ATF: Cyclone - Loading ramp failure

[dbhutchins]

The loading ramp on my 2009 Cyclone 3210 has started to fail. The plywood core has cracked and is bending downward over the top of the hinges when the door is opened. The non-skid coating has pulled apart across about 3/4 of the width of the door. I'm on a cross-country trip with my Motorcycle aboard, so I'm only opening the door when necessary. When closed, the door is fine (exterior sheeting is intact) bue when open the frame is bending and the core splitting apart. I'm worried about a total failure before I get home to the Seattle area in April. The unit is out of warranty, but this seems to me an extreme case of faulty materials (the plywood core must have been defective unless the design is inadequate, but I doubt that's the case). Need factory advice on a fix, and whether Heartland will stand behind the product in this case. Please advise ASAP. Currently in S. Florida - will be returning to Seattle in March/April.

 

[Lynn1130]

Interestingly there was a recent thread about water leaking around the outside of the ramp door and getting into the internal wood on the door. I can't find it now, but the person who posted it was recommending sealing the outside of the perimeter of the door. There have been many posts about the ramp door failures. It appears to be something that Heartland needs to help us out with. Either a fix, a recall, but something that will correct this and avoid what could be a serious accident for an owner or user.

Since you are in Seattle, I would suspect that water could be a factor

 

[Lynn1130]

I found it. Search "sealing ramp door".

 

[dbhutchins]

Thanks for that. I found the previous threads. I doubt water is causing this, because the rig's stored under a shed roof. But if water can get into the door core, then the design is clearly defective and it should be replaced anyway. I'm waiting to see if Heartland will respond. I've also emailed Lippert, and am waiting for a response from them. Not a pretty picture. Sure hope something is done before the thing goes into catastrophic failure...

 

[powerhouse]

I also have a 2009 3210 with exactly the same problem. I called Heartland and they refused to help since I was 2 months out of warranty. The problem appears to be the hinges and related springs put so much pressure on the door when it is open that it breaks right above the hinge. I ended up repairing it myself. I had to remove the door (not an easy job) and take it apart to replace the broken plywood and I added a 1/8 " piece of diamond plate aluminum to the inside of the door and a 1/8" piece of plain aluminum to the outside where the hinges attach. It's now strong enough to load and unload my full dress Harley without ever worrying about it breaking again. Heartland wanted over $2000 to ship me a new door so this seemed to be the least expensive and most logical way to go.

 

[1231ChaseB]

Hi All I comented on the door NOT having any silicone around the outer frame work and any time you wash it or it rains water get in there ! I was just changing the rusty washers on mine when i ran into all the rust ! Water getting in there is the only way all that rust could have occured !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JMHO !
chaseb

 

[ultrafarmer]

This is bad news, I guess mine will be next... I have fixed so many things already,, I never thought of the rear door..

 

[dbhutchins]

Well, there may be light at the end of the tunnel on this problem. Dusty from Heartland phoned me yesterday and asked for photos. They're concerned, and want to discuss the issue with Lippert. I'll be unloading the bike this afternoon in Key West and will take photos for them and send 'em on. Also: I filed an email gripe with Lippert, and they have at least responded, though asking for manufacture and purchase date and photos. I'll be responding to them also, and will keep this thread updated as it progresses.

 

[Lynn1130]

Thanks for the update. I suspected that Heartland would at least give this a look. My experiences with them have been very good.

 

[dbhutchins]

Well - I emailed the photos to Heartland and to Lippert last week. Nothing heard yet, though it's probaby fair to give 'em a few days to ponder the issue. Photos that I sent them are attached. I'll keep this posted...Don

 

[recumbent615]

I also have a 2009 3210 with exactly the same problem. I called Heartland and they refused to help since I was 2 months out of warranty. The problem appears to be the hinges and related springs put so much pressure on the door when it is open that it breaks right above the hinge. I ended up repairing it myself. I had to remove the door (not an easy job) and take it apart to replace the broken plywood and I added a 1/8 " piece of diamond plate aluminum to the inside of the door and a 1/8" piece of plain aluminum to the outside where the hinges attach. It's now strong enough to load and unload my full dress Harley without ever worrying about it breaking again. Heartland wanted over $2000 to ship me a new door so this seemed to be the least expensive and most logical way to go.

Powerhouse, do you have any photos of the work you did? It may help some of us determine if we need/want to do so preventive modifications to our units....

after reading the earlier posts on this subject I was thinking of a way to avoid the same fate ( I am also out of warranty )

Thanks

 

[dbhutchins]

Here's the latest news: Lippert has offered to ship me a new door as a good will gesture, despite the unit being out of warranty. I will have to pay for the shipping and installation costs. I've accepted this, as I think it's fair.
Now: given that I think the design is defective, I'm going to reinforce the new door before installing it. I plan to through-bolt an aluminum diamond-plate 12" high by the width of the door to the inside surface of the inner door, through the hinge bolts and through the door itself about 8" above the hinges. That plate will resist the bending across the top of the hinges and should prevent further failure. I'll attach photos to this thread once I do the job, in late April or May.
The real fix should be Lippert lengthening the hinges by about 6", which would reduce the bending force across that point. Only careful inspection of doors on next year's models and beyond will reveal whether they do this or not. I sure hope they do...

