Power Control System - Precision Circuits, Inc.

My PCS seems to have stopped reading out the individual component readings. It is however giving me the bulk readings. So that seems like it’s probably the unit itself. Anyone have any ideas?
I’ll call them next week and see what they say.

Re: Power control system

Hi Jerrod,

Attached page is from the PCS Manual

Re: Power control system

Dan Before If I turned on the AC's , the Microwave, Fireplace, or any of those devices I could see what they were drawing but now they are all on "0" and stay on "0".

Re: Power control system

Well Dan I must be loosing my mind. They replied back to me also and are telling me the same thing. Maybe I seen the readings when on 30 amp and it was shedding circuits.

Here is his explanation if anyone else would like it.


(The system just does not work that way. The only current sensors are for overall RV current, no sensors exist for each appliance.



The current displayed for each appliance is a "learned" number.
For example, if you are on 30 amp service, and the current goes to 35 Amps because you turn on a hair dryer. The PCS will shed your Water Heater. The current drops to 25 Amps. The PCS does the math,
35-25=10, so the Water Heater must have been drawing 10 Amps. That number is stored and displayed. That number does not change until the next time the PCS sheds the Water Heater and re-learns a new value.


The reason for PCS to learn the current is to know when it is safe to to that specific appliance back on. So in the above example, the Hair Dryer is turned off, the RV current drops to say 12 Amps. The PCS knows that adding the 10 Amps of the Water Heater back will raise the overall RV to 12+10=22 Amps which is still under the 30 amp limit. So it is safe to turn the Water Heater Back on.)



George

Re: Power control system

danemayer said:

Hi Jerrod,

Attached page is from the PCS Manual

Click to expand...

Is the whole manual on the forum?

Never mind, I found it using precision for the search.

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/?man=/Electrical/Power Control System/Precision Circuits

Re: Power control system

I don't read manuals !!!!!
I'm not sure why it is but trying to read a manual and understanding what I'm reading is very hard for my little brain... If it's more then a few sentences my mind wanders off to somewhere else. That's probably why I do so many pictures. That works for me

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Re: Power control system Precision Circuits

I added to Jerrod's thread title and looking to see some additional info.


The PCS, I see it works in unison with a Magnum inverter for supplemental power, but there is no mention if this is any Magnum or only the Magnum Hybrid series.

The Magnum Hybrid will automatically supplement the incoming line voltage if the loads surpass the available line voltage. Doesn't need a PCS system installed.

Do we know what the "Inverter assist" is using regarding the inverter model?

Has anyone with a PCS tried to have any of the programming changed?

Our next rig will not have a 5.5 generator, it will be either the 7.0 EFI gasoline or 8.0 diesel generator.
The PCS is programmed for a factory installed 5.5 genset.

Load shedding.
Following the info posted on the owners manual I see this:

PCS shed order
1 water heater
2 rear AC
3 front AC
4 washer dryer
5 mid AC
6 fireplace
7 microwave

For the most part this is OK, with the exception of the washer and dryer.
I have had issues with my Splendide combo when there are power interruptions and the unit is running.
I now have a on off switch at the plug that allows us to keep the power turned off until we are ready to use the washer. A simple switched outlet instead of using the breaker to lock it out.

My preference would be to move the W/D to the #7 spot or replace it with another item, the converter for example.
My converter in the Cyclone is an 80 amp model, similar to what is in the Landmarks and there are times I see 10-14 amps being drawn when the battereis are down.

The PCS will reduce the battery charge rate to minimize the current drawn 'if' it is a Magnum inverter with a built in charger. AFAIK the small Magnum used for the refrigerator is not capable of charging

The fireplace could be switched to #1 or 2.

Cheap Heat would be another load that could be put into the list.

Has anyone attempted to get a program change through Heartland since it appears PCS does not allow even dealer programming?

Re: Power control system

That would be nice for owner's reordering of listed items to suit personal likes....it probably is not programmable to keep the 90% of owners from screwing up programmings, but a simple way to restore it back to default would alleviate that such as in the scenerio... ("oops, messed that up, there back to default, let's try again")

Re: Power control system

The PCS installation used by Heartland doesn't include an inverter. If you have a residential refrigerator, of course it comes with the 1000 watt inverter for the refrigerator. But that's unrelated to the PCS.

I doubt Heartland would offer reprogramming, and I don't know whether there's even a way to modify the programming in the field. I don't recall seeing that capability mentioned in the documentation. If they had designed that in, it would probably be mentioned.

