Towmax Blowout with damage and other 300c stuff

[Lndeatr]

I have been fervently searching posts on the heartland and Cyclone boards. I have a few items but the main one is the tire blowout that caused damage.

First, if you have Towmax tires, get rid of them. I wish I had. I have a 2013 300c that I bought in June 2013. When I first bought the rig I did a lot of research. The Towmax issue came up often but I tried to rationalize that a $70,000 rig would not have tires that were known to be defective. To be sure I went to my tire guy at Les Schwab who has never done me wrong. My old 5th wheel had bad tires and I replaced all 5 plus a second spare with the tires he recommended and never had any problems (wasted my money on the second spare....). He told me that the Towmax tires were fine and that is the tire that they sell. So I decided I would put a year on them and see what they look like. Stupid me! We'll I check the pressure before and during the trip. Always at 80 psi. Tread looks good and no deformity or bulging.

So 2 days ago we leave our home in Northern Ca for San Angelo Texas. Tires look good and are at 80 psi cold. Fist 2 days no problem. Cruise control at 62, road are smooth. All freeway. This morning, we left at 9:30 am. About 150 miles into the trip, blam!!! That dreaded sound. Look in my right mirror and all I see is dust and smoke. I'm on I-10 30 miles west of Van Horn Texas. No cell reception and in the middle of nowhere. No law enforcement came by either. Took over an hour and some McGivering to get the tread unwrapped from the axel and the tire off. The rim is shot from being dragged. Guess the smoke was from the wheel looking up after being wrapped around the axel. Tore up some sheet metal and the floor is pushed up under the kitchen cabinets. Only about about 3500 miles on the tires. Now I am at an RV park in Van Horn wondering how I am gonna get a rim and tire. Locals said to go to the local tow/auto repair shop. He can get tires. (From where I don't know). Anyway I found an old post where Heartland paid for the tires on a 300c and repairs because of an issue with the axels. I need to know what the issues are? I am gonna take on this battle. Luckily I can afford new tires (all 5) as soon as I can find a Goodyear dealer. I'll try to post a few pics.

Second issue. My paperwork says my 300c is a little over 37 feet. My tape measure says it is 40'9". How can they do that? I can't store it in my 39' side yard access. It has to sit in my driveway.

My front hydraulic lifts stop when raising them. I hear a click like a relay. Wait anywhere from 5 seconds to 30 seconds, hear a click and it works again.

Filled the water tank in November. Before that was never full. Water never came out of the vent but instead started running out of the bottom of the trailer on both sides as soon as the gauge said it was full. No water visible in the storage compartments. Once it stopped running/dripping no more drips. Filled it a second time for this trip and stopped it the second it showed full. Didn't run out but was dripping from the bottom bottom cover. My old fifth wheel was full as soon as I saw the first water come out of the overflow vent. Vent line disconnected? Cracked tank?

Next. I never used the water pump until my first dry camping trip in November. Did test it out shortly when I picked it up but my walk through was with a 18 to 19 year old kid on Friday at 4:30 pm and every one had already left. I knew more about the trailer than he did. Anyway in November when I first used the pump, it sounded like my Harley. After 2 days it burned out. I called Heartland and they agreed to reimburse me for the cost of a replacement. I put it in. Works ok but still have a severe rattle from the lines that run under the shower. Have been using the pump this trip and it seems to have trouble and surges unless I open up several faucets. Air leak on the intake side?

When we get back to Cali Jan 10th it is going back to the dealer. Shower leaks, slider doesn't close right, rear garage bed is too high and support legs don't reach the floor, gas tank gauge not working on extra gas tank. Hopefully they address the other issues too.

Anyone have any useful input to help out? We love the rig despite the issues but I did buy a $70,000 rig and I would expect the tires to not blow on an empty load, the water to run when you need it, and the water shouldn't flow out of the bottom of the rig when I fill the freshwater tank. The rest I will fix if they don't.

 

[Lndeatr]

 

[JohnD]

Sorry to hear of your issues.

I've been worried about the Blowmax tires on our Trail Runner and will probably replace them next spring before we take to the road for our summer travels.

We have probably less than 2000 miles on ours, not counting the 1300 miles from the factory in Indiana.

They still look like new . . . but . . .

The common theme that I've seen with the Blowmax tires blowing seems to be on the big 5th wheel trailers, and not so much the smaller and lighter bumper-pull trailers like ours, despite it being 30 feet long.

