Heartland Quality

danemayer · Oct 22, 2018

rhodies1 said:
Dan,this is the problem,management has them running th asses off on the line and this leads to quality issues,quality issues lead to inferior products which lead to warranty issues.
ISO certification as mentioned by individuals who have lived though the process can see the end game,called quality... quality leads to less costs in the long run and MORE profit by the manufacturer.

yes they built a PDI center,,what did it cost and how much will quality issues cost to fix...always was told in the oil industry...You can always find time to do it the second time then why not do it right the first time..

RV manufactures need to pay attention to the future requirements or they won’t be around for the future..the big can fall as fast as the small..

In my early career, I was always puzzled by what appeared to be very high markups on the products with which I was involved. If a product has a parts cost of $500, how could it possibly makes sense to sell it for $2500?

Later in my career I reviewed product business cases, where all costs, direct and indirect were included. Suddenly my early career questions were answered. The unseen indirect costs completely change the pricing and profit equations.

When I think about volume RV manufacturing, I see a number of components contributing to the overall cost. Mostly we just think about parts and labor costs. But there's a very large cost component wrapped up in the manufacturing facility and equipment within, along with the hidden cost of indirect labor in procurement, finance, marketing, sales, customer support, warranty service etc.

The very significant cost of the manufacturing facility, equipment and indirect staff has to be allocated to each unit. So assuming you have enough orders, the faster you can build, the less cost assigned to each unit. That equation probably has more to do with profitability than any other cost component. The inverse of that is, the slower you build units, the more likely you are to have higher (non-competitive) pricing, or lousy profits.

When I think about superimposing detailed root cause analysis and similar approaches on that unstable, high turnover Elkhart workforce, in that fast-moving production line, I can foresee a line that moves much more slowly, with training that takes much longer. That will raise the per unit allocation of those indirect costs.

So when I see that no RV manufacturer has an ISO 9001 certification, it doesn't surprise me at all. I'm sure they all realize that adopting those process would come at a really high cost, not at all offset by savings in warranty.

Some industries are well suited to these types of quality processes and certifications. I doubt very much that the RV industry ever will be.

RickL · Oct 22, 2018

danemayer said:
In my early career, I was always puzzled by what appeared to be very high markups on the products with which I was involved. If a product has a parts cost of $500, how could it possibly makes sense to sell it for $2500?

Later in my career I reviewed product business cases, where all costs, direct and indirect were included. Suddenly my early career questions were answered. The unseen indirect costs completely change the pricing and profit equations.

When I think about volume RV manufacturing, I see a number of components contributing to the overall cost. Mostly we just think about parts and labor costs. But there's a very large cost component wrapped up in the manufacturing facility and equipment within, along with the hidden cost of indirect labor in procurement, finance, marketing, sales, customer support, warranty service etc.

The very significant cost of the manufacturing facility, equipment and indirect staff has to be allocated to each unit. So assuming you have enough orders, the faster you can build, the less cost assigned to each unit. That equation probably has more to do with profitability than any other cost component. The inverse of that is, the slower you build units, the more likely you are to have higher (non-competitive) pricing, or lousy profits.

When I think about superimposing detailed root cause analysis and similar approaches on that unstable, high turnover Elkhart workforce, in that fast-moving production line, I can foresee a line that moves much more slowly, with training that takes much longer. That will raise the per unit allocation of those indirect costs.

So when I see that no RV manufacturer has an ISO 9001 certification, it doesn't surprise me at all. I'm sure they all realize that adopting those process would come at a really high cost, not at all offset by savings in warranty.

Some industries are well suited to these types of quality processes and certifications. I doubt very much that the RV industry ever will be.

Dan you do make a compelling case. However, Grand Design came basically out of no where with the thought of improving the quality side of building RV’s. Not saying they are the gold standard or the testament every manufacture needs to achieve.

But I submit that NOT paying attention to detail or the finished product eventually catch’s up to every company. The list of poor products are scattered near and far. There is a substantial cost involved in being a ISO certified but it holds everyone accountable to perform their job. The balancing act is between controlling costs, selling enough “widgets” and marketing is why top level managers get compensated for what they bring to the party.

