “Fernco” fitting....that’s what I love about this forum.....you learn something every day.

I have used that type of fitting on my last rig and this current one for 5 years now with no problems. The tank plumbing is so cramped on these rigs combined with my inabilities this is how I have put everything back together after working on tank valves.

of course my fixes are buried under the cloroplast.

I applaud your solution to the problem.....you’ll do well as an RV owner. Stay tuned the fun will continue.

Plumbers have been using these couplings for years in almost any setting. They are approved for in house use for both drain and venting purposes and anywhere 2 round ends need to be joined, even in the ground. They are actually a pvc product made with elasticity. Not made for double clamping, but sometimes a double clamp can give more support. Also, the old time standby, Permatex in a small tube which is a gasket material forms a good bond yet is still removable later. It is helpful for bonding and preventing leaks. Good choice for a connection.

BigFry · Apr 29, 2020

Thanks for all of your responses. I did get a reply from Heartland and they confirmed that the tanks are connected with “a clamp and butyl.” At least I now know what materials were used. I am hoping that the Fernco coupling will work for me.

JohnDar · Apr 29, 2020

Connected with a screw clamp and a gob of butyl caulk. What MIT dropout came up with that? At the very least, the outlet from the tank should be INSIDE the piping, not outside of it. At least, when that Rube Goldberg assembly fails, the flow would still stay in the piping, not leak around it.

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SLO · May 4, 2020

I completed my repair on my galley/laundry grey tank. I had a small crack as seen in the picture below.

I determined the tank material is HDPE (High Density Polyethylene) and confirmed by BigFry’s research that came up with Alpha tanks. https://www.alphallc.us/tanks/page/2/?filter=on I used LDPE (Low Density Polyethylene) welding strips https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VMGO1K6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 to make the repair. LDPE strips will work on HDPE material, not the other way around. Here is a picture of the final repair.

And a link to a video of my repair (it’s long, 9 min. +).

https://vimeo.com/414778244

After each welding, I would fill the tank all the way up into the vent (to create added pressure). It took me 4 tries to get no leaks. I was afraid of getting the tank too hot and distorting it too much, so I was conservative with the heat. I had my heat gun set on low, which was 570°. No leaks now but will have to see what happens after some miles down the road. I am, by no means, an expert on this repair. I only offer it as one possibility.

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BigFry · May 7, 2020

SLO,

Excellent post on your repair. Best of luck on the fix and thanks for sharing such detail.

Bighorn Black Tank Connection Failure

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