Anyone here have a differing view than mine on this?

 

[wdk450]

First thing this morning call Heartland Service, tell them your plight CALMLY, and get them helping/guiding you on this problem.

On the tire and wheel call Tredit Tire in Elkhart and see if they can overnight you a tire and wheel. Work out the warranty issues later, just take a lot of pictures.

Call your insurance agent to see what they say. I might even put in a phone call to the Les Schwab store, if nothing else to put them in the loop about the Towmax trailer tires problems. I am disappointed to hear that is what they now stock, I bought Geostar 14 ply ST tires from them, at different stores in California, Washington and Idaho. The oldest one is 3 years old, next oldest 2 years old, and I made the trip to Elkhart and back on them with no problems. 2 newer ones were bought just before that trip. I expect Les Schwab's excellent reputation for standing up for what they sell to back me up if I ever have a problem with these.

Your experience REALLY emphasizes the need for us trailer RV towers to have Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems. If there is a blowout you will know immediately (alarm) reducing collateral damage, and you probably would have gotten a preliminary low pressure or high temperature alarm before the blowout, although some people have reported blowouts with no preliminary alarms. In my personal experience when I had a tire shredding due to rubbing on the chassis, I got a low pressure alarm and was able to stop before it blew. I had no other indication in driving handling or visible smoke before the alarm sounded.

I hope your immediate problems are resolved soon. I don't know what your dealer service experience has been, but keep in mind you can use ANY RV repairer of your choice under your warranty. You just have to notify Heartland service IN ADVANCE. They even keep lists of 3rd party servicers they have had good results with.

 

[remoandiris]

Your experience REALLY emphasizes the need for us trailer RV towers to have Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems. If there is a blowout you will know immediately (alarm) reducing collateral damage, and you probably would have gotten a preliminary low pressure or high temperature alarm before the blowout, although some people have reported blowouts with no preliminary alarms. In my personal experience when I had a tire shredding due to rubbing on the chassis, I got a low pressure alarm and was able to stop before it blew. I had no other indication in driving handling or visible smoke before the alarm sounded.

Your personal experience aside, do you have any other data to validate your statement that he probably would have gotten a low pressure or high temp alarm before blowout?

The OP stated he heard the dreaded sound then saw dust and smoke. At that point there is no chance to avoid collateral damage. If that is also when the alarm would have sounded, the TPMS would have been no benefit.

I have not had a blowout and do not have TPMS. At this point, I see TPMS as snake oil. Yes, it sucks having a blowout and getting extra damage to the coach, but nothing will take "chance" out of the equation except staying at home..

 

[Bob&Patty]

The Tredit PH# is on the portal page on the left side. If you can...save the tire and wheel. They might what it shipped back to them. A TPMS will help if you are losing air...but not if the tread comes off. That is normally what happens to the blowmax tires. You need to run your hand over the tread and look to see if anything looks strange as far as tire wear.

As far as the water pump...sounds like it has a loose fitting or water line on the suction side. If your dealer wont do it...get some "noodles" from a big box store and install the on the lines in the water pump area.

 

[TravelTiger]

I have not had a blowout and do not have TPMS. At this point, I see TPMS as snake oil.

I watch the TPMS as we drive. We too have had a low pressure alarm, and saved an accident from happening. I don't think it's snake oil. It's just like any other gauge in your vehicle, it could save you from damage. We also added sensors to the 6 dually tires too... Because we have had low tire on an inner dual and didn't know it.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gvtahoe88]

I was also told by a Les Schwab worker how great these Blow Max Tires are. He also told me I was wasting my money to have them balanced. His two cents worth was worth ZERO. I have had the Blow Max Experience and it is not fun. With these tires it is Not If But When. Seems ashamed that Heartland will not take action to put better tires on these rigs. I guess it spins but the all mighty dollar to bad. As for the other issues its the GC and the luck of the draw if you get the unit that might have possibly been put together right that day. Good Luck.

 

[MCTalley]

If you do decide to go Goodyear tires, see if you can find a reputable non-Goodyear shop that can get them in and mount them for you. We replaced our Towmaxes at a Goodyear store and they did not put metal stems on (a requirement in my book) and could not (by company policy) put more than 95 PSI air in the tires. Also, might want to invest in a good on-board air compressor that can push 125-150 PSI to keep them aired up to 105-110 PSI. Finding a place where you can pull your entire rig in to get air is usually difficult at best.

