Can we legally make a 2500 into a 3500?

[Miltp920]

I have a 2003 GMC Sierra crew cab 4x4 Duramax 6.6 with Allison trans. I bought a two axle 2014 cyclone 3100 because that is the most weight 16,000lbs I knew I could legally pull. A few people have told me that the 3500 is the same truck, motor, transmission, just has an extra leaf spring to carry more weight. I really like the 4100 floor plan, but did not want to buy a new truck and a new toy hauler. Can I upgrade my 2500 and legally pull the 4100, 18,000lb toy hauler? If not legally, is anyone doing it? Does the 4100 - 18,000 lbs mean I have to buy a dually to get the job done? I love my 3100, but I still find myself looking at the pictures of that 4100.

 

[olcoon]

Legal…I'm going to lean towards no. But there are a lot of people towing the bigger rigs with ¾ ton trucks set up like you are talking about. I ran across a widow a few days ago that is still camping, & she's pulling a 27' 5er with a ½ ton. Guess it boils down to whatever you think you can do.

 

[alex00]

You'll need to find out if your state regulates rvs as commercial vehicles. California exempts rvs as commercial so weight ratings don't necessarily apply. In my state there is no legal/illegal about making a 2500 into a 3500. As long as the vehicle is not "unsafe" it's good to go. Your state may have similar regulations.

 

[lynndiwagoner]

I added air bags and went to 19.5" BFGoodrich ST230 commercial tires. The tires are rated at 4500lbs apiece. This does not change the weight rating of the vehicle as printed on the door post but does give me the satisfaction of knowing that I have not exceeded the weight rating of the tires. I feel very comfortable towing this rig down the road. Good luck.

Lynn

 

[jmgratz]

Whatever you do to increase the load carrying capacity will not change the placard put on the vehicle by the manufacturer. You may have really changed the carrying capacity but it is legally the same as the placard. Some states do allow you to have it inspected by a legal authority to document the change and then get it retitled with the new load rating. This is much like building your own vehicle from scratch and getting it titled as 'homemade'.

 

[JohnDar]

Curious, what is the axle rated for?

 

[danemayer]

A few people have told me that the 3500 is the same truck, motor, transmission, just has an extra leaf spring to carry more weight.

To find out if this is true, compare the payload rating for similarly configured 2500/3500s. If there's only 200-300 pound difference, it's probably just a leaf spring. If it's a 1000-1500 pound difference, there must be more difference than 1 additional leaf spring.

When I shopped 2010 Dodge 3500 SRWs (2011 was not available), the payload was 200-300 pounds higher than the 2500. On the 2011 Ford and GMC, the difference was around 1500.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Adding all kinds of things to your truck WILL NOT make it legal. Adding one leaf spring does not make it a 3500. You would have to upgrade to a later drive train, brake size, front suspension and so on. If you spent 10K upgrading it.....you still have a sticker on the door that states what it is rated for. I'm not sure that an 03 2500 has a 5er rating of 17K. My 05 did..but it had more HP than your 03. It was rated at 17200 for a 5er....but you have figure in how much stuff you put in your truck. People, pets, fuel, hitch and stuff in the bed. My 05 loaded and ready to go was just under the GCVW of 22K and it was a C/C SB. My best advise to you is go weigh your rig you have now loaded for travel and see where you are on your GCVW. I would even weigh your CY by itself. You will be surprised how heavy your truck and CY is. One other "LEGAL" thing you need to look at is...what would your insurance company do if you were "illegal" in your weight ratings and you had an accident. It could be very ugly...they may not pay. This is all JMHO....but things to ponder. My advise to you if you want the bigger CY. Is to get a 2011 or newer 3500 DRW. OH, also check what endorsments you need to pull a 18K 5er. You might need a CDL.

 

[Miltp920]

Thanks to all who replied. You said what I expected. I do need to see if the CDL thing applies in Michigan. But since I will eventually leave Michigan with it, all of this great country is a possibility. Does everyone out there pulling three axles have a CDL?

 

[RoadJunkie]

Is anyone doing it? Sure. By observation, I have seen a large number of 3/4 ton trucks pulling larger 5er rigs. I have also seen 1 ton rigs that are way overloaded. Some say the only real "safe" method of towing your large rig is by using a dually. Some say...well actually you have read here what some say.

If you have ever had the...ahem...privlege, of having an insurance agent try to sell you a policy, then you know they use fear to drive the sale. That is fear of being under covered, fear of losing what you have, from a monetary sense. They will tell you all sorts of possibilities and, actually, the possibilities do exist. How probable will the possibilities actually occur is the gamble. In my opinion, it all boils down to your comfort level with what you are doing; do I buy insuranve because I simply can't live with uncertainty. There are several truck sizing options. What is your comfort level considering all options. No one here can answer that for you, except to say nope, can't make a legal 1 ton out of a 3/4 ton.

 

[danemayer]

We've had periodic discussions about legal issues and license requirements. The general understanding is that RVs for personal use are not commercial vehicles and are generally exempted from the requirements placed on commercial vehicles. HOWEVER, the laws vary by state. California probably has the strictest licensing requirements for larger RVs and require at minimum a non-commercial Class A license for heavier 5th wheels. The language in their law and booklets is crystal-clear on this point. But, at present they don't seem to care about enforcing the law.

