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View Full Version : Is Our Truck Enough For A Landmark



fdmckee
01-20-2008, 10:11 PM
DH and I are looking seriously to upgrade to a Landmark. We now have an Everest 344J, but want something better before we retire.
We have already seen a Big Horn 3670 and fell in love with that floorplan. Then we heard about the Landmark and love the Augusta and possibly the Pinehurst floorplan, but won't know for sure until we have seen them in person. What we really want to know is if our truck is enough to pull one of these fine 5ver's. We have a 2004 Ford F350 King Ranch, 2x4 crew cab, 6.0 diesel. It is not a dually, but we are willing to add a bigger hitch (have a 16K now) and air bags, if necessary. We just don't want to fall in love with the Landmark, then find out we can't do it.
So what do you experienced Landmark owners think? Do you think we can pull it off? Any info or suggestions would be greatly appreciated and helpful.
Danette & Fred

BluegrassMan
01-21-2008, 12:42 AM
Hi FD:
I don't feel that you should have ANY problem towing the Landmark. I towed my Grand Canyon for the past 2 1/2 yrs. with a 96' Dodge 2500HD V10 with 3:54 gears. I also had Airlift system on it, just to keep everything level and keep a good ride. I felt that the Dodge was a little light in the "brake" dept, on mountains, and the engine was getting some miles on it, I was over my weight limit for the truck; So I moved up in size and weight of a Tow Vhicle.

Tom of Ypsi
01-21-2008, 09:36 AM
I do not believe you will have any problems towing with either one of you choices. With both floorplans you will be close to maxing out if loaded for fulltiming or carrying a lot of extra stuff. Braking is another issue and again you will be alright depending on how you load, too much weight and not enough brake. When we bought our Landmark we were told to go to a 20K hitch to be on the safe side since the max weight on the my Landmark is 16K and I believe the new Landmarks are 16.2K. Whichever model you choose you will have a quality coach built by a quality company. Good Luck

fdmckee
01-21-2008, 02:43 PM
Thank you BluegrassMan and Tom for your information. We really appreciate your input and it looks like we can continue looking at the Landmarks. :) We are more than willing to change to a 20K hitch and even air bags and we will continue checking out the braking. Maybe we'll even go to our Ford dealership and see what they say. Again, thanks so much!!
Danette & Fred

Pulltab
01-21-2008, 06:52 PM
Do the homework on the trailer and truck as far as weight limitations go. Don't just take someones word on a forum that you are ok to tow something. Just because someone else would do it doesn't make it right! Just my honest opinion.

I have been down this road of thinking what I had could pull what I bought and I am here to tell you that you won't like the results. Can you pull it , yes, is it safe ? can you stop it is the real question! Don't go over your head and get yourself in for more than you are willing to deal with.

BluegrassMan
01-21-2008, 07:35 PM
Pulltab:
That's what I was hinting to when I told FD that I upgraded to a heavier truck. I changed because my Dodge wasn't up to the task with a heavy trailer. I just didn't want to tell him "You gotta buy a new truck". Nothing is worse than needing BRAKES downhill in traffic backups !!! Been there, got the skidmarks in my shorts to prove it! Now with the F450 I feel safe, Heavier trucks also have bigger wheel bearings,axles, etc.

Pulltab
01-21-2008, 08:00 PM
There is not an easy way to tell people that they probably need a larger truck, cause that is not what they want to hear. But finding out your truck is NOT enough is even harder to swallow!

I am not saying it is or it isn't larger enough, only the numbers can tell the truth. I can tell you I have the largest GCWR Dodge had to offer last year in a 2007 at 23,000 lbs. Our bighorn is near its max weight allowance of 14,000 and we are REAL close but not over the limit. Don't fool yourself, like bluegrass said, skid marks in your underwear are one thing, on the road it is another!

theharveys
01-21-2008, 08:17 PM
When my DW and I went from a 27' travel trailer to a 38' fifth wheel, I told her (and she agreed), the we needed to buy a new (to us) truck. We went from a '94 Ford One-ton dually to a Ford F550. It has pulled our large (SOB) fifth wheel all over the country without issue. Recently, we ordered a brand new Landmark Augusta and I am glad to have the F550.
It is chipped and equipped with high performance exhaust, as well as some other assorted performance parts.
It has 4:88 gears, but if I keep the speed down, I can get 10 MPG towing.
In anticipation of towing the Landmark, I am getting ready to spend $1500.00 on high performance brakes including slotted rotors, high performance calipers and pads. I may even get an exhaust brake installed.
Yes, it rides like a truck when unhitched, but once you throw 2000 or 3000 pounds onto the hitch, the ride is quite pleasent.
Given the choice, I would rather have too much truck then "just enough".
I would go to an HDT if the DW would let me. I have seen some awfully nice Volvos out there. Can you say 500 HP and a 10 speed autoshift transmission? No towing issues there!

