porthole
Retired
At that price I'm guessing they have a limited audience.
I'll stick with my partial trailer ABS. That extra 2 grand could go towards a new truck.
Brakes - Careful, You Might Get What You Asked For
- Thread starter wdk450
- Start date
At that price I'm guessing they have a limited audience.
I'll stick with my partial trailer ABS. That extra 2 grand could go towards a new truck.
wdk450
Well-known member
Gang:
As part of my frame/suspension overhaul, I wanted to buy some now disk brake pads for my MorRyde/Kodiak system locally. I have a Kodiak part number, but am not sure the local Orielly's can cross the number. I remember a post on the forum that had the equivilant car application that these pads are for. A quick search did not come up with the data. Anybody have this application or generic brake parts number for the pads?
As part of my frame/suspension overhaul, I wanted to buy some now disk brake pads for my MorRyde/Kodiak system locally. I have a Kodiak part number, but am not sure the local Orielly's can cross the number. I remember a post on the forum that had the equivilant car application that these pads are for. A quick search did not come up with the data. Anybody have this application or generic brake parts number for the pads?
wdk450
Well-known member
Yeah, I looked closer at my MorRyde/Kodiak Disk Brake manual, and the GM equivalents listing was right there at the bottom of the page. Got em!
Titanguy
Well-known member
Disc brake lag is real. There are 3 major mfg. of electric/hydraulic pumps, Carlisle, Dexter & Titan. Carlisle & Dexter use a 3 piston pump, pumping prox. 38 cu. in per min. Titan uses a 5 piston pump, pumping 72 cu in per min resulting in a 66% faster response time. Both Carlisle & Dexter will get to 250 psi (activation) in 1.1-1.3 sec. vs Titan .3 sec to activate. Titan will take 1.0 sec to get to 1500 psi (max pressure) vs. 2.8-3.3 sec for Carlisle & Dexter. Keep in mind activation time is the most important as this is where you feel the brakes kick in.
TandT
Founding Utah Chapter Leaders-Retired
I have spoken with the Titan rep the last two RV shows I have been to. He explained their technology uses a constant low voltage current to the actuator anytime the trailer is plugged into the TV. So in effect it is constantly in a ready mode. According to Titan, this is why their lag time is far less than the other two mfgrs that are mentioned.
The other two systems receive no signal at all until after the TV brake pedal is applied.
Another plus is Titan uses standard GM brake pads, that can be obtained at any auto parts store.
I am sold on Titan when I install disc brakes on my rig. Trace
The other two systems receive no signal at all until after the TV brake pedal is applied.
Another plus is Titan uses standard GM brake pads, that can be obtained at any auto parts store.
I am sold on Titan when I install disc brakes on my rig. Trace
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porthole
Retired
Some history and real world info would be helpful. If the system is constantly running in a "standby mode", how does that affect pump life, pad wear, fluid life?
Is the pump running and flowing fluid or just just running and holding pressure?
Brake lag is real, and you kind of get use to it. But when you think about it, it is noticeable right away. And if you come off of using a Prodigy that has the boost feature it is real noticeable, but that is just the lag part, not stopping part.
Some of the installers have added 1/4" line going from the pump to the T's on the axle. My thoughts is that doesn't work, as you are trying to move even more fluid on top of the lag.
Over 5 years ago I wrote to Carlisle about the lag and offered my suggestions, one of which was the residual current to keep the pump running. That along with a few other ideas were shrugged off as being undoable.
Looking at the Titan site, there seems to be two different models with wiring differences, but not specific in the descriptions as to what the difference is. Brakerite II and Brake EHB.
It also seems to be that neither will work on the newer Fords or GM without an additional adapter. That is a plus on the Carlisle side.
Having an integrated TBC and then getting the suggestion to add an aftermarket controller seems counter productive.
The 2011+ Ford trailer brake controller is the most advanced system installed in truck, how nicely will the Titan play?
I would really like a brake controller and pump combo that minimized the lag, but, I would not give up the added benefits of Ford's TBC if using a pump required a PM black box to make things work and ended up neutering the capabilities.
"If" the Titan pump is truly superior in all aspects, I would like to try one. You tend to notice lag more as trailer weight increases. Especially noticeable with toy haulers that may change the load from trip to trip by 2000-2500 pounds.
So does the Kodiak system.
porthole
Retired
Is that correct?
wdk450
Well-known member
So what I think I am learning from this discussion of hydraulic brake actuator lag on trailer disk brakes systems (and my experience of grinding flat spots into my trailer tires) is that I should not have the controller cranked up so high, but I should start braking about 3-4 seconds before I would normally, and the braking effect will ramp up in that time. I see this ramp up effect when I am doing my initial slow speed manual control (not brake pedal) braking test. There I now feel the 3-4 second delay as the braking pressure ramps up. Should I have full boost (setting B2) set on my Prodigy controller? I have an 8K GVW Bighorn.
Titanguy
Well-known member
The Brakerite EHB is what is used on 95% of RV Trailer applications where there are 5 wires that are wired into the 7 way.
The Brakerite II is exactly the same pump just with plug n play specifically designed for OEM Boat Trailer mfg.
The pump does not run at all in standby mode. Having the pump wired directly to the house battery provides a split sec. better response but not measureable. Measureable response time differences comes from the 3 piston vs 5 piston pump.
I don’t consider fluid life or pad life material because they are easily replaced at a low cost. The pump life is a completely different story. At prox. $600 the pump is a big part of the system.
