battery charge problems-mini circuit breakers

lazyp · Jul 26, 2020

Im having a problem with my battery charging on a 2010 cyclone. When I plug it into shore or run the generator power I hear two distinctive clicks like the mini circuit breakers popping. First I hear a click and then a noise that is more of a dull boing sound, then a click and then a boing and it keeps going. When I check the batter that has about 11.5 volts doesn't show any type of charge going on. I tried to put a volt meter on each side of my mini auto breakers and I see see voltage. However between the click and boing, the voltage fluctuates about half a volt. Don't know what's going on.

Tags: battery, mini breakers, power converter

wdk450 · Jul 26, 2020

My first guess is that you have bad batteries that are overloading the circuit breakers in the charging circuit. I would have the batteries tested with a load tester.

lazyp · Jul 26, 2020

wdk450 said:
My first guess is that you have bad batteries that are overloading the circuit breakers in the charging circuit. I would have the batteries tested with a load tester.

Thanks for your reply. I purchased this toy hauler about 3 months ago and the battery seemed to be holding the charge just fine. I took i out for the first time and went boondocking for about 7 days. Still things seemed to be fine. Then one night I drew the batter down pretty low and after that it wouldn't seem to hold or even take a charge. I contacted the previous owner and said he just put in these huge Renogy batteries about a year ago ( I know you cant believe everything you hear) when he installed a Renogy solar system. I will take them in to be tested. Is there a way to test the charger to make sure it is charging or to see at what level it is charging? Thanks again.

danemayer · Jul 26, 2020

At the buss bar that connects the row of 12V DC mini-circuit breakers, when plugged into shore power, you should read between 13.2 and 13.6V DC. That's if the Power Converter is working. In this picture, one of the thick wires on top connects to the Power Converter. If you put the red lead of your meter on that wire, and the black lead on a known good ground, or on the negative battery terminal, you should read 13.2 minimum. If you read something like 11.8V, you're reading the battery output and it's too low to be usable. A low reading would also indicate the Power Converter is not working. In that case, you'd need to determine why the Power Converter is not providing power to the buss bar.

Note that your arrangement of breakers will be different and the orientation could be vertical. Look for the thick wires. Measure on the side of the breakers that doesn't have the copper buss bar.

The noise you're hearing could be from the transfer switch and one of several possible reasons the Power Converter might not work is that the transfer switch might not be sending power to both power legs. In that case, some of the other 120V AC devices would be dead.

It's also possible the prior owner kludged things up when he put in the solar system. If the Solar panel and charge controller are sending power to the batteries all the time, it's going to confuse your diagnostics. If he put in an inverter to provide 120V AC from the batteries, there are many ways to do that. Some work well. Others not so much.

lazyp · Jul 26, 2020

danemayer said:
At the buss bar that connects the row of 12V DC mini-circuit breakers, when plugged into shore power, you should read between 13.2 and 13.6V DC. That's if the Power Converter is working. In this picture, one of the thick wires on top connects to the Power Converter. If you put the red lead of your meter on that wire, and the black lead on a known good ground, or on the negative battery terminal, you should read 13.2 minimum. If you read something like 11.8V, you're reading the battery output and it's too low to be usable. A low reading would also indicate the Power Converter is not working. In that case, you'd need to determine why the Power Converter is not providing power to the buss bar.

Note that your arrangement of breakers will be different and the orientation could be vertical. Look for the thick wires. Measure on the side of the breakers that doesn't have the copper buss bar.

The noise you're hearing could be from the transfer switch and one of several possible reasons the Power Converter might not work is that the transfer switch might not be sending power to both power legs. In that case, some of the other 120V AC devices would be dead.

It's also possible the prior owner kludged things up when he put in the solar system. If the Solar panel and charge controller are sending power to the batteries all the time, it's going to confuse your diagnostics. If he put in an inverter to provide 120V AC from the batteries, there are many ways to do that. Some work well. Others not so much.

Thanks for all the good information. I check some of the things you mentioned and here is what I found. The battery voltage is about 11.75. When I plugged in the power I get no change at the battery and 13.76 on the bus bar. However the clicking starts that I described earlier which sounds like two different relays or some kind of safety switch. But when the clicking starts the voltage alternates back and forth from 13.76 to 13.61. How do I test the converter. Just replaced the transfer switch and everything seems to be working there. The solar panes are not permanently mounted and only work when I put them out. The solar charging display has thrown a Battery over-discharge code. I have contacted Renogy to see what that is all about. The solar panels are not currently hooked up There is a 120 volt aftermarket inverter but there is nothing permanently hooked to it. If I want to use it I need to plug it in at the inverter. I did plug the entire rv into it with a 110 adapter and that is what drew my batter down so low. I know it wasnt good on the batteries to draw them down to 8 volts. Now I just have to figure out where to start to fix this.

danemayer · Jul 26, 2020

lazyp said:
Thanks for all the good information. I check some of the things you mentioned and here is what I found. The battery voltage is about 11.75. When I plugged in the power I get no change at the battery and 13.76 on the bus bar. However the clicking starts that I described earlier which sounds like two different relays or some kind of safety switch. But when the clicking starts the voltage alternates back and forth from 13.76 to 13.61. How do I test the converter. Just replaced the transfer switch and everything seems to be working there. The solar panes are not permanently mounted and only work when I put them out. The solar charging display has thrown a Battery over-discharge code. I have contacted Renogy to see what that is all about. The solar panels are not currently hooked up There is a 120 volt aftermarket inverter but there is nothing permanently hooked to it. If I want to use it I need to plug it in at the inverter. I did plug the entire rv into it with a 110 adapter and that is what drew my batter down so low. I know it wasnt good on the batteries to draw them down to 8 volts. Now I just have to figure out where to start to fix this.

