Hello, glad to find this site. We currently have a 2012 Cyclone 4014 and I am having a hard time figuring out a water problem. We are pretty much full timers working on the road and bought this unit in June of last year. After dealer checked all the systems and we got to where we were headed and set up I noticed the fresh water drain was open, so I shut it. A week later water at 10 at night someone wakes me to tell me that water is ROLLING out from under the trailer, so much so that the park owners were freaking out and even spent the next day diagnosing the problem while I was at work. He told me the 4 way valve was leaking letting water go to the holding tank, so he had capped it off, and I could no longer use the holding tank until the 4 way was fixed. I had let it be since we could run on city water until 2 weeks ago I decided I was going to fix a few things on the trailer. Called Anderson Brass to ask them about this 4 way, super nice folks BTW, told me they had NEVER had this 4 way leak and sent me a brand new one and asked me to send the old one in for analysis. Put the new 4 way on and no problems, until Friday. My heated water hose was splitting and trying to leak. Nice warm day I'll fill my holding tank and run on the pump. Switched the new 4 way to holding tank and it immediately started pouring out of the underbelly so switched to NORMAL on 4 way valve to run the pump. Everything worked great until we woke up the next morning to find water flooding out into the living room/kitchen and standing water in basement. Switched back to city got a different heated hose run for 3 hours last night before a knock on the door again telling me water was ROLLING out again. I'm ready to tear my hair out. Shut water off last night to cap off the holding tank side of 4 way valve like we did the first time and now my hose is froze and we have NO water. Sorry needed to vent a little. I have read about the water pump problems on here. If the check valve is letting water back into my holding tank is it going back thru the 4 way valve? If not why does capping off the holding tank side of 4 way valve keep the ROLLING water from happening? I'm going to call a service place this week to come out and fix it and I'd like to know which pump to switch to and where to put check valves to no longer have this problem. Thanks, Kevin
ATF: Cyclone - Needing Info on Water System
- Thread starter 798welder
- Start date
danemayer
Well-known member
Hi 798Welder,
Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum. Sorry you found the forum under trying circumstances, but I'm glad you found us.
If you switch the selector to TANK, water from the hose goes into the fresh tank until it's full, and then spills out of the tank. If this happened immediately, it might mean the tank was already full. Or perhaps there's a venting problem preventing air in the tank from escaping as you add water.
I assume while switched to NORMAL, that you had the water pump turned on, ready to supply water. Did you hear the pump running at times when you didn't have faucets open? Pump running with faucets closed indicates a leak somewhere in the plumbing system.
Were you able to determine where the water in the living room was coming from? My guess would be you have a loose water connection causing all of this flooding.
You might have more than one problem. But the most serious one, and perhaps the only problem is the flooded living room and basement. It sounds like a serious leak. If the kitchen plumbing looks ok, take down the basement storage wall by the UDC and look at the plumbing behind the UDC.
Please let us know what you find.
Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum. Sorry you found the forum under trying circumstances, but I'm glad you found us.
If you switch the selector to TANK, water from the hose goes into the fresh tank until it's full, and then spills out of the tank. If this happened immediately, it might mean the tank was already full. Or perhaps there's a venting problem preventing air in the tank from escaping as you add water.
I assume while switched to NORMAL, that you had the water pump turned on, ready to supply water. Did you hear the pump running at times when you didn't have faucets open? Pump running with faucets closed indicates a leak somewhere in the plumbing system.
Were you able to determine where the water in the living room was coming from? My guess would be you have a loose water connection causing all of this flooding.
The city water line from the Anderson Valve is teed into the fresh water line on the output side of the pump. It has to be this way since you want to run faucets off of either supply. There is a check valve or something similar built into the pump so that city water doesn't go through the tee, and flow backwards through the pump and into the fresh tank. But if debris gets stuck in the check valve, it can allow water to flow backwards into the fresh tank causing overflow (see my crude sketch below). The Anderson Valve is not in the middle of that scenario. Some of us have had problems with the check valve on Shurflo pumps causing exactly this problem. I've installed a Shurflo in-line checkvalve on the output line from the pump as additional protection.