ladymc53
01-30-2008, 12:33 AM
Hi, new poster here. We're looking at the Augusta and Pinehurst. We purchased a 2008 Dodge 3500 1 ton, diesel dually with exhaust brake at the end of December. Was told by the dealer that it would haul 20,000 lbs. We recently put a 20K Husky hitch on it. We currentlly have a 1999 Newmar Mountainair, 15,000 loaded and the previous truck, which was smaller (F350 V10) pulled it fine. Now that we have the Dodge it will pull everything alright. The Pinehust isn't that much bigger than the Newmar. Thoughts please? Thanks...still looking and appreciating the beauty of the Landmark's.

jbeletti
01-30-2008, 07:48 AM
Pinehurst has a GVWR of about 16,000. If your truck is truly rated at 20,000, I think you'll be in good shape.

By the way, I too favor the Pinehurst and have one on order. I'm moving to it from a classic Landmark, a 2005 Landmark Mt. Rushmore.

Jim

Pulltab
01-30-2008, 09:23 AM
Hi, new poster here. We're looking at the Augusta and Pinehurst. We purchased a 2008 Dodge 3500 1 ton, diesel dually with exhaust brake at the end of December. Was told by the dealer that it would haul 20,000 lbs. We recently put a 20K Husky hitch on it. We currentlly have a 1999 Newmar Mountainair, 15,000 loaded and the previous truck, which was smaller (F350 V10) pulled it fine. Now that we have the Dodge it will pull everything alright. The Pinehust isn't that much bigger than the Newmar. Thoughts please? Thanks...still looking and appreciating the beauty of the Landmark's.

Dodges Website lists the new 2008 3500 dually properly equiped at a GCWR of 24,000 lbs, I guarantee you the truck is gonna weigh 8,000lb minimum. That would leave you at best 16,000towing capacity . True it WILL haul that much but how safely. Never trust what a dealer tells you I got burned on that one.

That is on a quad cab, a regular cab is only 23,000 The truck would have to be rated at minimum of 28,000 GCWR to pull 20,000 and that puts you well into the CDL area for license.

Blessed
01-31-2008, 07:55 AM
I have a Landmark Monticello with a GVW of 18,000# and a towing weight of 16,000#. I pull it with a 2006 Dodge 3500 SRW short bed with the 5.9 Cummins. It tows great. I agree that the real issue is brakes. The best thing I did was to have Mor-Ryd install disc brakes on my trailer and I installed a BrakeSmart controller on my truck. My unit will now stop faster than than when I was pulling a 9000# travel trailer.

haole
02-19-2008, 01:11 PM
DH and I are looking seriously to upgrade to a Landmark. We now have an Everest 344J, but want something better before we retire.
We have already seen a Big Horn 3670 and fell in love with that floorplan. Then we heard about the Landmark and love the Augusta and possibly the Pinehurst floorplan, but won't know for sure until we have seen them in person. What we really want to know is if our truck is enough to pull one of these fine 5ver's. We have a 2004 Ford F350 King Ranch, 2x4 crew cab, 6.0 diesel. It is not a dually, but we are willing to add a bigger hitch (have a 16K now) and air bags, if necessary. We just don't want to fall in love with the Landmark, then find out we can't do it.
So what do you experienced Landmark owners think? Do you think we can pull it off? Any info or suggestions would be greatly appreciated and helpful.
Danette & Fred

The 2004 F350 SRW can tow 13,100 with an auto and 12,900 with a manual. The biggest issue you'll probably have is braking.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/rv_trailer_towing/2004/2004_default.asp


I'm pushing the limit on my 07 King Ranch and if it's a fast yellow, it's possible that you will have a challenge stopping. I'm still playing with the brake controller settings, but haven't had issues otherwise.

