G_Hage
Active Member
OK folks, you've just decided to take that leap of faith and dump anywhere from tens of thousands to over a hundred thousand dollars of your hard earned dineros into your future home on wheels. You have researched well and know all you should know to make the right choice, or so you think! Remember, you get one chance to do this right and make the process of picking, purchasing, and then owning your new or used RV a pleasurable experience. So, have you thought the following through before you sign that purchase order?
The differences in RV manufacturers is:
Some build there units completely in house, meaning frames up with the only out sourced components being the axles, suspension, appliances, fixtures etc. which are manufactured by a third party supplier and installed by the RV Builder. All components of your soon to be Fiver will have a warranty, right? [MORE ON THAT LATER] Others out source the frame, axles, suspension, sidewall framing, slide boxes, etc. and become little more than assemblers of the soon to be Fiver.
Is one method of building your Fiver better than the other? Depends on how you feel about it. By building EVERYTHING in house, the RV manufacturer has FULL control of the quality and construction of these components. Yet it cost money for raw materials and labor to ad these departments to their lines. Of course these cost are passed down to the consumer. The builder that out sources saves money. The third party component builder can build it cheaper because they buy the raw materials in larger quantities and at a better prices, plus labor cost differ to build it. This savings gets passed down the line to the consumer.
The other differences in RV Builders is in the model year release:
Some RV builders take a more aggressive approach to releasing the NEXT model year units than others. What do I mean by this? In the highly competitive RV market and the current and ongoing slump in the economy, RV manufacturers are having to do everything they can to stay alive until the economy snaps back. From cutting staff, cutting corners, building less expensive, etc. Those that chose not to have fallen by the wayside like Teton Homes, HictchHiker, Newmar (fifthwheel division) and others. They could no longer compete in a soft market with their well built high end products against the more affordable manufacturers that were able to make their units appear luxurious inside and out. But are the more affordable equally built when it comes to structural integrity? Good question. Researching that subject well will give you the answers you need.
Ways to buy an RV:
1. You buy your brand new Fiver off the lot. It will be a spec model that was built on a certain manufacture date, shipped to the lot and waited how ever long for you to come and take it home with you. [MORE ON THIS LATER]
2. You pick a manufacturer's floorplan and have the factory build your unit, ship it to your dealer, and you pick it up and take it home knowing your Fiver was born (built) just a matter of weeks or just a few months ago.
3. You buy a used Fiver based on the model year the dealer and title tell you it is [ those numbers typically will match and be reflected in the unit's vin or serial number), and the condition and asking price of the unit at the time of you purchasing it.
So, is the Fiver you're about to buy really as new as you think:
We can easily rule out choice number 2. its a no brainer! Be careful with choices 1 and 3 though. If its really important to you about such things as "How many years has that 12 year rubber roof on your unit really been exposed to the elements etc., or the vinyl graphics or full body paint. How much wear and tear is really on the suspension, frame, shell framing, plumbing, electrical, of the unit? The process of all of these components and materials begin the moment that Fiver rolled out of the factory door and into the new world to begin its life. How would that affect me you ask? It could affect you more than you think in many ways financially. Hear me out cause this may be important!
CASE EXAMPLE:
I will use my own purchase of our luxury Fiver this past January as an example, but you will note I am deliberately being non brand specific (other than having referred to brands no longer in business or building Fiver) for a reason.
Found our used 2008 Fiver at America Choice RV where we live. It was a beautifully kept unit that although lived in full time by the first owners, based on the wear and tear it hardly looked used. The original title indicated it as also being a 2008. So based on the knowledge that the new model year units typically release almost a year early, our unit most likely was built in 2007 which if originally bought as a spec model of a lot, taking the date I bought it Jan 15, 2013 and assuming it was built Feb-April, 2007 (new models typically release Apr/May I'm told by my dealer, the actual age of my unit should have been just shy of six years old. NOT! Because somebody had painted over the manufacturers sticker on the pin box (hid it well!) and all I could find was a number stamped in a frame rail, it would not be until after we took our new to us used 2008 fiver home. Afterwards we would learn it was built in early 2006. How can that be and it called and titled a 2008?