One thing we did when replacing our leaking water pump (which is still under its own 2 year warranty and will be sent in to be repaired/replaced and used as a spare) is to add an accumulator in line. They are available from Camping World (and on Amazon) for around $40. It really smoothed out pulsating water and the hot/cold/hot/cold cycling we would get while taking a shower using the pump.

 

[kowAlski631]

Our Christmas presents? New Goodyear upgraded tires. Why? All 4 TowMax tires gone - 3 in one month. 2 blow-outs, 2 huge bubbles - no alarms before the blow-outs or 1 of the bubbles. Active, monitored system; tires checked for pressure before departure & visually inspected; speed max of 60; trailer well under max weight.

We were told we exceeded weight or exceeded recommended speeds or hit something on the road or hit a curb. At any rate, we were told we were at fault - not the tires. We were offered (if we could PROVE we did nothing wrong) new TowMax tires (yeah right) or a maximum of $100 to purchase a new tire.

Change your tires, folks. We were lucky in that damages to our trailer were cosmetic & not structural & that no one was injured from flying tire tread. It's not IF it will happen to WHEN it will happen.


Paul & Martha

Life's too short. Live so you can say "Remember when" not "I wish I had".

 

[brianharrison]

I have never seen a measured length (front of cap to farthest rear point)of any fifth wheel match the advertised length. Typically the advertised length is from the king pin or in some cases, the front drop area or any other arbitrary point (IMHO). Funny thing marketing strategies.

The front leg crapping out while raising is a poor auto reset breaker on the hydraulic pump power circuit. There are lots who have replaced the 50a with an 80a to resolve the issue. It should be located on your DC buss bar near the batteries.

Hope this helps,
Brian

 

[1woodwork]

I had a blowout last summer when tread wrapped around axle. Put 4 new goodyears on. Those Towmaster are junk.

 

[dave10a]

Heartland official policy is that "tire failures are not considered a manufacturing defect" was published in the latest issue of Trailer Life. This comment was in response to complaint about damage done to a new 3013 Cyclone 3800 September 21, 2012. Even though Heartland selected these tires without a buyers approval for a trailer they seem to absolve themselves from any responsibility. It is interesting how this works out in their favor without regard to its customers.

 

[danemayer]

Heartland official policy is that "tire failures are not considered a manufacturing defect" was published in the latest issue of Trailer Life. This comment was in response to complaint about damage done to a new 3013 Cyclone 3800 September 21, 2012. Even though Heartland selected these tires without a buyers approval for a trailer they seem to absolve themselves from any responsibility. It is interesting how this works out in their favor without regard to its customers.

Dave, Heartland wrote a much longer response to RV Action line. Here's a little additional context: "Tire failures can be caused by a number of different occurrences, none of which are caused by the manufacturing of the RV.....Tire failures are not considered a manufacturing defect..."

This is the same response that would be given by every RV manufacturer, every automobile manufacturer, and every truck manufacturer. Tire problems are not covered by the vehicle manufacturer.

Heartland selects tires for you, as does every vehicle manufacturer. In response to customer feedback, on larger 5th wheels, Heartland also supports ordering with tires that have a higher load rating. Cyclones can be upgraded from Load Range E to G. Landmarks can be upgraded from Load Range G to H.

 

[dave10a]

Dave, Heartland wrote a much longer response to RV Action line. Here's a little additional context: "Tire failures can be caused by a number of different occurrences, none of which are caused by the manufacturing of the RV.....Tire failures are not considered a manufacturing defect..."

This is the same response that would be given by every RV manufacturer, every automobile manufacturer, and every truck manufacturer. Tire problems are not covered by the vehicle manufacturer.

Heartland selects tires for you, as does every vehicle manufacturer. In response to customer feedback, on larger 5th wheels, Heartland also supports ordering with tires that have a higher load rating. Cyclones can be upgraded from Load Range E to G. Landmarks can be upgraded from Load Range G to H.

Heartland bottom line is they accept no responsibility for some thing they chose to put on the trailer. As long as people keep defending a manufacturer like you, I suspect they will never accept something they can get away with. The tire manufacturer did belly up to the bar in that same customer feedback--- while Heartland refused any responsibility. Also the trailer manufacturers could incorporate modification in the design to stop destrution of the trailer wheel area from a blow out. But why should they when customer turn a blind eye and forgive their bad decisions.

 

[jmgratz]

Your personal experience aside, do you have any other data to validate your statement that he probably would have gotten a low pressure or high temp alarm before blowout?