Measure voltage with red lead on the battery positive terminal and black lead on a known good ground, but not the negative terminal of the battery. If you see 13+ volts, I'd say get the batteries load tested. Discharging them to 8 volts may have damaged them. If you see 11.75 volts, the path between power converter and batteries has a problem.

The mini-circuit breaker on the buss bar (thick wire) in between power converter and battery, usually has a teeny tiny reset button. If reading 13+ volts on one side of that breaker and 11.75 on the other side (with black lead on a known good ground), the breaker is tripped. Press the reset button. The reset button can be difficult to see - sometimes you have to feel for it.

If there is no reset button, it means the breaker was changed from a manual reset type to an auto-reset type. That could be the source of the clicking. Usually takes between 5 and 10 seconds to reset.

lazyp · Oct 12, 2020

Hello, I am still working on this problem, My row of circuit breakers look just like the one in the picture you provided except I have a battery cutout switch tied into the system. I just purchased all new circuit breakers to replace them all as I cant find out which one is possibly bad. When I started removing the breakers I found that the big wire going to the outside breaker was hot, and the battery was disconnected. I am assuming that this power is coming from the shore power. Is this also the lead that charges the batteries when the the unit is plugged in? I noticed it was putting out over 14 volts. It is attached to the Aux side of the breaker and feeds back into all the other breakers through the copper bar that connects all of the breakers. Is this the proper setup?

I'm trying to find out why after being plugged into shore power, I hear a clicking noise in the battery compartment. I think it may be one of the breakers clicking on and off. The lights inside go on and off. I need some help on this. Thanks

danemayer said:
At the buss bar that connects the row of 12V DC mini-circuit breakers, when plugged into shore power, you should read between 13.2 and 13.6V DC. That's if the Power Converter is working. In this picture, one of the thick wires on top connects to the Power Converter. If you put the red lead of your meter on that wire, and the black lead on a known good ground, or on the negative battery terminal, you should read 13.2 minimum. If you read something like 11.8V, you're reading the battery output and it's too low to be usable. A low reading would also indicate the Power Converter is not working. In that case, you'd need to determine why the Power Converter is not providing power to the buss bar.

Note that your arrangement of breakers will be different and the orientation could be vertical. Look for the thick wires. Measure on the side of the breakers that doesn't have the copper buss bar.

The noise you're hearing could be from the transfer switch and one of several possible reasons the Power Converter might not work is that the transfer switch might not be sending power to both power legs. In that case, some of the other 120V AC devices would be dead.

It's also possible the prior owner kludged things up when he put in the solar system. If the Solar panel and charge controller are sending power to the batteries all the time, it's going to confuse your diagnostics. If he put in an inverter to provide 120V AC from the batteries, there are many ways to do that. Some work well. Others not so much.

View attachment 64527

danemayer · Oct 12, 2020

lazyp said:
When I started removing the breakers I found that the big wire going to the outside breaker was hot, and the battery was disconnected. I am assuming that this power is coming from the shore power. Is this also the lead that charges the batteries when the the unit is plugged in? I noticed it was putting out over 14 volts.

That wire comes from the Power Converter so that while on shore power it delivers 13.2 - 14.0 VDC to both the fuse box and to the batteries. The output voltage depends on the state of battery charge.

It is attached to the Aux side of the breaker and feeds back into all the other breakers through the copper bar that connects all of the breakers. Is this the proper setup?

Power Converter output goes to one side of a 50 amp mini-circuit breaker - typically a manual reset. The other side of that breaker shares power with the other breakers via the copper buss bar. Power from the battery typically connects to the copper buss bar side of that same breaker.

I'm trying to find out why after being plugged into shore power, I hear a clicking noise in the battery compartment. I think it may be one of the breakers clicking on and off. The lights inside go on and off. I need some help on this. Thanks

Clicking noise could be a breaker tripping. Most of the breakers are auto-reset and they'll take 5-15 seconds to reset when tripped.

The lights inside going on and off indicate something is sucking all the output from the Power Converter. Probably related to the clicking - especially if the clicking noise coincides with the lights going on and off. To isolate, disconnect one wire at a time from the non-copper-buss bar side of each breaker, except the one from the Power Converter. If the problem doesn't stop, reconnect the wire and move to the next breaker. While doing this, leave the battery disconnected. When you find the wire that has the problem, you'll have to figure out by a process of elimination what it powers. But my guess is that even while connected there's something that doesn't work. Stabilizers? A slide driven by electric motor rather than hydraulics?

wdk450 · Oct 13, 2020

Maybe this user-generated document on the 12 volt DC system typically used in Heartland large towable RV's might help. It is from our forum library accessible at the top of any forum page under "Tools" then "Manuals" then submenus.

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org...d Tips/12V Block Diagram & Diagnostics V2.pdf

lazyp · Oct 13, 2020

Danemyer is there any way that I might be able to speak to you on the phone, I don't necessarily want to post my phone here so maybe you can private message me on facebook at kim.petersen.9212 I'm having a heck of a time trying to find this problem. Thanks. Kim

wdk450 said:
Maybe this user-generated document on the 12 volt DC system typically used in Heartland large towable RV's might help. It is from our forum library accessible at the top of any forum page under "Tools" then "Manuals" then submenus.

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org...d Tips/12V Block Diagram & Diagnostics V2.pdf

lazyp · Oct 13, 2020

Thank you. That is good information to have.

wdk450 said:
Maybe this user-generated document on the 12 volt DC system typically used in Heartland large towable RV's might help. It is from our forum library accessible at the top of any forum page under "Tools" then "Manuals" then submenus.

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org...d Tips/12V Block Diagram & Diagnostics V2.pdf

battery charge problems-mini circuit breakers

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