Unlike the auto industry, per our research, DMV allows the RV industry place units with model year designations of up to twenty-four months [newer] than the actual calender year and title them as such. Example a 2006 build dated unit can and is titled as a 2008 as in the case of mine. If you are provided no history on the unit, its actual age becomes a guess unless you call the prior owner or the factory, and that's a WHOLE another story!
LETS GET BACK TO COMPONENTS AND WARRANTIES:
You're buying that NEW Fiver from your dealer. It has a manufacturers warranty with the RV builders name on it. If you have any issues during the warranty (who by the who's duration started the day you bought your unit) the dealer as a factory authorized repair center or the builder themselves will take care of the repairs at the builders expense as outlined in your warranty. Right? Think again.
Back to my case in point. Original owner buys what now is our Fiver mid 2007. Builder's warranty clock begins there and wouldn't one believe that includes the all important axles, suspension, and frame. After all, the integrity of the structural life of your Fiver depends on it. Mid 2009 the axles and suspension fail while traveling down an interstate, dropping the Fiver and stressing (bending) the frame and the body of the fiver. No Worries. WRONG!!! In contacting the RV Builder it is learned that failure will be the responsibility of the out sourced frame builder (who also built the axles and suspension) to repair at their expense. Frame builder says they are not responsible because those components are already out of warranty. How could that be?
Remember the 2006 build date? Unlike the RV builder's warranty start date the day of the actual customer purchase, the frame builder's warranty started from the date the frame was built, shipped and the structure built upon it. So, the year the unit sat on the RV lot waiting for someone to come along and buy it, the warranty clock's time was clicking away on those most important components, unknown to the future buyer.
So when an issue similar to this happens and one component is damaged by another's component failure, why should the owner end up being passed back and forth? Obviously the one manufacturer should not have to bare the burden and expense of making costly repairs that were not caused by there own workmanship, but so the battles go.
How does the build dates and model/title year designations affect the value of my Fiver?
Well it depends on the market and NADA values at the time. In the case of our unit, as the lender was attempting to determine a fair market and loan value, they were unable to access a 2008 NADA value on it because it does not exist. They stop at 2007! With nothing to go by, the lender was forced to use the 2007 low and average retail values which could have hurt or helped us. Thank God that at the clearance price of $27,750 we were purchasing this unit at, it fell below the $36,500.00 NADA low value at the time. Had we been buying a few weeks prior when the unit was price at $36,750.00 it would have been an issue. Since in 2008 it appears our floor plan was no longer being built, no NADA value was created nor continually updated each year. Calculating a loan and retail value down the road will also be an issue in the event we trade or sell the unit.
SO WHATS MY POINT IN ALL OF THIS:
To educate you, the potential RV buyer, especially if you are a first time buyer like us. We are thorough with our research on anything we buy, yet a few things slipped even past us. Why, because nobody shares the above information with you, the potential buyer.
My sales rep when we purchased our unit did go so far as to complain about how one of the brand Fivers they sell that has already put the 2015 model year of their product on the lots is hurting the values of other unsold new models that are 2013s or older. This practice has a negative trickle affect on the value of the units.
So in closing, research your perspective Fiver and how its built and who built what and how the manufacturers warranties over lap each other. For example check to see that the out sourced frame builder's warranty will in fact begin on the purchase date of that new Fiver and not when the unit was built, however long ago that was. Ask if in the event the frame, axles, or suspension fails while the Fiver is under warranty and damages the shell/slides/etc. of the unit who will be responsible for those repairs and will they step up to the plate and make the needed repairs at their expense. Check or be shown the actual manufacture date ON the unit and then decide if the actual age of the Fiver is OK with you before you purchase. Even though it is a new Fiver that is now 1-2 model years old and it is being offered at a great clearance price today, research the NADA values on that unit. Go back 3-4 years on that model if they exist and calculate an average annual depreciation rate. It will help give you an idea what your Fiver is really going to be worth the moment after you tow it off of the sales lot. Doesn't matter if you plan on keeping it a while, things can change without warning causing you to have to sell. Try and minimize your losses as much as you can by being a smart buyer.