fdmckee
02-21-2008, 05:17 PM
Thank you everyone for your input. We will take all of your advice into consideration and we're also going to go to our Ford dealer where we bought our truck and see what they say about towing. Want to also check out that Mor-Ryd disc brakes and BrakeSmart controller that Blessed mentioned. I'm sure those will help tremendously, but won't do anything until we talk to Ford. Again, thank you all for your responses!! :)

jmgratz
04-03-2008, 09:46 PM
I moved from a 40 foot Alfa Gold 253 to the 2007 Landmark Golden Gate. I have towed both units all over this wonderful country. I have had both units weighed and believe it or not both GCVW is identical. They both maxed out at 16100 pounds travel weight. I do not travel with full water tanks as that adds almost 1000 pounds. I will say the most difficulty with both units is stopping on a downhill run. Be sure to have the selling dealer adjust your trailer brakes properly before leaving their lot. I tow with a 99 Ford F350 with a 7.3 diesel and it is equipped with a full Banks power pak system and air bags on the rear suspension. The Landmark hitch weight is quite a bit more than the Alfa was and I have to run more air in the air bags to keep the truck level. I just upgraded the Landmark suspension tothe Mor-Ryde IS system with never-lube bearing and disc brakes. The trailer now will stop and I don't white knuckle panic stops as with the disc brakes it makes all of the difference in the world. Oh yes, I forgot to mention I also have and exhaust brake on the truck and would not drive in the mountains without one. I have almost 200000 miles on the truck and have only had to change brakes on it twice. Drive defensively and anticipate stops and you can tow all over the place. Happy traveling.
Jim & Sheila Gratz
jmgratz@windstream.net
99 Ford F350, with Banks
07 Landmark Golden Gate

Oldlthrnecksgirl
04-03-2008, 10:57 PM
We pull our Bighorn with our GMC 2500 HD, and STOP with no problem. We will end up with a Landmark and a bigger truck. Pin weight is the issue more than anything for us,,, duellys don't add to the pin weight capacity nor do some of the larger sounding trucks like a one ton.

truknutt
04-04-2008, 08:52 AM
We pull our Bighorn with our GMC 2500 HD, and STOP with no problem. We will end up with a Landmark and a bigger truck. Pin weight is the issue more than anything for us,,, duellys don't add to the pin weight capacity nor do some of the larger sounding trucks like a one ton.

OLNG,

I'm confused by your dually statement. I pulled the rear spring specs for the 2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD & 3500HD and found a substantial difference between the Single Rear Wheel (SRW) and Dual Rear Wheel (DRW):
2500HD (SRW) is rated at 6,084 lbs http://www.gmc.com/sierra/2500HD/specsCapabilities.jsp

3500HD (SRW) is rated at 6,500 lbs
3500HD (DRW) is rated at 8,200 lbs http://www.gmc.com/sierra/3500/specsCapabilities.jsp

Granted these are Rear Spring Capacities and not actual pin weights but if the spring capacity increases it stands to reason that the pin weight should also increase, doesn't it? :confused:

Stepping up from the 2500 to the 3500 SRW gets you little in weight gain but the size of the brakes should be the issue here. I have both a Ford F-250 & F-350 and can tell you that there is a B-i-i-i-i-g difference in brake rotor mass!

Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks for listening,

Dave

katkens
04-04-2008, 10:02 AM
OLNG,

I'm confused by your dually statement. I pulled the rear spring specs for the 2008 GMC Sierra 2500HD & 3500HD and found a substantial difference between the Single Rear Wheel (SRW) and Dual Rear Wheel (DRW):
2500HD (SRW) is rated at 6,084 lbs http://www.gmc.com/sierra/2500HD/specsCapabilities.jsp

3500HD (SRW) is rated at 6,500 lbs
3500HD (DRW) is rated at 8,200 lbs http://www.gmc.com/sierra/3500/specsCapabilities.jsp

Granted these are Rear Spring Capacities and not actual pin weights but if the spring capacity increases it stands to reason that the pin weight should also increase, doesn't it? :confused:

Stepping up from the 2500 to the 3500 SRW gets you little in weight gain but the size of the brakes should be the issue here. I have both a Ford F-250 & F-350 and can tell you that there is a B-i-i-i-i-g difference in brake rotor mass!

