Electrical issue on 2020 Cyclone

[banbear]

Hello everyone. i found this forum from some google searching for my electrical issue.

I have a 2020 Cyclone 4007 model and i have been struggling to find the fix for my issue. When i am plugged into shore power, after a certain period of time, i lose certain lights on my RV.

- Front cap light
- Side scare lights
- Main bedroom recessed lights
- main kitchen recessed lights
- garage recessed lights

I also believe that i lose power to my water pump but this doesn't occur all the time.

If i turn on the generator while hooked up to shore power, those lights all come back on, but as soon as i shut it off they go out again.
If i disconnect from shore power, they all work running off battery.

Of course i take it into the shop and they don't have the issue occur.

it is intermittent and is frustrating when i am away for a weeks time and it occurs.

I was told to check the transfer switch and all looks good there with connections. I also checked the power converter and don't see any issues there either.

Can anyone shed any light on something else that could be the issue? Could it be a problem with my 50amp power cord or my surge protector that i use?

Also, is there any chance that the app is causing the issue? I use this alot when i am getting setup .

Thank you for any help or insight you can provide.

-Brandon

 

[6.7LMegaCab]

When on shore power, have you heard any sort of chattering? When plugged into shore power, turn off the breaker to the converter charger to see what happens. Either way, the lights should work as long as the batteries are charged... Which is what seems odd in your case.

If you have the ability to do so, perhaps pull the cover on the main panel and swap the wire that the converter charger is on to the other side (so if powered on L1, swap to a breaker on L2).

Now, when you are on shore power and start the generator, automatic transfer switches are designed to be generator primary, so when it detects power on the generator side, it is suppose to isolate power from the shore side to prevent backfeeding into the power grid, thus the reason things seem to be normal when on the generator.

What I found on my RV was that for what ever reason, between two ATS's, L1 didn't like dirty power (any fluctuation in power below 110V). This was causing a lot of issues, so, I installed a blue sea systems manual transfer switch and those problems went away. Prior to swapping over to a manual switch, the automatic transfer switch worked just fine on the generator. But I think what was happening is that the coils pull down when on shore power, but is essentially bypassed when on the generator so the contacts are constant. Whereas when on shore power, the coils just weren't up to par to work as they should by keeping the contacts pulled down.

Shortly after I bought my RV, I found that the person who wired it, didn't take any considerations for load balancing and if I recall had both ACs and converter charger on L1. I've since balanced the load among other changes.

Hopefully this kind helps get you going in the right direction.

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[wdk450]

A couple of voltage monitors might help you get an idea of what's going on.
A plug-in AC voltage monitor like this would help with the shore/generator power: https://www.ebay.com/itm/185246764787?epid=25017791994&hash=item2b21914ef3:g:SRcAAOSw-RRh2Giu

I have something like this wired into my tank monitor "test" switch so that it gives me a numeric 12 vdc reading when I press the rocker switch. You could just wire this into any 12 volt feed if you don't mind a continuous reading: https://www.ebay.com/itm/303952828656?hash=item46c50018f0:g:i9EAAOxyzi9SiNWw

The best voltage, current, and 60 Hz frequency readings on both 50 amp AC phases comes from the inside remote readout on my Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C power protection system. It continually readouts and cycles through these readings, along with protecting my rig and electrical/electronic devices from electrical power aberrations. https://www.progressiveindustries.net/ems-hw50c

 

[banbear]

Thank you both for the replies and help.

6.7LMegaCab - i don't hear any noises or chattering when this occurs. i will definitely try to to swap over the feeds and see if that helps. However...if it does...what does this tell me? My converter is bad? Or could i still have an issue in the Transfer Switch?

wdk450 - i will also purchase this Digital volt meter...but if i do plug this into the circuit, wouldn't it only tell me the voltage of that particular circuit? Because all other 12v items such as the TV...Plugs...Microwave etc all still work without and issue. Its only those smaller items that seem to be affected.

I am honestly just thinking about replacing the Transfer switch for process of elimination. Seems like something that would be pretty easy to do.

