12V System Idle Voltage Reading

[BigHorns]

It's my understanding that the 12V system should generally be reading just upwards of 13 volts (as presented on the interior panel) when plugged into shore power - 13.2, 13.4- which should be Converter voltage assuming the batteries are charged. I'm typically seeing 12.58 - 12.85 (or 12.93 as I write).

When I arrived at the park I'm currently setting in, this read over 14V upon plugging into shore power as expected- batteries needed more charge after travelling. In a while, it settled down to just above 13V. But few days later, as usual, I note it's back to reading mid-to-upper 12s.

I'm curious why I'm not typically reading above 13 volts when I assume the batteries are charged. When I see 12.8 volts when plugged in, I want to think the batteries are not fully charged.

I've read the user guide on file here in the forum and am about to head through it again, as well. Thoughts welcome.

 

[mlpeloquin]

Have you checked your converter. Does it have 120V in and are the output fuses blown? The converter's output should be around 13.5V Look at the Heartland Owners Manuals under Electrical.

https://manuals.heartlandowners.org/manuals/User Guides/Electrical V1.pdf

 

[BigHorns]

Have you checked your converter. Does it have 120V in and are the output fuses blown? The converter's output should be around 13.5V Look at the Heartland Owners Manuals under Electrical.

Thanks for the reply. I have not delved into finding those fuses yet nor finding and getting to the converter, for that matter (new in the 5W). But this issue is pushing on that as a next step.

However, when I consistently park and plug into shore power and see the 12V system immediately registering 13.5 - 14.5 (depending on the charge needs of the batteries at that point) I assume the Converter is working. It's that fall-off to ~12.8 in a couple days (roughly speaking) that I don't understand. I wouldn't see that 13.5-14.5 upon plugging in if the Converter isn't working. Right?

 

[danemayer]

I assume you're reading the voltage on the Lippert Levelup Panel.

The voltage reading reflects all power sources including batteries, output of the Power Converter, and tow vehicle, if connected. You could remove the batteries and still read the output of the Power Converter. Conversely, if the Power Converter isn't working, you'll read the battery voltage or output from tow vehicle, if connected.

So, while disconnected from the truck, and connected to shore power, you should usually see a voltage reading between 13.2 and 13.6V, reflecting normal output of the Power Converter. If the batteries are low, you could see 14.0V for a bit. If you have 13.2-13.6V, and turn off the circuit breaker that powers the Power Converter, the voltage will drop into the 12.6V range, reflecting fully charged batteries. If the batteries are over a year old, they may read closer to 12.5V when charged as fully as they will charge.

A voltage reading of less than 13V but above 12.6V when connected to shore power would suggest the Power Converter is not working correctly.

Before buying a new converter, I'd suggest that when you see that type of reading, you use a volt meter to confirm the reading. Check it at your batteries with the red meter lead on the positive terminal of the battery and the black meter lead on a known good ground. There could be a ground buss bar near the batteries that would be good. The frame, if you scratch a clean area, is ground.

If you confirm a low reading, it's probably the Power Converter, but you might want to take a reading at the Power Converter output connections to eliminate the possibility that there's a wiring problem elsewhere.

 

[BigHorns]

I assume you're reading the voltage on the Lippert Levelup Panel.

I'm reading it from the LCI OneControl panel inside.

The voltage reading reflects all power sources including batteries, output of the Power Converter, and tow vehicle, if connected.

Yes, as well as any solar generation attached. I have the tiny factory solar panel glued to the roof and connected to the small PWM Charge Controller in the battery bay.

I'm currently in a park on shore power. At 6:30 this morning (no sun on that toy solar panel), the LCI panel was reading ~12.8v (as it has been for days). I shut the breaker to the converter off for a few seconds. With the breaker off, the voltage dropped to ~12.5 (I didn't write it down). When I flipped the breaker back on, the voltage then went to ~14.4. It's now 4 hours later and it still reads 14.29-14.31. I've had this happen before wherein I have a lower voltage reading on the panel, recycle power to the converter, and voltage suddenly jumps to a charge voltage. But still there four hours later???? Batteries were near full charge!

Just measured at the batteries (with VOM) and got 14.3. I cut out the batteries via the disconnect and measured at the batteries again. Measured 14.2. Then remembered that little solar panel. Noticed the charge controller read 14.2. Closed the disconnect and again measured 14.3. I figure the difference is simply diff between the converter and the solar panel outputs.

Why does the controller output voltage suddenly jump up over 14v just by cycling its power source? If the batteries needed charge, it should have already been up there.
Why is that voltage still well over 14v hours later when the batteries were reading 12.5v+ (full charge?) with the converter off? Charge control not working?

 

[wdk450]

It SOUNDS like you have a Progressive 9200 series converter/charger from the voltage readings you cite. The end (idling) reading is too low, though. My rig goes to 13.2 volts about 48 hours after connecting to shorepower. It is a great aid to see what mode the converter/charger is in if you have the Charge Wizard remote pendant indicator/switch connected to the converter/charger and mounted inside the trailer where you can see it. You need to check out how the charge wizard circuitry is supposed to work, and maybe then contact Progressive Industries about possible warranty repairs.

