jbeletti's Sundance 262 RB

[CDN]

POSSIBLE FUTURE MOD - DC to DC Battery Charging (Truck to RV)

As alluded to a few posts back, I am consider as a possible future modification, the addition of a DC to DC converter that can be used with the High Current Charge DC Power Outlet that I DO plan to add to the new truck.

Redarc, an Australian company makes a HD DC-DC Converter that can provide a 40 Amp charge output (depending on input current) - to the RV battery bank. The Redarc BCDC1240D has configurable charge profiles, including one for LiFePO4 batteries like the 4 I'm planning to have in the RV.

A few US retailers sell this. Here's a link to it on eTrailer - $430.

Here's an image of the Redarc BCDC1240D:
View attachment 60852
(click above image for larger view)

I've attached the manual for this product for anyone interested. Note that a 40 amp output unit is the largest they make. The 40 amp model only comes as a dual-input unit. The second input is designed for Solar. I would not use that input in my configuration. Any solar I may have will be connected to a Victron MPPT charge controller and then to the DC buss.

This device would be mounted somewhere close to the batteries. The space (likely under the bed or outside on the a-frame) will require additional venting to pull out generated heat and ensure the highest output current.

The power feed into this unit would be provided by an umbilical that I would create and terminate on the A-frame hitch into an Anderson SB175 connector housed inside a Trailer Vision housing with hinged door.

Then actual truck power would connect to the RV via another umbilical that I would create, also with Anderson SB175 connectors. One end would plug into the SB175 on the A-frame and the other end would plug into the SB175 under the truck bumper.

A Great idea to obtain proper charge profile despite the loss of stock charge circuit. Thanks Jim

 

[boatto5er]

We are getting close to "sealing the deal" on a 262RB also from a GRR dealer. I know you are busy with the National rally, but it would be nice to have another column added to your mod list with the expected retail price of all those items. I'm just guessing that your retail total is around $5K or so, and wonder if the residual worth at trade in time in the future is worth it for the average consumer. That being said, I'm taking off all non OEM stuff on my present trailer I'm just going with basic ( necessary) mods for now:

Curt 17500 TruTrack Black Trunnion Bar Weight Distribution Hitch with Integrated Sway Control (~$500 amazon).
Replacing the crap Furion DV 3100 with something better (see the Amazon reviews)
SRE 4000+ wet bolts/HD shackles + one X factor brace
Goodyear Endurance or Sailun tires
I wanted disc brakes, but was told by MorRyde the hubs were too small for them. ( How/where did you get them)??
Furrion rear camera
etc, etc

On your disc brake question, have you checked with Michael Barnett at Performance Trailer Braking? (www.performancetrailerbraking.com)


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[jbeletti]

On your disc brake question, have you checked with Michael Barnett at Performance Trailer Braking? (www.performancetrailerbraking.com)

No need to check with them Gus - I know all about PTB. Good people - good product!

 

[boatto5er]

No need to check with them Gus - I know all about PTB. Good people - good product!

I actually intended that comment for JIMPAV.


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[jbeletti]

Ah yes, I see that now


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[mrcomer]

Jim,
Why did you choose Sundance over all the other models?

 

[jbeletti]

Jim,
Why did you choose Sundance over all the other models?

Good question Mark.

I knew I wanted laminated fiberglass exterior walls. That rather limited it to North Trail and Sundance (and their Camping World variants).

Then it came down to floor plan. While I really wanted a nearly 40 foot North Trail, with it being over twice the length and heavier than the tow vehicle, I had second thoughts. So we whacked 8 feet and a couple thousand pounds off the North Trail and ended up with the Sundance 262 RB.

Will it be small - yep! Will we get used to it? Hope so

What are you thinking about getting Mark?

 

[jimpav]

On your disc brake question, have you checked with Michael Barnett at Performance Trailer Braking? (www.performancetrailerbraking.com)


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Thanks Gus.....just got off the phone with Mike. Glad to hear they will be at the National Rally with the same installer that did my Gateway 2 yrs ago.

 

[mrcomer]

Good question Mark.

I knew I wanted laminated fiberglass exterior walls. That rather limited it to North Trail and Sundance (and their Camping World variants).

Then it came down to floor plan. While I really wanted a nearly 40 foot North Trail, with it being over twice the length and heavier than the tow vehicle, I had second thoughts. So we whacked 8 feet and a couple thousand pounds off the North Trail and ended up with the Sundance 262 RB.

Will it be small - yep! Will we get used to it? Hope so

What are you thinking about getting Mark?

Just looking into the future. Not sure I could make the change from fifth wheel to travel trailer but you never know. For sure we want something shorter and lighter but still well built.

 

[porthole]

Just looking into the future. Not sure I could make the change from fifth wheel to travel trailer but you never know. For sure we want something shorter and lighter but still well built.

Now there's a tall glass of water

 

[CarterKraft]

POSSIBLE FUTURE MOD - DC to DC Battery Charging (Truck to RV)

As alluded to a few posts back, I am consider as a possible future modification, the addition of a DC to DC converter that can be used with the High Current Charge DC Power Outlet that I DO plan to add to the new truck.

Redarc, an Australian company makes a HD DC-DC Converter that can provide a 40 Amp charge output (depending on input current) - to the RV battery bank. The Redarc BCDC1240D has configurable charge profiles, including one for LiFePO4 batteries like the 4 I'm planning to have in the RV.

A few US retailers sell this. Here's a link to it on eTrailer - $430.

Here's an image of the Redarc BCDC1240D:
View attachment 60852
(click above image for larger view)

I've attached the manual for this product for anyone interested. Note that a 40 amp output unit is the largest they make. The 40 amp model only comes as a dual-input unit. The second input is designed for Solar. I would not use that input in my configuration. Any solar I may have will be connected to a Victron MPPT charge controller and then to the DC buss.