Don Hutchins

 

[porthole]

Door failures seem to have just about gone away with the 2010 models. Maybe your replacement door is built to new standards.

Did you know MOR/ryde builds ramp doors? But just like their slam baggage doors, they are too well built and as a result too expensive.

 

[tgreening]

This thread reminded me of a youtube video I saw the other day. Someone boon-docking the desert and getting ready to load up the 4-wheelers and such. When he dropped the ramp it actually floated about a foot or so off the ground and the owner had to put his foot on it and force it down so the bikes could load. I'm not saying that's the case here, but I'd bet at least a number of failures are due to too much over extension of the ramp. I will say though that this is something that should be addressed by the factory through travel limiters of some sort. Otherwise people will have no clue they are doing damage, and end up fighting with someone to get a repair done. I doubt most folks even give this a second thought when dropping the ramp, just assuming it will drop however far it needs to and that's the end of it. Thankfully I had read of these issues and have been conscious of the terrain when dropping mine. No issues so far.

 

[Urban350]

My ramp door floats when the patio railing is removed. I did not think that extra 50lbs would make that much difference.

 

[Lynn1130]

I'm a little disappointed in the response if the only action is going to be them sending you a door. Either Lippert or Heartland should fix this problem or come up with a fix that can be applied to the rest of the units that are now in use. I would also be interested in knowing what you find inside your door. Was there water intrusion that weakened the wood and thus caused the failure with the pressure from the hinges?

I do plan on sealing around the outside of the door to try to prevent water from getting inside and to the wood.

 

[dbhutchins]

RE: the "floating" door - yea, it floats about 8" above ground level when opened on a level surface. But it's obvious that you have to force it down to the ground to load or unload your cargo. All that says is that the springs are a bit stronger than they really need to be. The door shouldn't break from the pressure of the spring-loaded hinges. But it does, which means the design is defective. It is possible the core plywood was weakened by water getting in, as the unit sat in the open at the dealer for over a year before I bought it new. But again, that's a bum design. Water shouldn't be getting into the door in the first place. As to the problem disappearing in the 2010 models and newer: I'm afraid that's just wishful thinking. There's a guy in my campground here in FL with a 2011, who's door is identical to mine, except that somebody added zerk fittings to the hinges so they can be lubed. That tells me that door has had problems too. I'm looking for longer hinges on the doors as the logical fix. Short of that - I'd be keeping a very close eye on your doors!

 

[vgstef]

What about the new model 3010 , look like the door is 8 foot. Maybe that can be the fix .

 

[dbhutchins]

Latest update:

We unloaded the bike in MS early this month. The door was close to complete failure, but worked well enough to get it out. When I opened it to put it back in, the door broke right apart at the hinges. I could barely force it shut and get the latches closed to seal her up for the rest of the trip home. Once I get home I've got to fly back to MS and ride the bike home. Major bummer!

RE: other responses. The 3010 appears to have the same door, as do many other toy-boxes (lots of mfgrs buy from Lippert). I have seen different numbers of hinges and springs, though. Mine has 7 hinges and 6 springs. I've seen others with fewer springs, which seems a good idea to me, as that would reduce the bending force across the top of the hinges. In addition to reinforcing the new door, I've decided I'll also remove two of the springs. The spring pressure that holds the door floating above level ground when open is clearly not needed for reasonably easy closing, and just adds to the problem.

I'll post more when I've replaced the door (and brought my bike home!). Meanwhile - keep a close eye on your doors!

 

[dbhutchins]

So: some months later, the problem has been fixed. As noted earlier, Lippert offered a new door as a "goodwill gesture", if I'd pay the shipping and installation. I agreed rather than waste months arguing for full compensation. The new door is identical to the old one - therefore as far as I'm concerned NOT an adequate design. So I had my shop reinforce the door by sandwiching the hinge area between two sheets of 3/16 diamond plate. That required shimming the hinges out from the frame with a piece of 3/16 steel plate as well. Photo attached. They also added sealant all the way around the door to ensure water doesn't get into the core, and put on a bigger weather seal around the door. They confirmed when pulling off the old broken door that it had been thoroughly soaked inside - which probably was the immediate cause of the failure. My shop added that they don't believe this door as constructed is adequate for anything heavier than lightweight bikes. My 800 lb BMW is outside that definition, as will be many larger bikes hauled around in these things.

All I can add is "caveat emptor" to anybody using a Toy-Hauler with a Lippert door. They may well rate the "carrying capacity" of the garage as 2500 lb. But notice there is nothing about the load rating of the door/ramp! The reinforcement/improvements cost me about $1300, materials & labor. And as far as I'm concerned, it was money well spent. I don't expect this thing to fail again! Peace of mind, anybody?

Don