Here is a link to the operation of the Charge Wizard circuitry: https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/charge-wizard/

 

[BigHorns]

It SOUNDS like you have a Progressive 9200 series converter/charger from the voltage readings you cite. The end (idling) reading is too low, though. My rig goes to 13.2 volts about 48 hours after connecting to shorepower. It is a great aid to see what mode the converter/charger is in if you have the Charge Wizard remote pendant indicator/switch connected to the converter/charger and mounted inside the trailer where you can see it. You need to check out how the charge wizard circuitry is supposed to work, and maybe then contact Progressive Industries about possible warranty repairs.

Here is a link to the operation of the Charge Wizard circuitry: https://www.progressivedyn.com/rv/charge-wizard/

Yes, I would give anything to be able to see what mode it's in. Have to look into that.

After this morning's testing, recycling of the converter power, and my previous message, my voltage reading just dropped to 13.27.

It is now my belief that my Converter may have a problem in that after a few days plugged in, it's charge management, or, ultimately, it's output voltage drops. It drops to that ~12.8v range I see a lot. If I reset it (its breaker off and back on), it comes back to life, charges the batteries, and backs off to its idle/maintenance voltage until it fails and backs off to that 12.8v range again. I've seen this cycle more than once now. When it backed off to 13.27 a bit ago, I shut its breaker off to read battery voltage without it. It read 12.7- as it should have if fully charged. Kicked the breaker back on and the voltage remained at 13.27. I expect in a while (hours, or day or two) it will fall back to 12.8 range.

 

[danemayer]

To me, it sounds like your Power Converter is erratic. But I'm wondering about the solar controller and what effect is may have on readings. If it is putting out 14V or thereabouts, I'd think that's what you'd see on the Lippert panel. It might be worth disconnecting the solar controller to see if that changes anything.

If nothing changes, I'd suggest contacting Progressive Dynamics at [FONT=&quot](269) 781-4241. [/FONT]They may have an opinion about the symptoms you're seeing.

 

[wdk450]

BTW, I soldered one of these small, cheap, DVM modules on the tank panel "Test" switch, and mounted it to the top of the tank panel bezel. Now, every time I push the "Test" switch the DVM lights up with a digital display of the voltage.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Voltm...=233282591567aaa5ccc3571d498b8292bca2e33545c8

 

[BigHorns]

But I'm wondering about the solar controller and what effect is may have on readings. If it is putting out 14V or thereabouts, I'd think that's what you'd see on the Lippert panel.

Well, the solar panel's charge controller should be doing the same thing the charge controller in the Converter is doing. If batteries are fully charged, for example, the Converter's charge controller controls voltage output to 13.2. The solar panel's charge controller does the same thing.

So if the batteries are fully charged, (and here's where it gets fuzzy for me) any voltage reading in the 12V system should be the max output of those two charge controllers (allowing for the possibility that they aren't set for identical maintenance voltages). No?

BTW, ever since yesterday morning's reset of my Converter it has behaved as expected. Still reading a perfect 13.2.

 

[danemayer]

Well, the solar panel's charge controller should be doing the same thing the charge controller in the Converter is doing. If batteries are fully charged, for example, the Converter's charge controller controls voltage output to 13.2. The solar panel's charge controller does the same thing.

So if the batteries are fully charged, (and here's where it gets fuzzy for me) any voltage reading in the 12V system should be the max output of those two charge controllers (allowing for the possibility that they aren't set for identical maintenance voltages). No?

BTW, ever since yesterday morning's reset of my Converter it has behaved as expected. Still reading a perfect 13.2.

I'm wondering if your readings are coming from the Solar Charge Controller rather than from the Power Converter. That's why I suggested disconnecting it - so you can get a clear view of what the Converter is doing.

 

[BigHorns]

I'm wondering if your readings are coming from the Solar Charge Controller rather than from the Power Converter. That's why I suggested disconnecting it - so you can get a clear view of what the Converter is doing.

Been out of pocket for a while here, Dan, but still working the same issue. The reading I'm getting on the inside OneControl panel is definitely the Controller. When I shut off the breaker to the Converter, or shut off the 50A breaker on the pedestal, the voltage displayed immediately drops to battery voltage only.

And the issue remains, though I'm able to manage it right now. After a few days of behaving as it should, the Converter voltage will suddenly drop from its 13.2 to around 12.8. If I shut off AC power to it (reset it?) and turn it back on, it will jump back up to 14+ to charge the batteries and settle back at 13.2 for a few days when it falls again. Like clockwork.

I'm going to be on the horn with Heartland in the morning as they have agreed to have a tech come out to install the Solar On The Side port that is supposed to be on the 5W but was not installed at the factory. We'll be discussing the Converter as well.

I'm just curious about that 12.8 voltage it falls to- the significance of that voltage itself. It's above battery voltage but below Converter maintenance voltage. Is that range of 12.8 significant in any way? Just curious.

 

[danemayer]

12.8V sounds like either a bad Power Converter, or something from another source. Possibly bad connections/readout on the control panel.