Unfortunately what I have seen is a dumbing down of expectations when you purchase a RV. If you purchased a BMW or Lexus and knobs fell off or things didn’t work those that made that purchase would (and should be) howling. In the rush to fill the market/ retain or increase market share the RV manufactures seem to not have learn lessons that vehicle manufactures have learned over the years. Running the business is much like playing golf, risk or reward. If you do everything right hitting the shot you can do better then par. But, make one error, your over par. No business can survive playing par forever as someone will come along and move the bar. As Ray Kroc once said, are you green and growing or are you ripe and rotting.

dave10a · Oct 23, 2018

My motive in this discussion is to be constructive. The RV industry has built over 500,000 units in 2017 and is still going strong. The major problem is quality control. The RV industry came together to adopt RVIA standards and I think they should come together to adopt ISO or any ligitimate commitment to quality. Ford, GM an Chrysler adopted ISO after tayloring it to the auto industry and I see no reason the RV can not do the same.

kkamshop · Oct 23, 2018

Quote "

However, Grand Design came basically out of no where with the thought of improving the quality side of building RV’s. Not saying they are the gold standard or the testament every manufacture needs to achieve."

Back when Heartland began making Landmarks, you would have said the same of them.

Truth is, that until any RV manufacturer stops paying for the speed of piecework (where the line workers get to leave as soon as X number of units have gone down the line per day), quality is not going to improve to any significant degree.

RickL · Oct 23, 2018

kkamshop said:
Quote "
However, Grand Design came basically out of no where with the thought of improving the quality side of building RV’s. Not saying they are the gold standard or the testament every manufacture needs to achieve."

Back when Heartland began making Landmarks, you would have said the same of them.

Truth is, that until any RV manufacturer stops paying for the speed of piecework (where the line workers get to leave as soon as X number of units have gone down the line per day), quality is not going to improve to any significant degree.

As Dave10a has stated this discussion is only meant to be constructive. This was never meant, at least for me, to be a Heartland bashing. It’s only a call to hopefully create a discussion that maybe management reads these posts from time to time and hears what their customers are expressing.

To your our point that they need to stop paying for speed I humbly disagree. Poor quality in my opinion is a direct result of various reasons. One could be poor design, inferior materials, sloppy work processes, apathetic work force (failure to attract and retain qualified associates), ill focused management, and probably my largest issue senior management so disconnected from their intended or existing customer base they ignore long term issues in pursuit of short term gains.

Having been in management for the most part of my working career I have seen middle and senior managers manage for today with little to no regard to leaving a long term sustainable legacy. If anything it was how do I increase my compensation which usually means they are grabbing for the next rung on the ladder. To do that, they make poor long term decisions but puts them in the best spot light today.

This is is the issue to me, it’s not necessarily the floor workers but rather managers not being held accountable. Compensation should be based on sustainable results, not immediate results. Their bonuses should be based on a component based plan, looking at results today, quality/ warranty adjustments, and long term results.

MTPockets · Oct 23, 2018

My company went through the ISO process and became certified. Simply put, when you follow a process and standards that you set, then comply with those standards, you get certified for compliance to the process. I realize it’s more detailed, but product quality of company A, doesn’t mean it’s the same as company B even if both are ISO certified. Also, there are different levels of certification.

Oldelevatorman · Oct 25, 2018

dave10a said:
My motive in this discussion is to be constructive. The RV industry has built over 500,000 units in 2017 and is still going strong. The major problem is quality control. The RV industry came together to adopt RVIA standards and I think they should come together to adopt ISO or any ligitimate commitment to quality. Ford, GM an Chrysler adopted ISO after tayloring it to the auto industry and I see no reason the RV can not do the same.

I don’t think much will ever change with the manufacturers. Things are going too well for them. And for that matter why isn’t the NHTSA more involved with the RV industry, or are they? And Dealers should do a better job of educating the consumer and every owner of an RV should have an ‘RV License’! I know, fat chance of any of that happening, that makes too much sense!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

donr827 · Oct 25, 2018

It is up to buyers to do a much better PDI before signing the paperwork. Do a very PDI and have the dealer fix and clean everything you spot. Quite a few years ago I was buying a new Hitchhiker from a dealer who also sold Montanas. The PDI man for the dealer said he had very little to do on the Hitchhikers but the Montanas required a lot adjustments and fixes.
Don

Heartland Quality

danemayer

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RickL

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dave10a

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kkamshop

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RickL

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MTPockets

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Oldelevatorman

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donr827

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