If I remember correctly, the PCS senses operation of the Generator by watching for voltage on the hours meter. The programming assumes an Onan 5500. If you're trying to get more power by installing a larger generator, it probably won't work because once usages goes above 5500 watts, the PCS will begin shedding loads.

Re: Power control system

danemayer said:

The PCS installation used by Heartland doesn't include an inverter. If you have a residential refrigerator, of course it comes with the 1000 watt inverter for the refrigerator. But that's unrelated to the PCS.

Click to expand...

It's a Magnum inverter so it is related somewhat.
Since it is not detailed in the literature for the PCS or as far as I can tell anyhere on the Heartland literature does it specifically state the inverter is an inverter only without charge capabilities.

So in that sense it is a valid point and as far as we know, none of the factory supplied inverter's have charge capability built in. Although the limited time that the inverters were upgraded to the 2000 watt version still remain a question.

danemayer said:

I doubt Heartland would offer reprogramming, and I don't know whether there's even a way to modify the programming in the field. I don't recall seeing that capability mentioned in the documentation. If they had designed that in, it would probably be mentioned.

Click to expand...

Heartland does offer programming - Heartland is the end user that programs the PCS to their specs, not Precision Circuits. Offering to program to a customer's request is a different query.

The PCS literature does state that the programming is done with Windows software and dongle for the interface.
Getting the software and the dongle is the challenge. I don't see what the big deal is over making a few changes.

I can reprogram every parameter of the fuel and ignition on my motorcycle with Windows software and a dongle, that after it's 1st use is married to the PCM.
And it is quite common with the Ford's for end users to use software (Forscan) and a Bluetooth dongle and reprogram dozens of features in the newer trucks. Just about everything controlled by one the multiple computer modules is addressable.

You being the computer guy here I'm surprised you haven't tried this yet as a challenge.

danemayer said:

If I remember correctly, the PCS senses operation of the Generator by watching for voltage on the hours meter. The programming assumes an Onan 5500. If you're trying to get more power by installing a larger generator, it probably won't work because once usages goes above 5500 watts, the PCS will begin shedding loads.

Click to expand...

Generator use is sensed by the hour meter receiving a signal.
The Programming can be changed for a larger generator.

So, the bottom line is, if there is a minor change that is perfectly acceptable within the parameters of the system, and with the cost of the higher end units that include the PCS, requesting a simple program change when the system is being initialized should not be a big deal, certainly not a $250 + operation.

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I did post my questions to Precision Circuits, Inc and got the following response: Blue are my questions Red are the replies from George

I understand that programming is limited to the factory only, which is a little disappointing. I will have a Splendide brand washer - dryer installed. I have found that these units really do not like having the power disconnected while in use. The units can lock up and require multiple attempts of "re-booting" to clear the issue.

Most people would have a very difficult time programming PCS. You would be amazed at some of the dangerous requests I have gotten over the years.


Is it possible to have the PCS programmed after the build?

We can do a custom reprogram of the PCS for $250. You would just need to send us the Central Monitor Panel. 4 screws to remove and a telephone type cable

I also have a concern about the generator programming. I see the programming is for a 5.5 genset. We will have either a 7.0 or 8.0 Onan generator installed after the unit is built. What does it take in order to program the PCS for a larger generator?

Same as above, and can be done at same time.


The Inverter assist feature. Will this work with any Magnum inverter or does it require the Magnum Hybrid series inverter (which has built in assist capability).

PCS Inverter Assist works with ANY Magnum Inverter.
Hybrid assist capability is something different, it does not Monitor the entire RV. Lots of confusion about that in the RV world
Just need to know how the Magnum is wired into the RV


Reduced battery charging - is this only with a Magnum inverter with battery charging capabilities or can the PCS also control conventional style "Converter" charging?

Magnum Inverter only

Re: Power control system

If you have PCS reprogram your unit, it's going to be solely between you and PCS. Like any modification you do, if something goes wrong, you'll be on your own, perhaps with some level of support from PCS. Given that the PCS units are not well understood within our owner community, modification could be an adventure, and you could be on your way to becoming the expert.

If you're going to in some way cause interaction between the refrigerator's inverter and the PCS, you're also likely to become the expert on doing that. I don't think the refrigerator's inverter has much if any headroom to do anything else, so it might be best to leave it alone.

Btw, I don't have a PCS unit. And I never had to worry about using too much power.