So what's the best way to go,1,2,0r 3? I'll leave that choice to you.
The differences in RV manufacturers is:
Some build there units completely in house, meaning frames up with the only out sourced components being the axles, suspension, appliances, fixtures etc. which are manufactured by a third party supplier and installed by the RV Builder. All components of your soon to be Fiver will have a warranty, right? [MORE ON THAT LATER] Others out source the frame, axles, suspension, sidewall framing, slide boxes, etc. and become little more than assemblers of the soon to be Fiver.
Is one method of building your Fiver better than the other? Depends on how you feel about it. By building EVERYTHING in house, the RV manufacturer has FULL control of the quality and construction of these components. Yet it cost money for raw materials and labor to ad these departments to their lines. Of course these cost are passed down to the consumer. The builder that out sources saves money. The third party component builder can build it cheaper because they buy the raw materials in larger quantities and at a better prices, plus labor cost differ to build it. This savings gets passed down the line to the consumer.
The other differences in RV Builders is in the model year release:
Some RV builders take a more aggressive approach to releasing the NEXT model year units than others. What do I mean by this? In the highly competitive RV market and the current and ongoing slump in the economy, RV manufacturers are having to do everything they can to stay alive until the economy snaps back. From cutting staff, cutting corners, building less expensive, etc. Those that chose not to have fallen by the wayside like Teton Homes, HictchHiker, Newmar (fifthwheel division) and others. They could no longer compete in a soft market with their well built high end products against the more affordable manufacturers that were able to make their units appear luxurious inside and out. But are the more affordable equally built when it comes to structural integrity? Good question. Researching that subject well will give you the answers you need.
Ways to buy an RV:
1. You buy your brand new Fiver off the lot. It will be a spec model that was built on a certain manufacture date, shipped to the lot and waited how ever long for you to come and take it home with you. [MORE ON THIS LATER]
2. You pick a manufacturer's floorplan and have the factory build your unit, ship it to your dealer, and you pick it up and take it home knowing your Fiver was born (built) just a matter of weeks or just a few months ago.
3. You buy a used Fiver based on the model year the dealer and title tell you it is [ those numbers typically will match and be reflected in the unit's vin or serial number), and the condition and asking price of the unit at the time of you purchasing it.
So, is the Fiver you're about to buy really as new as you think:
We can easily rule out choice number 2. its a no brainer! Be careful with choices 1 and 3 though. If its really important to you about such things as "How many years has that 12 year rubber roof on your unit really been exposed to the elements etc., or the vinyl graphics or full body paint. How much wear and tear is really on the suspension, frame, shell framing, plumbing, electrical, of the unit? The process of all of these components and materials begin the moment that Fiver rolled out of the factory door and into the new world to begin its life. How would that affect me you ask? It could affect you more than you think in many ways financially. Hear me out cause this may be important!
CASE EXAMPLE:
I will use my own purchase of our luxury Fiver this past January as an example, but you will note I am deliberately being non brand specific (other than having referred to brands no longer in business or building Fiver) for a reason.
Found our used 2008 Fiver at America Choice RV where we live. It was a beautifully kept unit that although lived in full time by the first owners, based on the wear and tear it hardly looked used. The original title indicated it as also being a 2008. So based on the knowledge that the new model year units typically release almost a year early, our unit most likely was built in 2007 which if originally bought as a spec model of a lot, taking the date I bought it Jan 15, 2013 and assuming it was built Feb-April, 2007 (new models typically release Apr/May I'm told by my dealer, the actual age of my unit should have been just shy of six years old. NOT! Because somebody had painted over the manufacturers sticker on the pin box (hid it well!) and all I could find was a number stamped in a frame rail, it would not be until after we took our new to us used 2008 fiver home. Afterwards we would learn it was built in early 2006. How can that be and it called and titled a 2008?