 

[6.7LMegaCab]

I think a clarification is needed (maybe - unless there was a typo in your last post?) - most devices in RVs that only work on shore or generator power would be 120V AC - so anything with a typical plug you would find on your house. Microwave, TVs, and even refrigerators - but the fridge can be configured for dual source (AC and Propane/12V). Good luck finding which plug is on which leg though if it isn't annotated on the panel when taking 120V readings.

Nearly all, if not all, lights, motors, hydraulics, etc, would be on a 12V system, to include the refrigerator when running on propane (if it's dual source). Most, if not all 12V items are wired through the DC panel that the batteries and converter charger is connected to and there should be a few automatic and/or manual 12V breakers by the batteries.

When the converter charger is working properly - it pretty much carries the load for all 12V items while you are running on the generator or plugged into shore power while also charging and maintaining the batteries.

Now, when you swap the converter to the other leg in the AC breaker box and plug into shore power - and the converter is working (lights that weren't working now are working) - that will tell you that perhaps the transfer switch isn't working properly - or something else is going on. If you swap it over and the results are the same, perhaps your converter isn't working correctly and perhaps the generator is charging the batteries, thus allowing those lights to work.

Going back to your original post - lights work on generator or battery but not on shore power or only for a little bit of time on shore power tells me that you also might have a bad breaker between the converter charger and batteries...not conclusive though as it seems something might be missing...

When I had a problem a few years ago, I noticed after running the generator all day, by night time, the batteries weren't fully charged (kind of typical as I have 6 batteries) and were slowly depleting over a few days camping. It was by the last day when I tried to operate the slides was when I realized the batteries were in fact not charging and I had to run the generator to operate the hydraulics. The culprit was a bad breaker that wasn't allowing the converter to charge the batteries.

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[banbear]

thank you for the clarification and excellent explanation.

It was a typo sort of...as i wasn't thinking that those items would be separate than the lights and other small devices.

I think what you said makes perfect sense and i will swap over the converter to the other leg and see if the lights and other components work. If they do work, this will pretty much tell me its a transfer switch issue.

I don't have any charging issues with the batteries that i know if as they always seem to have a at least a 3/4 charge. But again worth double checking now that i know this could help in the diagnosis.

Again, thank you so much for your help and insight.

 

[6.7LMegaCab]

Good luck and keep us posted on what you find out! This forum has been great helping me overcome issues I just couldn't wrap my head around, so I think you came to the right place. Lots of knowledge here!

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[banbear]

i wanted to update this thread.....i was able to get a new transfer switch and a new convert from Heartland (thank you Damon!)

I had it installed and took my first weekend trip and all is working perfectly now. Lights do not shut down at any time.

Now, i am not exactly sure which one caused the issue unfortunately, but replacing them both did the trick.

I reached out to Heartland to see if they wanted the old parts back to check. I am positive i can't be the only one with this issue.

Thanks again to everyone for their assistance.

 

[6.7LMegaCab]

Glad to hear Heartland took care of you and thank you for providing an update!

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[Jesstruckn/Jesstalkn]

All 12V issues. Sounds like a bad Ground to me. You might have fixed it while you were in there messing with things, but I would go back in and check all 12v ground wire connections. Remove the battery ground wire where it is connected to the frame clean it and make it better. Meaning drill it out and put a good bolt in it instead of the cheap self tapping screw that you probably have now. also grind the paint off the frame in that area.

here is a link to mine

https://heartlandowners.org/threads/project-lm-365.54076/post-441123

 

[wdk450]

Just 1 IMPORTANT clarification to 6.7L Megacab's excellent post, for future readers who may be scanning these threads:

Per: "Nearly all, if not all, lights, motors, hydraulics, etc, would be on a 12V system, to include the refrigerator when running on propane (if it's dual source). Most, if not all 12V items are wired through the DC panel that the batteries and converter charger is connected to and there should be a few automatic and/or manual 12V breakers by the batteries."
The line . . ."to include the refrigerator when it is running on propane" isn't accurate. Your RV refrigerator ALWAYS needs a source of 12 volt DC power. The logic circuit board on the back of the refrigerator uses 12 volts DC power to decide weather to turn on the 120 volt AC circuitry and drive the 120 volt AC relays for the boiler heater, or switching on the propane gas and lighting it in the propane mode of refrigeration.