Re: Power control system

danemayer said:

If you have PCS reprogram your unit, it's going to be solely between you and PCS. Like any modification you do, if something goes wrong, you'll be on your own,

Click to expand...

Really? - good to know - I better go back and go through my "And so it begins" thread

Seriously though, this isn't really a modification, just changing which relay turns off last.

Besides, what could possibly go wrong with moving the washer / dryer from #4 to #7 ?
I see a bigger problem having the W/D kicking in and out when it is running, not good for the computer that runs the machine. I have had issues trying to get the W/D to reset - reboot after a loss of power while it was being used.

I have read the literature on the forum here, and several other pieces on the PC Inc. website as well as several other forums that came up on a google hit. The device has a lot of features, some of which our trailers use, some they don't. And, other brand rigs that have this system have different programming then what Heartland uses.

danemayer said:

If you're going to in some way cause interaction between the refrigerator's inverter and the PCS, you're also likely to become the expert on doing that. I don't think the refrigerator's inverter has much if any headroom to do anything else, so it might be best to leave it alone.

Click to expand...

Personally I think the inverter used for the refrigerator is barely adequate for the fridge. A 1000 watt inverter running best case scenario of 90% only leaves 7.5 amps available.
Besides, for the invert and PCS to work together to offer inverter assist the inverter would have to be inline with the power circuits, not as a branch feeding one appliance.

danemayer said:

I BTW,I don't have a PCS unit. And I never had to worry about using too much power.

Click to expand...

I see the big benefit for when you are not on 50 amp service.

Adding Cheat Heat into the mix would be a plus.

Re: Power control system

Duane - what would your plan be for connecting Cheap Heat to the electrical system?

If there were breaker space in the AC panel, it would be great to have Cheap Heat connected there. In that manner, total current draw from L1 and L2 could be seen on the PCS panel.

I have Cheap Heat in a box in my RV, waiting to be installed (self) sometime in August. I believe they suggest you tie it into shore power L1 and L2 at the transfer switch. By not having visibility to true current draw through your shore power cord, it could give one a false sense of security.

That said, for me, when I need to use Cheap Heat, I don't need any of the 3 ACs, I don't have the induction cooktop and I have the tankless water heater (propane).

Re: Power control system

porthole said:

...Heartland does offer programming - Heartland is the end user that programs the PCS to their specs, not Precision Circuits. Offering to program to a customer's request is a different query...

Click to expand...

My info is a couple years old, but George at PCI told me they programmed a master display panel based on Heartland's requirements. That panel lives in a box or briefcase and has a connection port.

Heartland connects a new/blank PCS display panel to the master and the code is blown into it automatically. Then, when the display panel is installed in the coach and plugged into the control board in the AC breaker panel, the code is replicated there into that control board.

In this manner, if an end user needs to have the control board replaced (happened to me), when the display panel is plugged into the control board, it get automatically cloned from the display panel. I understand it works the other way too, in case one needed to replace the display panel.

At that time, I inquired of Heartland Engineering about accepting end user programming change requests and was told we don't plan to offer that. It's great to hear George offers that service. $250 isn't peanuts but in a more complicated system, it's surely with it.

Thanks for sharing what you've learned from Precision Circuits, Inc. George is the owner - nice fella.

Re: Power control system

jbeletti said:

Duane - what would your plan be for connecting Cheap Heat to the electrical system?

If there were breaker space in the AC panel, it would be great to have Cheap Heat connected there. In that manner, total current draw from L1 and L2 could be seen on the PCS panel.

I have Cheap Heat in a box in my RV, waiting to be installed (self) sometime in August. I believe they suggest you tie it into shore power L1 and L2 at the transfer switch. By not having visibility to true current draw through your shore power cord, it could give one a false sense of security.

That said, for me, when I need to use Cheap Heat, I don't need any of the 3 ACs, I don't have the induction cooktop and I have the tankless water heater (propane).

Click to expand...

My plan is - I don't have one yet.

My Cheap Heat is also sitting in a box. I picked it up at Goshen with the thoughts it could go in the Cyclone. Although I am not sure it will even fit. The Cyclone's air handler is vertical and it looks like the interior was built around it. The Cheap Heat plenum adapter looks to be 1/2" too wide to fit.

But, I also decided to get it when I did because of the price and the planned order on a new rig, which judging from your pictures should have plenty of room both for the kit and room to work.