There's also a widespread opinion that out-of-state RVers would be considered legal in California if legal in their home state. So if you're legal in your home state with a Class C license, your Class C license might be considered legal while visiting California; if they ever do start enforcing.

There's the insurance question of whether your insurance company might use overloading as an excuse to not pay in the case of an accident. I view this as being similar to running a stop sign, or speeding. Damages are routinely covered even in cases where breaking the law is the cause of the accident. Unless the policy language excluded payment in such a case, I doubt the insurance company could decline payment.

I have some concern over the possibility of a lawyer using overloading as the basis for a lawsuit claiming "depraved indifference." In states where damages for pain and suffering are capped, the cap may be removed if they demonstrate "depraved indifference." Knowingly driving in an unsafe condition might do the trick in a jury trial. I prefer to not put my life savings and/or home at risk.

But the largest concern is safety. To me, it's a bit like standing on the top step of a ladder. Lots of people do it and nothing bad happens. But if you're the guy who falls, that's no consolation. And your safety issues could end up hurting innocent bystanders.

 

[JohnDar]

Thanks to all who replied. You said what I expected. I do need to see if the CDL thing applies in Michigan. But since I will eventually leave Michigan with it, all of this great country is a possibility. Does everyone out there pulling three axles have a CDL?

Look up MCL Act 300 of 1949.

 

[papajoel55]

Hi Miltp920 you dont need a cdl in michigan but you are supposed to have an Rv drivers license take a 10 question test and you have.I lived in Michigan for 55 yrs just moved in 2011.now you can give you truck support like timbren,air bags,or even a leaf in your springs but that Does not make it a 3500 the 3500 has bigger axles bigger brakes and stronger springs.When i bought my first 5th wheel at general rv he said i could haul anything on his lot except the 3 axle rigs.i would be careful what you try to do. i use the timbren on mine just so it wont squat as bad and makes the truck feel more secure while towing.they told me that if i wanted to tow a 3 axle to get a dually.Hope this helps a little.
Joel

 

[JohnDar]

I've lived in Michigan for 65 years and have not heard of a "RV" license or special test.

 

[Birchwood]

DO NOT EXCEED YOUR TRUCKS RATED CAPACITIES.Ideas of upgrading trucks to a higher GVWR will only create problems for other RVers and soon we will all be stopping at scales.Its all about safety and I don't want an overloaded truck passing me on the road.

 

[papajoel55]

Hi John check it out with the secratary of state it is an endorsement you are supposed to have to tow two trailers at one time. i had it when i was there.they seem to have an endorsement for everything there LOL just kidding but they do have the one for "RV" i was shocked when i found about it also they have alot of rules for toing doubles in Michigan not saying that is a bad thing.this state half the trailers dont even have lights.it was nothing against Michigan just helping with info that i knew about.
Joel

 

[mdamerell]

Towing a 18,000# trailer is 1 issue, the other is the 3,600# pin weight. GVWR is probably 9,200# (check drivers door column) truck probably weights 7,000# so 2,000#? payload.

Probably only has a 6,084# rear axle. GCWR is 22,000# (7,000 truck + 18,000# trailer = 25,000#)

Personally, I think you are in dually area for pin weight. Heck according to Ford that trailer exceeds the capacity of my 2004 F350 dually (20,000# GCWR) maxes out the cargo capacity of my truck (11,500# GVWR - 8,200# (CAT Scale, us and fuel) = 3,300# of cargo).

The newer trucks have much higher ratings.

Being safe is more important than a bigger trailer.

 

[JohnDar]

Hi John check it out with the secratary of state it is an endorsement you are supposed to have to tow two trailers at one time. i had it when i was there.they seem to have an endorsement for everything there LOL just kidding but they do have the one for "RV" i was shocked when i found about it also they have alot of rules for toing doubles in Michigan not saying that is a bad thing.this state half the trailers dont even have lights.it was nothing against Michigan just helping with info that i knew about.
Joel

OK, Joel I looked it up. There is an endorsement "R" for double towing with a pickup truck. Not something I would, could or need to do with a 3670.

 

[DW_Gray]

There are options like the Automated Safety Hitch System (ASHS) that you could use instead of modifying your truck. But after looking at the specs on your truck and comparing it with the '03 3500, the GCWR is the same (22,000 pounds). I suspect you'll have some engine power issues trying to tow a 4100. The late model 2500s with the ASHS will tow it just fine.

 

[mattpopp]

There are options like the Automated Safety Hitch System (ASHS) that you could use instead of modifying your truck. But after looking at the specs on your truck and comparing it with the '03 3500, the GCWR is the same (22,000 pounds). I suspect you'll have some engine power issues trying to tow a 4100. The late model 2500s with the ASHS will tow it just fine.

2003 DuraMax power is more than capable of handling 18,000lbs. If you were expecting race car acceleration then it probably is a bad choice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk 3 HD