Replacing Defective Water Supply Valve

[LHB_Texas]

I have discovered that the valve on the cold water supply line into the water heater on my Prowler 29P RKS was frozen. No water supply to tank. Unfortunately, everything is plumbed using PEX. In order to access the valve, I had to cut the PEX and remove the valve and the 90 degree elbow connection that goes to the back of the water heater. What I'm left with is a 'T' with one leg being the cold water in, one being the bypass branch with a valve in it, and the third being the remaining stub of PEX where I cut the line. I'm trying to figure out how I can remove the remaining bit of PEX and the crimping ring that holds in on the T. I had to saw off the crimp rings with a hack saw on the section that I cut away, but I could do that because they were no longer in the trailer. For the remaining piece still attached to the T, there's no room to get to the crimp ring on the T. They make special PEX de-crimping tools, but they require that part of the tool be inserted in the fitting. In this case the fitting (T), is plastic and I'm afraid the tool will crack the fitting which means I now have to replace the fitting which in turn necessitates removal of 2 more crimp rings. I might be able to do it if I pulled the HW heater out of the trailer, but I really don't want to mess with that. If I can get the remaining PEX off the T fitting, I'm just going to use regular clear water line and hose clamps to run from T to new valve to tank, so if I have to do something like this again it will be less hassle.

The T fitting is designed to be used with PEX. When I fit a piece of regular 1/2 in. ID water line (clear reinforced rubber line from Home Depot) onto it, it seems a bit loose. I think it would be okay with a properly tightened hose clamp or maybe 2.
My questions are:
Has anybody done this type of repair before and if so, how did you get the crimp ring(s) off the PEX still inside the compartment behind the HW heater? There is very little room to work.
Has anybody used a PEX decrimping tool on a plastic fitting, and if so did it cause it to crack?
Has anybody replace the PEX tube with regular rubber reinforced supply lines and hose clamps, and if so, were there any leaks between the rubber line and the PEX T fitting or did the hose clamp(s) seal it up okay?

Thanks.

 

[wdk450]

LHB:
You might want to look at easy to use Sharkbite fitings and PEX tubing available at Home Depot. No crimps, just shove the tubing together. The building code gods think enough of the reliability of the Sharkbite connections to approve using them behind walls in a structure. Here's a link to the Home Depot selection:
http://www.homedepot.com/s/sharkbite+fittings?NCNI-5

 

[danemayer]

My questions are:
Has anybody done this type of repair before and if so, how did you get the crimp ring(s) off the PEX still inside the compartment behind the HW heater? There is very little room to work.
I don't know the Prowler layout, but in general, if you can't reach in, the alternative is to take down a wall or remove the water heater so you can get to the parts.

Has anybody used a PEX decrimping tool on a plastic fitting, and if so did it cause it to crack?
Using a PEX nipper tool, several of us just cut the crimp rings off a plastic tee on someone's rig without damage to the tee. But the tee is readily available at most stores and probably sells for $2. Buy an extra and hope you don't need it.
Has anybody replace the PEX tube with regular rubber reinforced supply lines and hose clamps, and if so, were there any leaks between the rubber line and the PEX T fitting or did the hose clamp(s) seal it up okay?
On the unit we were fixing, the hose between the tee and water heater was the white reinforced hose - don't think it's rubber though. It fits loosely on the tee but if the pex crimp ring is applied correctly, it doesn't leak. BUT, there are lots of hose types in stores. Don't know how you can be sure about what you're buying if not PEX. Also, rubber hoses typically give you bad tasting water. Might not be a good choice.

===
Check carefully for other freeze damage. The pump is susceptible. If the hot water heater has a plastic check valve on the hot water out, CHANGE IT TO BRASS while you're in there.

 

[wdk450]

I don't know how tight your access is, but I remember other people posting that they used a small Dremel grinding tool with a cutoff disk mounted to cut the clamps. I believe Dremel even has a flexible drive extension about 2 feet long that just gives you the bit chuck on the end for a smaller end to get into tight places.

Here's a pic:

Or maybe you could clamp the end of a snapped-off hacksaw blade into a pair of Vice grip pliers and cut the band that way.