You might have more than one problem. But the most serious one, and perhaps the only problem is the flooded living room and basement. It sounds like a serious leak. If the kitchen plumbing looks ok, take down the basement storage wall by the UDC and look at the plumbing behind the UDC.
Please let us know what you find.
jayandhisgals
Well-known member
We discovered the same issues last night. When connected to city water (switch on city) our holding tank is filling then overflowing. Everything is soaked including basement, Insulation sopping wet, wood underneath soft. We are also working and living out of RV. This is a huge inconvenience, it's not the first water problem, let alone the only problem we have had with this rig. Talked to HL Cust. Serv. they can't do anything but make an appt. at the dealership for me. Dealer can't get us in until July 19th. and then we are gonna need to find someplace to stay.Cust. Serv. said to pinch off the line for the fresh water tank. How do I access that? Do I remove the UDC? Do I take down the basement wall? Ugggg, I just want this thing to work as good as the internet commercial we watched prior to buying states it will. The advertisements for HL and the Cyclone state that these are top of the line units. It sure doesn't feel like that is true. I can't express how disappointed we are in this rig. So many problems. I wish we could just return it and go buy something else.
We had a similar problem. Our Shurflo pump was leaking back to the holding tank when on city water shortly after we bought it. I swapped the pump out in the basement and all has been well since. The newer Shurflo 5.7 pumps are famous for issues. I really wish I had my old Shurflo and accumulator tank from my old trailer. In any event though, these are all common issues with any coach. Switching brands from Heartland will only buy you additional grief I assure you, and keep in mind they all use the same build components.
Get it to a dealer and they'll get it fixed up for you. It's not a complicated system honestly.
Get it to a dealer and they'll get it fixed up for you. It's not a complicated system honestly.
danemayer
Well-known member
jayandhisgals,
If you read my post that was just before yours, it has a drawing that explains the problem you're having with a link to the check valve that is a workaround to fix the problem for a few bucks, until the pump can be replaced. The pump is usually located behind the basement wall which comes down easily by removing a few screws.
Until you can get to the dealer, or get a mobile tech, adding the check valve may be the quickest way to deal with the problem. In the meantime, to prevent further overfilling, you may have to leave the fresh tank drain open, or turn off the city water when overnight and when away from the trailer.
If you read my post that was just before yours, it has a drawing that explains the problem you're having with a link to the check valve that is a workaround to fix the problem for a few bucks, until the pump can be replaced. The pump is usually located behind the basement wall which comes down easily by removing a few screws.
Until you can get to the dealer, or get a mobile tech, adding the check valve may be the quickest way to deal with the problem. In the meantime, to prevent further overfilling, you may have to leave the fresh tank drain open, or turn off the city water when overnight and when away from the trailer.
Actually, depending on your model it might be even easier than that. Mine was accessable through the air intake located between the stairs. I didn't even have to pull a basement panel off.
I did as danemayer suggested and just left my tank open while in use & turned it off for overnight and away. It ran out as fast as it leaked in.
I did as danemayer suggested and just left my tank open while in use & turned it off for overnight and away. It ran out as fast as it leaked in.
travis_g
Well-known member
Slightly off main topic but what is the little hole between the 4 way switch and the inlet connection? I see it has a hose attached in the back, is it the fresh tank vent? If I fill the tank is this where it will overflow or if not how do I tell when it's full? One more aisde: to winterize I see two valves on the water heater hoses. Do I just reverse those? I've seen others talk about a separate hose from the water pump to winterize, do you not have that if you have the 4 way valve? If not that's great to not need that to winterize but If I need to change the WH bypass I still need to take down the basement wall right? Has anyone re-plumbed those valves to be accessible from the UDC?
Sorry for so many questions at once.
Sorry for so many questions at once.
danemayer
Well-known member
Hi Tony,
Heartland used a gravity fill for the fresh tank fill for many years. You'd just put your hose into the opening, turn on the faucet, and let the water flow into the fresh tank with help from gravity.