The Cheap Heat itself, my conversations with Larry, IIRC, the newest version of the Cheap Heat has the ability to sense the incoming supply.
I would verify the following before taking my account.
Previously you wired the Cheap Heat based on what wattage setting you wanted to use. The lowest wattage option allowed basic 120 30 amp supply. The two higher setting require 240 volts, which I assume is why the preferred wiring is at the transfer switch. But, whichever wattage you choose you were stuck with it.
The newer packages I think can be wired as 240 and will auto-sense down to 120-30 amps.

Like I said, I am not sure, and I'm not sure how that would work. You get 240 by taking L1 and L2 and no neutral. 120 you get with L1 OR L2 and a neutral.

Obviously I don't have the LM to see what the panel box looks like, but the simple answer to "room" is to swap out breakers with twin breakers, two breakers in one housing using one leg for both.
I had to do that in the Cyclone.

Connecting the Cheap Heat at the shore power side of the transfer switch negates using it with an onboard generator. Although since the RV generators are 120 only, the Cheap Heat would have to be wired for the lowest wattage setting for use with the generator, unless I am correct in my understanding of the auto sense for line voltage.


As for programming with the PCS? Current or new rig is/will be a propane cooktop and oven with an electric/propane water heater. AC's obviously are not a concern when using the Cheap Heat, even if you do have heat pumps or heat strips. The thermostat will call for heat from either the furnace or heat strip/pump, but not both. You could bypass that with a separate heat only thermostat.

The three AC option, what controls the "only two at a time" compressor feature? The thermostats or the PCS control?

Looking at the PCS shed order again:


1 water heater
2 rear AC
3 front AC
4 washer dryer
5 mid AC
6 fireplace
7 microwave

I don't know if the Cheap Heat could even be shed, thinking it might require two 'slots' and the two relays would have to be simultaneous connect-disconnect.

As to re-programming - I am not going to spend $250 for something that should be done for a far lesser fee. Granted, when you are the only one that can do something you command your own price. But you you could command yourself right out of business as well.

Two work arounds. Just swap the feeds and have displays that read incorrectly, or the simplest, just re-wire the washer dryer to not be in the loop at all.

Until you have spent 1/2 to an hour of trying to get a Splendide to work correctly after having the power go on and off you can't appreciate it.

Re: Power control system

jbeletti said:

My info is a couple years old, but George at PCI told me they programmed a master display panel based on Heartland's requirements. That panel lives in a box or briefcase and has a connection port.

Heartland connects a new/blank PCS display panel to the master and the code is blown into it automatically. Then, when the display panel is installed in the coach and plugged into the control board in the AC breaker panel, the code is replicated there into that control board.

In this manner, if an end user needs to have the control board replaced (happened to me), when the display panel is plugged into the control board, it get automatically cloned from the display panel. I understand it works the other way too, in case one needed to replace the display panel.

At that time, I inquired of Heartland Engineering about accepting end user programming change requests and was told we don't plan to offer that. It's great to hear George offers that service. $250 isn't peanuts but in a more complicated system, it's surely with it.

Thanks for sharing what you've learned from Precision Circuits, Inc. George is the owner - nice fella.

Click to expand...

The windows PC and dongle for factory programming (Heartland or any brand) is what is specified on the latest literature on the PCS website.
Hopefully, since your info is 3 years old things have been upgraded.

3 years ago is a lifetime, so it will be worth the time it takes to ask Heartland about programming the changes.

Only two changes I would want, move the washer dryer to last and change the generator to at least 7KW

BTW, the questions and answers I posted above were to the contact form on the PCS website yesterday at 10:30, and I got the answer from George at 1:30, on a Sunday.

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Want to keep this going?

How about adding Solar into the choices of incoming power

Shore
Generator
Solar

Without actually having the trailer (and still no build date in site) I am still a bit undecided on supplemental power. Still waiting of ran answer on generator install options, seems communication in the Elkhart area has some delays built in. Heartland - Tiara - MOR/ryde etc

I am considering in place of an onboard generator, filling that space with batteries and a pair of Magnum Hybrid 3KW inverters (one on each line) and solar on the roof. Overall cost would be close to the generator option. The Magnum Hybrids will automatically supplement the incoming line power when demand exceeds supply. A Honda 2000 would probably be sufficient then for most of what we do.

For this option, having the PCS with the ability to detect when on solar power to be able to shed-block items you shouldn't be trying to run on solar, such as inductive heat and AC.