Just my 2 cents worth. Thanks for listening,

Dave

Dave.... the brake size is the same on GM 2500 and 3500 trucks--12.8 x 1.5 ....245.5 sq. in. www.chevrolet.com/silverado/specifications (http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/specifications) Ken

Oldlthrneck
04-04-2008, 10:22 AM
Dave:
I think she is a bit confused about a lot of these numbers. There is one thing that seems a bit odd though. I have a brochure that was given to me at a dealership that lists the weights and payloads and GCWRs of various models of trucks that GM produces. The numbers on the website are somewhat different than what are in the brochure.
Maybe the brake rotors on the Fords are substantially different between the F-250 and the F-350, but when I was looking to upgrade the rotors on my GMC the part numbers for the rotors between the 2500HD and the 3500HD were indentical. So, based on that I am assuming that the braking ability of my 2500HD is similar to the 3500HD. I will concede that the 3500HD DRW would be better based on the fact that there are 6 tires, on the DRW, in contact with the ground vs. only 4 on the SRW. But this subject, on this website, RV.net, and on the Diesel Place, has been beaten to death. I do know that my Big Horn is about the limit that I will tow with my truck. We try to load it intelligently and have been carefull about not loading it to the point that we exceed the GCWR of the truck that we have. Our plans include upgrading to a Landmark, when I retire, and at that time I will definitely be upgrading to a MDT.
Fred

Oldlthrnecksgirl
04-04-2008, 10:25 AM
Could someone please pass the salt? I need to eat my words! I did misunderstand the many conversations I have had with DH so from now on I will only comment on things I KNOW about!! Sorry if I have added any confusion.

Now, have I mentioned that I love my kitchen?? lol,,, sheepishly Lizzy

Delaine and Lindy
04-04-2008, 10:58 AM
Truck size is and has been a major issure on ever forum I have ever read. I have owned 2500HD's, 3500HD's and a 4500 Chevy Kodiak. I pulled the same trailer a Cambridge by Keystone and had the Mor/Ryde disk brakes. The Kodiak had all options including the exhaust brake. I pulled the Cambridge in almost every State and all thru the Colorado Rockies and all across I-70 thru Denver with the 3500HD. Never had a brake issue at anytime. Had brakes checked on the 3500 after one year and still had 90% wear left. The Gross weight on the 3500HD was 24,600 over about 1,100 lbs. Then went and had a Chevy Kodiak upfitted with the Chariot Hauler bed and all options, Link air ride suspension, air ride seat, 98 gal in bed fuel tank, total weight of the Kodiak 10,900 lbs with driver and passenger. Towing weight of kodiak was 17,500 gross and 26,000 towing. Total weight of Truck and 5er 27,600. So I actually weight was more because of the Truck. Don't believe people when they say Trucks are the same. The Kodiak had much larger tires and larger brakes. I'm not saying you can tow this or that. I just saying what ever you do make sure you do a lot of research. If it was up to me I would be pulling my Landmark with a Class 8 truck whats really a HDT. And I know most want do that. I will pull my Landmark with my 2008 Chevy 3500 4x4 DRW's. I had the Chevy Silverado and the Landmark weight within 1 mile from the Dealership, Landmark was as it came from the factory. The Cat Scale weight wa 22,160. My Truck weight is 8,160 so it looks as if the Landmarks weight was 14,000. Oh yes the two 40 propane tanks were full. So sometime weights will fool you. I never travel with water in the tanks , just enough to flush the John. We were full timing and were hauling a lot more then than now. I don't take any more clothes than possible, two bikes, sewer hoses and water lines and very few tools including the HDTV dish and don't have a Onan generator. So hope this gives you some idea. I recomend Mor/Ryde brakes, however the new model Trucks with the IBC work great with the electric brakes, but there have been some issues with the Disk brakes, I'm sure Mor/Ryde has a fix for that. GBY...


P.S. I do have a CDL Class A Lic....

truknutt
04-04-2008, 11:55 AM
Well now, this is what I enjoy about this group; as long as you don't take replies to postings as a personal attack, you (ney, I) can learn a good piece of info every now and then!

Mr. Ken, You made me look at the Ford stats and darn if the 250 & 350 Rotors aren't the same diameter on the '08s. I have an '01 & '03. When I uttered those fateful words "...there is a B-i-i-i-i-g difference in brake rotor mass!", I was referring more to thickness in regards to heat dissipation than diameter. I should have elaborated or just zipped it shut!!!