They recently switched to an Anderson 4-way Valve where the water connects. Depending on which way the valve (switch) is turned, you can 1) run off city water 2) run off the fresh tank 3)fill the fresh tank 4) add antifreeze/sanitize.
danemayer
Well-known member
Slightly off main topic but what is the little hole between the 4 way switch and the inlet connection? I see it has a hose attached in the back, is it the fresh tank vent? If I fill the tank is this where it will overflow or if not how do I tell when it's full? One more aisde: to winterize I see two valves on the water heater hoses. Do I just reverse those? I've seen others talk about a separate hose from the water pump to winterize, do you not have that if you have the 4 way valve? If not that's great to not need that to winterize but If I need to change the WH bypass I still need to take down the basement wall right? Has anyone re-plumbed those valves to be accessible from the UDC?
Sorry for so many questions at once.
Hi travis_g,
The little hole with a screen (and no hose connection) is the air vent. When you fill the fresh water tank, you're displacing air, which has to have somewhere to go.
With the Anderson 4-way valve, there are overflow hoses connected to the top of the fresh tank(s). On some toy haulers, these overflow hoses terminate near the steps. FIlling until it overflows is one method. But I'd suggest getting an inexpensive water meter so you know how much water you're putting in. Here's a link to one on Amazon.com. You can approximate this by periodically checking the lights on the control panel inside, but the sensors aren't terribly accurate.
The water heater bypass comes in two flavors. On some of the models like Landmark, Bighorn, Big Country, etc., there is a bypass valve in the UDC. You simply rotate the handle 90 degrees and you're ready to proceed with winterizing. On other models, there'll be 3 valves inside near the water heater. One on the hot line, one on the cold line, and one on a line that crosses between hot and cold. To bypass, you shut the hot and cold valves and open the crossover valve. When de-winterizing, you reverse.
Here's a picture from an MPG trailer.
After bypassing the water heater, then the antifreeze is introduced into the water system through the hose stub that's in the UDC or tucked away in the vicinity of the other plumbing controls if you don't have a UDC.
jayandhisgals
Well-known member
Hey thanks, I think you are right . I did some investigation and have found the same with the newer design of the Shurflo 5.7 pumps with built in backflow valve issues also. Seems that I have a combination of issues once again coincidentally enough, showing up at the same time. The black water flush plumbing must also be leaking as when it is used I now see H2O dripping from below the tank valve door and it has soaked the insulation under the rig's heater and H2o heater. I think I will remove the plastic liner under the insulation that holds it against the particle board floor underlayment before it delaminated any more & try to dry it all out with a fan thru the removed basement wall on the ODS. Just seems as though QC has a lot to be desired if existent for Heartland! Sure, Heartland has been great to deal with so far we just never expect to have soo many issues on a brand new rig based on all of the sales brochure features and company produced online videos touting such excellence in design, testing, research and development that Heartland's company reputation is built upon and what makes their products better than the rest. So far we get excited when more than a few weeks go by and we have not had to add any new issues to the ever growing list of problems, adjustments, electrical connections not right and hooked up backwards (fire Hazard), multiple service calls, water leaks, parts replacements (3 rear awning motors since Oct 12)...., replacing screws all over this thing every time after it is hauled ( literally screw heads come up missing from weak, cheap screw hardware, no pre-drilling, cross threading, sloppiness etc. from the factory's builders!), diagnoses, drop off/pick up trips at service dealers etc.... not to mention lost time, lack of use, added expenses, frustration.... and that our 1 year warranty is up in Sept. and no end in sight yet!, plus having to live with the damages created from things failing like water effects on some of the wood finishes being left swollen, compromising floor underlayment and the worry of Black Mold growth if things are not remedied and dried out quickly! every time! Maybe mine was being finished up at the Mfg. just before a holiday weekend and the following tuesday with the "B" crew while all were still hung over or high from fumes from the paint shop or something?? I dunno! Maybe we should take this thing back to Indiana and have them Go through it, test everything, fix all the damages from previous sys. failures etc... because so far, I am not confident that this thing is going to get any better based on my experiences, what I see with regards to workmanship in general, quality of the parts supplied by the vendors and used in manufacturing etc... from the perspective of a semi retired, automotive industry expert, who has been a very successful service center owner, operator for over 20 years (& built my business from the ground up) by getting it RIGHT the first time or losing my reputation and loyal business clientele!! Please Don't mis understand, we desperately want to love our 2012 HL Cyclone 3712 but were not enjoying feeling buyer's remorse but all has not been well with it at any point, hate to say it but our 99 Winnebago class A with 132K mi. did not give me 1/50 'th the trouble in 10+ yrs. that this brand new Cyclone has and the RV had its own motor, trans. & major components that are expected to have issues especially as they age that's why we bought a New 5 er toy hauler instead of a newer diesel pusher with a car and toy trailer for towing the extra's. I expected we would avoid these constant issues even for a little while by purchasing a Brand New rig vs a lightly used one. Anyways, Thanks for the heads up on the Shurflo & your moral support. I think I'm finished rambling and venting for now, besides I better get back to work on fixing this **** thing again, daylight is a wastin' and I need something to drink!