 

[gebills]

Initially, my attempts at repairing the PEX tubing were met with much frustration. I kept working with the tubing and at one point, went and bought a Sharkbite fitting at a local H/D to repairt a leak under the sink in the galley. So far, it's like the Rock of Gibraltar: not a drip from it since installing the Sharkbite fitting. I finally decided that I needed to buy the right tools if I'm going to work with the PEX tubing. Up in the Seattle area, I was unable to find these tools, although when repairing several leaks, we were staying in Durango RV park in Red Bluff CA. The Red Bluff H/D ad all sorts of tools supplies and fittings for PEX so I finally bought the right tools at not too bad of price. Armed with a tubing cutter, a PEX clamp-ring cutter and a PEX tubing clamp crimper, I can fix about anything that crosses my path. I'm afraid it's like I preach to employees; "get the right tool for the job." I've now got the right tools and am having no difficulties in working the PEX tubing. Regarding other types of generic hoses an hose clamps, I use them constantly in other non-RV related projects, but didn't have lasting success using non-PEX items on the RV. The PEX tubing has grown on me, and I rather like using it now. Seems like it does well when you rattle down the road, maintaining its integrity; although I never go more than a day or two without inspecting the basement and behind the utility panel for leaks.

For access behind the utility panel, 've constructed a large 20" tall x 32" wide removable panel within the Heartland-installed panel that is installed more permanently with screw. I've covered the new removable panel with similar black furry material as found in most Heartland basements. Now I simply secure this removable panel with sliding latch bolts and when opened, it quickly opens everything up behind the panel and UDC, with reasonable access to the water heater, various plumbing, heating-tubing and charging/electrical apparatus located behind the wall. Good luck with your project.

 

[LHB_Texas]

Thanks all. Regarding the 90 degree threaded female connector that attaches to the water tank... Is there anything special about it. SharkBite has a 90 degree toilet fitting. Can that be used if the thread pattern matches up? It has one of those black rubber (or some flexible substance) convex shaped washers. Can they hold up to the heat?

 

[cookie]

If you are looking at a connector on the water heater you will want to be sure that there is no check valve involved.
As far as using a toilet fitting, I think it would be wise to get a part made for your water heater not a toilet.
Just a couple of thoughts.

Peace
Dave

 

[wdk450]

Thanks all. Regarding the 90 degree threaded female connector that attaches to the water tank... Is there anything special about it. SharkBite has a 90 degree toilet fitting. Can that be used if the thread pattern matches up? It has one of those black rubber (or some flexible substance) convex shaped washers. Can they hold up to the heat?

I'm thinking that the black rubber convex fitting you described is a COMPRESSION WASHER fitting that clamps down on a piece of solid metal tubing (with a clamping nut with a tubing hole through it). The threads are probably wrong. Maybe you can take your old parts with a diagram or photo of the piping layout in to Home Depot and one of their trained assistants can help you. I have a niece that works for Home Depot and she has taken their courses in electrical, plumbing, hardware, construction, etc. Also they try to hire experienced people from the "trades".

 

[danemayer]

Thanks all. Regarding the 90 degree threaded female connector that attaches to the water tank... Is there anything special about it. SharkBite has a 90 degree toilet fitting. Can that be used if the thread pattern matches up? It has one of those black rubber (or some flexible substance) convex shaped washers. Can they hold up to the heat?

It's a swivel fitting which allows you to tighten and loosen without moving the hose. You can also use a union but it'll probably be much more expensive.

Ideally I think you want a brass fitting attached to the brass check valve on the hot water outlet.

 

[LHB_Texas]

Thanks. Where can I get one of these? I found a 90 degree PEX 'toilet' connector. As anticipated by wdk450, it didn't work. Threads seemed to match okay, but wouldn't stop leaking. BTW, I managed to get the old crimp rings off using end-cutting pliers. I purchased an Apollo crimp ring tool from Lowe's for $40. Got a new Apollo brand ball valve. It's bigger than the original, but it fits. I'm ready to put things back together. I'd like to use a new connector for the cold water supply line, but if I can't find one, I'll just try reusing the old one. I don't think I damaged it any when I cut off the crimp ring securing the PEX tubing, but I'd like a backup in case I have problems again.

 

[danemayer]

Best on is all brass, like this one from Grainger. Home Depot should carry Sharkbite brand that are mostly brass in their PEX section.

 

[wdk450]

BTW:
Most all Home Depots should have a PEX tool kit with crimpers and removers to RENT in their tool rental section.