OLN (Mr. Fred) & OLNG (Mrs. Lizzy), Do you know what I learned from the two of you? You are 2 different people sharing a rig!! I honestly did not put it together until your postings were back-to-back. When I stated I was confused by OLNG's statement, I really was. It made me go to the GMC website and research. I should have kept quiet about brakes though! Got off the topic of pin weights in a quick New York minute, didn't we?! ;)

Anyway, Mrs. Lizzy, what's new in the kitchen..anything good for chow? BTW, I've also learned that all that salt is not good for me..DW switched me to ketchup to help me get my words down!! :( I wouldn't worry about adding to the confusion...look at the banter it generated and the knowledge that I have gained!

All of you, enjoy the rest of your day & hope you have a beautiful weekend..we'll be getting rain.

Dave

creeper
04-04-2008, 12:54 PM
Here is my take on it.

I'm a Ford owner, currently a 2008 F350.
I also had a 2003 and 2006 F250.

I SO WANTED a GM product to tow our fifth wheel.

We have a Bighorn 3400RL and looked at the landmarks.

What we quickly learned is the Landmark would exceed all the weights , except axle weights.

Now many people will say axle weights is the only weight that matters. Well not exactly true. It may be true in some states, but I found some states use GVWR to determine tickets.

My big concern was not whether or not the diesel truck could pull it as any of the big three diesel motors can pull nearly any fifth wheel out there. My big concern was so idiot doing something and causing us to crash. Crashing is bad enough, but I certainly don't want my retirement saving sucked out with a lawsuit or a criminal manslaughter charge be cause someone tragically dies in a crash. We'd be subject to those if we exceed , GVWR, GCVWR. Second concern was voiding truck warranty. Exceeding the tow rating for the truck and they can void your warranty on the entire truck.

The pin on our 3400RL is about 2400lbs, the landmark is more then that.

With this in mind we looked at the following trucks.

GMC/Chevy Crew cab 2500SB, 3500 SRW LB... I found that the GVW is so low on these trucks it didn't take long to exceed that rating, BUT A REAL LOT. I had the dealer weight a Short bed, crew cab with a full tank of fuel and driver. 7500lbs. WHich left only 2400lbs for hitch, bed liner, wife and stuff.

So that left us with only the Crew cab, 3500 LB, dually with a gross vehicle weight of 11,400lbs. But, the truck is HUGE and weighed in at 8500lbs before adding anything and could easily exceed the GCVWR.

That forced us to look at the Ford Crew cab, F350SB since it has a GVWR of 11,400lbs.

Fully loaded with Me, wife, bedliner, hitch, full aux tanks and all our junk is 8800lbs. That's leaves up 2600lbs for pin.. This set up puts us a couple hundred pounds under GVWR and nearly 2000lbs under GCVWR. This makes me comfortable.

A landmark would exceed the ratings of my F350. For a Landmark the BARE minimum truck would be a 350/3500 dually. I'm not saying people don't do otherwise, but that's on them. I cringe when I see some 250 or 2500 pulling a Landmark.

What ever you do, think it through and were you comfort level is.

Pulltab
04-04-2008, 08:58 PM
Good post creeper!

jmgratz
04-04-2008, 09:30 PM
Acording to various brochures the dually can actually have a LOWER tow rating than the SRW due to the fact of the additional weight of the 2nd set of wheels, tires and other related hardware. So what ends up by happening is there is a lower towing rating with the DRW versus the SRW.

jmgratz
04-04-2008, 09:36 PM
Good post creeper!

A couple of questions on your tankless water heater....

1. How do you like it?
2. How effective is it?
3. Did you remove the regular (tank) water heater?
4. Were did you get it?
5. What is the ballpark cost of it?

I have long thought that a tankless water heater would be a great assest for an RV due to less weight and greater effiency.

Jim & Sheila
99 Ford F350 with Banks system and exhaust brake
07 Landmark Golden Gate with Mor-Ryde IS and disc brakes
None

jpmorgan37
04-04-2008, 10:39 PM
Jim;

Check out this thread and look at post #6 Here (//heartlandowners.org/showthread.php?t=4116&highlight=tankless+hot+water+heater) for a little more information.

John

big bird
04-08-2008, 08:15 PM
Just ordered our 2009 PINEHURST, having the right truck for this size of FW all loaded to full-time is of upmost importance to us so i got a real truck, what do you think.

http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/17300/2826559230103299385S200x200Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2826559230103299385EAFndL)



http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2826559230103299385EAFndL

jbeletti
04-08-2008, 10:04 PM
That ought to get it done!

I like your choice in floor plans :)