The OP stated he heard the dreaded sound then saw dust and smoke. At that point there is no chance to avoid collateral damage. If that is also when the alarm would have sounded, the TPMS would have been no benefit.

I have not had a blowout and do not have TPMS. At this point, I see TPMS as snake oil. Yes, it sucks having a blowout and getting extra damage to the coach, but nothing will take "chance" out of the equation except staying at home..

I can tell you from experience that a catastrophic failure such as a total blowout you will not get any warning from the TPMS. However we have had leakage from tires on 4 different occasions where the TPMS alarmed giving us time to pull over before tire failure and damage to the vehicle. We have on two occasions had the tread come off GoodYear G614's and on both occasions the tires remained inflated but the tread loss caused damage to the rig. On both of these occasions GoodYear reimbursed us for damage and tire replacement. I don't travel without the TPMS hooked up and am a firm believer in it.

 

[Lndeatr]

I am the OP. Call me a freak but when I pull the 5th wheel I carry a pressure gauge in my pocket. A little uncomfortable but it reminds me to check the pressures every time I stop. I checked the tires 150 miles before the explosion. I am very aware of how my rig handles and notice everything that differs as I drive. I carry a very prized possession (my wife) and most of the time my Harley ( a close second) and have actually felt a low tire and stopped and changed it.

I am buying Goodyear G14s tomorrow and TPMS but I truly believe my rig (Cyclone 300C) should not carry 16,000 lbs on E rated tires on a $70,000 rig. These Towmax tires are deficient and Heartland should stand behind what they support. I also feel that some if not all Towmax supporters are Heartland moles. I buy a new rig about every 3 to 5 years. This is my first Heartland and dependent on how they (not treddix or dynamic) support me as a 6 month customer will determine if my next rig comes from them.

All I can say at this point is avoid Towmax and anyone who supports them. Drive safe, slow down and get to where you are going. Also as a 25+ year cop, give us a break. I am no better than you but I still have a job to do. Drive safe!! God Bless!!!

 

[BigJim45]

I am the OP. Call me a freak but when I pull the 5th wheel I carry a pressure gauge in my pocket. A little uncomfortable but it reminds me to check the pressures every time I stop. I checked the tires 150 miles before the explosion. I am very aware of how my rig handles and notice everything that differs as I drive. I carry a very prized possession (my wife) and most of the time my Harley ( a close second) and have actually felt a low tire and stopped and changed it.

I am buying Goodyear G14s tomorrow and TPMS but I truly believe my rig (Cyclone 300C) should not carry 16,000 lbs on E rated tires on a $70,000 rig. These Towmax tires are deficient and Heartland should stand behind what they support. I also feel that some if not all Towmax supporters are Heartland moles. I buy a new rig about every 3 to 5 years. This is my first Heartland and dependent on how they (not treddix or dynamic) support me as a 6 month customer will determine if my next rig comes from them.

All I can say at this point is avoid Towmax and anyone who supports them. Drive safe, slow down and get to where you are going. Also as a 25+ year cop, give us a break. I am no better than you but I still have a job to do. Drive safe!! God Bless!!!

Tow Max tires are rated at 80psi with load of 3520lbs per tire. Not enough for these heavy rigs.
G614 are 3750lbs per tire at 110psi. Be sure to check your rims.

 

[dave10a]

I think all manufacturers like Heartland should choose products that meet or exceed manufacturing like ISO 9001 and government regulations. When a manufacturer puts profit ahead of the customer, they should as a moral obligation stand behind the consequences of that decision. Heartland did not in the situation wrote about in Trailer Life. I don't know if that tire manufacturer is ISO certified, but they did reimburse for the tire and not damage to the trailer. Heartland should have reimbursed for trailer damage because they choose profit instead of durability. Does Heartland choose vendors that are ISO or equivalent certified? Or do they simply go for profit? I suspect Heartland is RVSA certified so they should demand that from their suppliers-

 

[gvtahoe88]

heartland bottom line is they accept no responsibility for some thing they chose to put on the trailer. As long as people keep defending a manufacturer like you, i suspect they will never accept something they can get away with. The tire manufacturer did belly up to the bar in that same customer feedback--- while heartland refused any responsibility. Also the trailer manufacturers could incorporate modification in the design to stop destrution of the trailer wheel area from a blow out. But why should they when customer turn a blind eye and forgive their bad decisions.

good for you dave!!! Thats telling it like it is.