Because the Titan pump spins up faster & pumps more fluid, it doesn’t need to run as long as the competitors. Hence it is a cooler running pump. If you look at Carlisle pump instructions it warns to use the parking brake when stopped at railroad crossings or extended stops because of potential overheating resulting in pump damage. Also the Titan fluid reservoir hold twice the volume as the Carlisle pump contributing to Titan’s cooler operation.
The Titan EHB will work on all newer 2010+ Ford & GM trucks without the “black box”. Over the past 7+ years all pumps have had periodic issues with talking nicely to OEM integrated controllers. Most fixes are as easy as having the dealer update the brake controller electronics. No known issues exist with TV using aftermarket controllers. 98% of all integrated controllers work fine but when you are in the 2% it can be easily fixed.
I attended the Airstream International Rally in Gillette, Wy in July. Carlisle is the OEM pump on all Airstreams with disc brakes. We fixed 5 units that had excessive lag 2-4 sec. by installing Titan’s Ford/Chevy adapter on the Carlisle system. These may or may not have been current production Carlisle units. I am just not sure.
I had a 2011 Ram 3500 DRW that needed dealer TBC updates to talk nice where the 2014 Ram 3500 DRW worked perfectly.
The Brakerite II is exactly the same pump just with plug n play specifically designed for OEM Boat Trailer mfg.
The pump does not run at all in standby mode. Having the pump wired directly to the house battery provides a split sec. better response but not measureable. Measureable response time differences comes from the 3 piston vs 5 piston pump.
I don’t consider fluid life or pad life material because they are easily replaced at a low cost. The pump life is a completely different story. At prox. $600 the pump is a big part of the system.
Because the Titan pump spins up faster & pumps more fluid, it doesn’t need to run as long as the competitors. Hence it is a cooler running pump. If you look at Carlisle pump instructions it warns to use the parking brake when stopped at railroad crossings or extended stops because of potential overheating resulting in pump damage. Also the Titan fluid reservoir hold twice the volume as the Carlisle pump contributing to Titan’s cooler operation.
The Titan EHB will work on all newer 2010+ Ford & GM trucks without the “black box”. Over the past 7+ years all pumps have had periodic issues with talking nicely to OEM integrated controllers. Most fixes are as easy as having the dealer update the brake controller electronics. No known issues exist with TV using aftermarket controllers. 98% of all integrated controllers work fine but when you are in the 2% it can be easily fixed.
I attended the Airstream International Rally in Gillette, Wy in July. Carlisle is the OEM pump on all Airstreams with disc brakes. We fixed 5 units that had excessive lag 2-4 sec. by installing Titan’s Ford/Chevy adapter on the Carlisle system. These may or may not have been current production Carlisle units. I am just not sure.
I had a 2011 Ram 3500 DRW that needed dealer TBC updates to talk nice where the 2014 Ram 3500 DRW worked perfectly.
Titanguy
Well-known member
Bill, I don't care what brand of pump you have, there should not be a 3-4 sec delay. Your controller is not talking nice to you pump. Parked, with the trailer hooked up. While standing by the pump, have someone step on the brakes. You should hear the pump start within 1 sec.
You can private message me and I will help you through this. Need to know the pump brand & serial# Both Carlisle and Dexter have had some recalls.
porthole
Retired
Hey Bill, when I was using a Prodigy I changed the setting based on highway or in town.
Those boost settings IIRC only increase the initial voltage when first hitting the pedal.
Max braking was unaffected by the boost setting.
Around town I would add the boost, level two I think.
Once on the highways though, the boost feature was not noticeable (longer controlled braking scenarios).
Those boost settings IIRC only increase the initial voltage when first hitting the pedal.
Max braking was unaffected by the boost setting.
Around town I would add the boost, level two I think.
Once on the highways though, the boost feature was not noticeable (longer controlled braking scenarios).
porthole
Retired
So to be clear - wired directly to the house battery means that the pump is wired directly, not the controls and the pump is not spinning at a residual flow all the time. But, when the controls activates the pump, the pump is being powered directly from the house battery, correct?
For my own reasons I could see the benefit of that.
But, since there is no measurable reasoning for doing this - why do it?
My comment on fluid and pad life was based on the your initial description without defining wired directly.
I don't consider pad life critical as well. But that is because I can buy the pads inexpensively - anywhere, and I can change them myself in 15 minutes. Because of that I run a high gain on my controller, I let the trailer brakes work.
To the average RV'er that can't do the work, trailer disc brake jobs could be as much as a rip off as automotive pad replacement.
At the time I had my DB's installed, the Carlisle pump was the only pump listed as working correctly with the new Ford's.
If the Titan will work seamlessly with the newer vehicle - someone needs to update the website.
And I for one would want to know that it will specifically work with the 2011+ Ford TBC, without issue. Keeping in mind that the Ford system does more then just apply brakes in normal stopping.
I saw on the web that it was only 5 wires. So if 5 wires wired into the 7 way - where is the wired directly to the house battery come into play?
Reasoning?
Will this pump incorporate a reverse lock out?
Titanguy
Well-known member
What do you mean by reverse lock out?
Titanguy
Well-known member
The Brakerite II is exactly the same pump just with plug n play specifically designed for OEM Boat Trailer mfg. Reasoning?
Boat trailers use hydraulic brakes, the options are drum or disc brakes and surge or EOH actuator. OEM's want to expedite installation so Titan will use existing plug n play wiring harness or custom design one for that specific mfg. Reasoning? Faster Installation
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