This device would be mounted somewhere close to the batteries. The space (likely under the bed or outside on the a-frame) will require additional venting to pull out generated heat and ensure the highest output current.

The power feed into this unit would be provided by an umbilical that I would create and terminate on the A-frame hitch into an Anderson SB175 connector housed inside a Trailer Vision housing with hinged door.

Then actual truck power would connect to the RV via another umbilical that I would create, also with Anderson SB175 connectors. One end would plug into the SB175 on the A-frame and the other end would plug into the SB175 under the truck bumper.

It seems an alternative to this product could be a MPPT solar battery charger.
I found several discussions on the web from off grid folks who used the MPPT type charger NOT PWM types to charge batteries from DC battery banks. IF this was thought to be a decent solution maybe you could use two of the same chargers and have a on-board backup for the solar charger or vice versa.

 

[Silverado23]

It seems an alternative to this product could be a MPPT solar battery charger.
I found several discussions on the web from off grid folks who used the MPPT type charger NOT PWM types to charge batteries from DC battery banks. IF this was thought to be a decent solution maybe you could use two of the same chargers and have a on-board backup for the solar charger or vice versa.

Morningstar corp. maker of the Tristar MPPT charger controller states specifically that using an MPPT charge controller for this application is acceptable.

http://support.morningstarcorp.com/search/?document_section=&search_product=96

Description:

Can I use a power source other than a PV panel to charge my batteries?We do not recommend using a DC power supply with any of our PWM controllers. While they appear to be similar to PV modules in function, DC power supplies have considerably more output capacitance. Connecting a DC power supply to our PWM controllers may cause excessive heating and premature failure. MPPT controllers can be used for this purpose without issue. In addition, AC powered battery chargers are often the best option for systems requiring AC battery charging.​

 

[danemayer]

Did you mean to say "not acceptable"?

 

[Silverado23]

Did you mean to say "not acceptable"?

No. MPPT controller is acceptable. PWM controller is NOT acceptable.

 

[jbeletti]

Should I install the REDARC DC-DC Converter, I will not be using the Solar input.

Any solar battery charging on this coach will be managed by a Victron MPPT Solar Charge Controller.

 

[Silverado23]

For clarification, my comments and reference was on using an mppt charger controller as a DC to DC converter as an approved application of a solar charge controller. No solar panels involved. Just a different DC source. Could be wind or battery etc.

The availability and cost of mppt charge controllers maybe a factor in your DC to DC conversion choice.
.

 

[CarterKraft]

Should I install the REDARC DC-DC Converter, I will not be using the Solar input.

Any solar battery charging on this coach will be managed by a Victron MPPT Solar Charge Controller.

So unless there is some sort of sponsorship situation regarding the RedArc product it seems grossly overpriced ($430) for your application versus the MPPT 100/50 ($294). It also doesn't have any sort of voltage/charge level display or smart output for Bluetooth use (this would be really useful to know while you are on the road what state of charge your batteries are in to alert you of any upcoming issues on arrival to your next site or overnight stay.

It seems to me unless I am missing something else that using a duplicate of the same Victron MPPT 100/50 model you are already using for Solar to do the DC-DC charging would be much simpler/redundant and offer more features and higher amperage throughput at less cost.

 

[Silverado23]

So unless there is some sort of sponsorship situation regarding the RedArc product it seems grossly overpriced ($430) for your application versus the MPPT 100/50 ($294). It also doesn't have any sort of voltage/charge level display or smart output for Bluetooth use (this would be really useful to know while you are on the road what state of charge your batteries are in to alert you of any upcoming issues on arrival to your next site or overnight stay.

It seems to me unless I am missing something else that using a duplicate of the same Victron MPPT 100/50 model you are already using for Solar to do the DC-DC charging would be much simpler/redundant and offer more features and higher amperage throughput at less cost.

The issue that would need to be checked is: What does the minimum voltage difference have to be for the MPPT Charger need to operate.
Some MPPT Chargers may have a minimum voltage difference such as Vinput >= Vbattery(output) + 5V

Other MPPT Chargers will boost the voltage provided there is enough current available. So Vinput could be less than the output Voltage as long as there is enough current to supply power.

20A x 12V= 240watts Voltage input would allow up to a charging output current of 15.4A @ 15.5V (240 watts - any power inefficiency of the converter)

You could of course rearrange the Remote battery bank to say 24V or 48V and use that as the input of the MPPT Charge converter and then still have a 12 V output.

 

[CarterKraft]

The issue that would need to be checked is: What does the minimum voltage difference have to be for the MPPT Charger need to operate.
Some MPPT Chargers may have a minimum voltage difference such as Vinput >= Vbattery(output) + 5V

Other MPPT Chargers will boost the voltage provided there is enough current available. So Vinput could be less than the output Voltage as long as there is enough current to supply power.

20A x 12V= 240watts Voltage input would allow up to a charging output current of 15.4A @ 15.5V (240 watts - any power inefficiency of the converter)

You could of course rearrange the Remote battery bank to say 24V or 48V and use that as the input of the MPPT Charge converter and then still have a 12 V output.

Great point, exactly the kind of detail I am not aware of in this situation. I'll do some digging.
Edit: Looking at the datasheet I may have found the answer.
"1b) PV voltage must exceed Vbat + 5V for the controller to start. Thereafter minimum PV voltage is Vbat + 1V."


With a 12v to 12v system you will never get to +5v over Vbat I don't think.

 

[Silverado23]

You could of course rearrange the Remote battery bank to say 24V or 48V and use that as the input of the MPPT Charge converter and then still have a 12 V output.

one advantage to using a higher voltage remote battery bank would be possibly using smaller gauge wire or longer lengths than would be feasible for a normal 12V system.