Many Thanks
Jason DeFazio & Family
currently in Branson Mo. for now and headed for a Grand tour of the Western United states and it's national parks with the family
Hopefully our new RV won't turn this into "Ruined Vacation" , , fingers crossed!
I dunno! Maybe we should take this thing back to Indiana and have them Go through it, test everything, fix all the damages from previous sys. failures etc... because so far, I am not confident that this thing is going to get any better based on my experiences, what I see with regards to workmanship in general, quality of the parts supplied by the vendors and used in manufacturing etc... from the perspective of a semi retired, automotive industry expert, who has been a very successful service center owner, operator for over 20 years (& built my business from the ground up) by getting it RIGHT the first time or losing my reputation and loyal business clientele!! Please Don't mis understand, we desperately want to love our 2012 HL Cyclone 3712 but were not enjoying feeling buyer's remorse but all has not been well with it at any point, hate to say it but our 99 Winnebago class A with 132K mi. did not give me 1/50 'th the trouble in 10+ yrs. that this brand new Cyclone has and the RV had its own motor, trans. & major components that are expected to have issues especially as they age that's why we bought a New 5 er toy hauler instead of a newer diesel pusher with a car and toy trailer for towing the extra's. I expected we would avoid these constant issues even for a little while by purchasing a Brand New rig vs a lightly used one. Anyways, Thanks for the heads up on the Shurflo & your moral support. I think I'm finished rambling and venting for now, besides I better get back to work on fixing this **** thing again, daylight is a wastin' and I need something to drink!Many Thanks
Jason DeFazio & Family
currently in Branson Mo. for now and headed for a Grand tour of the Western United states and it's national parks with the family
Hopefully our new RV won't turn this into "Ruined Vacation"
, , fingers crossed!
Mizmary
Well-known member
Enjoy your trip and be safe. :-D and keep in the mindset that no matter what happens it's an adventure.
I have some crazy stories to tell about all of the trips we've taken. But even if troubles happen, a good attitude can make a not-so-good situation a funny story later. ;-P
I have some crazy stories to tell about all of the trips we've taken. But even if troubles happen, a good attitude can make a not-so-good situation a funny story later. ;-P
Man sorry for the troubles you've had. We've just had very few issues. None were factory related. Lost a crappy Towmax tire in the first trip just short of 600 miles. I questioned it at the PDI. Dealer said it was fine get going. Heartland wouldn't stand behind it. Replaced all of those eventually. Water pump wasn't holding pressure like I said. No suprise there. Shurflo's issue. Last year, two yrs into it, I smelled gas outside and I traced it to a leaky regulator. Short of....problem free for three seasons. We don't full time, but we're in it every weekend on our northern lake property.
Good luck!!
Good luck!!
I had that same problem with that puple reg leaking too I took it off it is ment for if you hooked up to a utility as a primary regulator than the main switch over regulator reduces it from there..I have a 3712 2012 Cyclone the towmax are **** I had 3 go out on a trip to Montana and had to replace all 7 heartland needs to stop using them, they are crap china bombs....the Mfg says they are like gold....what a load of crap I have had no problem with the water pump at all thank God !!
I know the factory says the don't have issues with Towmax, and obviously there's countless tales of problems, I think we should start a TowMax Poll. Prehaps we can show Heartland that we don't WANT this junk. Would be interesting to see how many people have replaced them. If they were smart, using the right tires could be a selling point.