Unlike the auto industry, per our research, DMV allows the RV industry place units with model year designations of up to twenty-four months [newer] than the actual calender year and title them as such. Example a 2006 build dated unit can and is titled as a 2008 as in the case of mine. If you are provided no history on the unit, its actual age becomes a guess unless you call the prior owner or the factory, and that's a WHOLE another story!
LETS GET BACK TO COMPONENTS AND WARRANTIES:
You're buying that NEW Fiver from your dealer. It has a manufacturers warranty with the RV builders name on it. If you have any issues during the warranty (who by the who's duration started the day you bought your unit) the dealer as a factory authorized repair center or the builder themselves will take care of the repairs at the builders expense as outlined in your warranty. Right? Think again.
Back to my case in point. Original owner buys what now is our Fiver mid 2007. Builder's warranty clock begins there and wouldn't one believe that includes the all important axles, suspension, and frame. After all, the integrity of the structural life of your Fiver depends on it. Mid 2009 the axles and suspension fail while traveling down an interstate, dropping the Fiver and stressing (bending) the frame and the body of the fiver. No Worries. WRONG!!! In contacting the RV Builder it is learned that failure will be the responsibility of the out sourced frame builder (who also built the axles and suspension) to repair at their expense. Frame builder says they are not responsible because those components are already out of warranty. How could that be?
Remember the 2006 build date? Unlike the RV builder's warranty start date the day of the actual customer purchase, the frame builder's warranty started from the date the frame was built, shipped and the structure built upon it. So, the year the unit sat on the RV lot waiting for someone to come along and buy it, the warranty clock's time was clicking away on those most important components, unknown to the future buyer.
So when an issue similar to this happens and one component is damaged by another's component failure, why should the owner end up being passed back and forth? Obviously the one manufacturer should not have to bare the burden and expense of making costly repairs that were not caused by there own workmanship, but so the battles go.
How does the build dates and model/title year designations affect the value of my Fiver?
Well it depends on the market and NADA values at the time. In the case of our unit, as the lender was attempting to determine a fair market and loan value, they were unable to access a 2008 NADA value on it because it does not exist. They stop at 2007! With nothing to go by, the lender was forced to use the 2007 low and average retail values which could have hurt or helped us. Thank God that at the clearance price of $27,750 we were purchasing this unit at, it fell below the $36,500.00 NADA low value at the time. Had we been buying a few weeks prior when the unit was price at $36,750.00 it would have been an issue. Since in 2008 it appears our floor plan was no longer being built, no NADA value was created nor continually updated each year. Calculating a loan and retail value down the road will also be an issue in the event we trade or sell the unit.
SO WHATS MY POINT IN ALL OF THIS:
To educate you, the potential RV buyer, especially if you are a first time buyer like us. We are thorough with our research on anything we buy, yet a few things slipped even past us. Why, because nobody shares the above information with you, the potential buyer.
My sales rep when we purchased our unit did go so far as to complain about how one of the brand Fivers they sell that has already put the 2015 model year of their product on the lots is hurting the values of other unsold new models that are 2013s or older. This practice has a negative trickle affect on the value of the units.
So in closing, research your perspective Fiver and how its built and who built what and how the manufacturers warranties over lap each other. For example check to see that the out sourced frame builder's warranty will in fact begin on the purchase date of that new Fiver and not when the unit was built, however long ago that was. Ask if in the event the frame, axles, or suspension fails while the Fiver is under warranty and damages the shell/slides/etc. of the unit who will be responsible for those repairs and will they step up to the plate and make the needed repairs at their expense. Check or be shown the actual manufacture date ON the unit and then decide if the actual age of the Fiver is OK with you before you purchase. Even though it is a new Fiver that is now 1-2 model years old and it is being offered at a great clearance price today, research the NADA values on that unit. Go back 3-4 years on that model if they exist and calculate an average annual depreciation rate. It will help give you an idea what your Fiver is really going to be worth the moment after you tow it off of the sales lot. Doesn't matter if you plan on keeping it a while, things can change without warning causing you to have to sell. Try and minimize your losses as much as you can by being a smart buyer.
So what's the best way to go,1,2,0r 3? I'll leave that choice to you.
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