Different Towing Weight Question?

[Aero_Dave]

OK, I’m sure Everyone is sick of reading Another Weight / Towing / Capacity / Truck-Trailer post. Trust me, I’ve read Everything I could find about this subject myself. Just as you may have found, the more I read, the more confused I get. Some will say, ‘I tow without any issue’ yet based on their numbers, they are Not legally towing within the ‘correct’ limits of their TV. So I have just 1 question that ‘maybe’ a little different than most. I have not seen this question before, so I thought I would ask.

If my TV has a Base Rear Axle Weight of 2842 & a Rear GAWR of 6200, I calculate that as 6200 – 2842 = 3358lbs. Yet my Payload is only rated at 2460.
So if I was to add the Air Ride Load Lifter 5000, does that mean I now have the full 3358lbs available as cargo weight?

Of course the ‘Main’ reason I’m asking, is just like all others. I’m wondering what my TV can safely handle for a 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel & Kin Pin weight.

Here are my TV full spec’s:

2013 Ram 2500 6.7 CTD, CCLB 4x4
GVWR – 10,000
GCWR – 25,000
Base Truck – 7544 (Includes 150lbs driver & fuel)
GAWR Rear – 6200
Payload – 2460
Max Trailer Weight – 17,290
Rear Tires are rated at 3195 each.


Thanks,
Dave…

 

[Bones]

OK, I’m sure Everyone is sick of reading Another Weight / Towing / Capacity / Truck-Trailer post. Trust me, I’ve read Everything I could find about this subject myself. Just as you may have found, the more I read, the more confused I get. Some will say, ‘I tow without any issue’ yet based on their numbers, they are Not legally towing within the ‘correct’ limits of their TV. So I have just 1 question that ‘maybe’ a little different than most. I have not seen this question before, so I thought I would ask.

If my TV has a Base Rear Axle Weight of 2842 & a Rear GAWR of 6200, I calculate that as 6200 – 2842 = 3358lbs. Yet my Payload is only rated at 2460.
So if I was to add the Air Ride Load Lifter 5000, does that mean I now have the full 3358lbs available as cargo weight?

Of course the ‘Main’ reason I’m asking, is just like all others. I’m wondering what my TV can safely handle for a 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel & Kin Pin weight.

Here are my TV full spec’s:

2013 Ram 2500 6.7 CTD, CCLB 4x4
GVWR – 10,000
GCWR – 25,000
Base Truck – 7544 (Includes 150lbs driver & fuel)
GAWR Rear – 6200
Payload – 2460
Max Trailer Weight – 17,290
Rear Tires are rated at 3195 each.


Thanks,
Dave…

Legal no. Even the load lifter bag should state that they do not increase your payload capacity but only level off your ride. The legal answer is because your truck is only registered to 10k so when and if you ever get pulled over you could be fined for being overweight.

 

[danemayer]

The payload is low because there's some other weak link in the system.


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[Aero_Dave]

The payload is low because there's some other weak link in the system.


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Exactly, like Springs. That's why I would add the Air Lift system. But the confusing part is, I guess I would be over the 10,000 GVWR
if I had more than the 2460 rated as Cargo limit. This limit is what's killing my Kin Pin Weight / 5th wheel options.

Dave...

 

[Bones]

Exactly, like Springs. That's why I would add the Air Lift system. But the confusing part is, I guess I would be over the 10,000 GVWR
if I had more than the 2460 rated as Cargo limit. This limit is what's killing my Kin Pin Weight / 5th wheel options.

Dave...

Yup. My 5th wheel measured out to be about 18.5% of the trailer GVW

 

[avvidclif]

The GVWR probably has a lot to do with it but The RAWR is based (guessing) on a standard bed with a regular cab and not the loaded (accy) truck.

 

[weekender01]

I am going to give my opinion as I have a 2013 Ford F-250 and have the exact issue as you do with the difference in my actual rear axle vs. rated in relation to my payload rating.

I weighed my truck and found that I have 2800# until I hit my GAWR of 6100#, but my available payload is ony 2080#. The reason is that the GVWR on my truck is only 10000#. Now with that said I know for a fact that I have an F350 truck (except 2 parts, a 4" block vs my 2" and a slightly smaller and I mean slighter smaller rear axle), but the F350 has a GVWR of 11500#. How can a there be 1500# difference in the rating for a truck that is built with the same parts and has the same tow capacities? I think it is a "game" that the manufacturers play to cover their you know what and to also build a truck at certain GVWR for license issues such as is/was the case in CA.

I am not sure what Ram does with their trucks, but at the end of the day you have to do what is right for you. Some will say you have to stay 100% within the specs or "if" you ever get pulled over you will get a ticket while others play with the numbers. They are not the ones driving your truck and towing with family members, people on the road, etc.

I live in Georgia and no one has ever been able to show me where a truck towing a 5th wheel has been pulled over, weighed and cited in the SE. I am sure in other states such as CA, PA, etc. this may be the case, but I do not intend to visit those states. very soon I will be towing a 2016 Torque 321 with my F250 truck. I know I will be over the GVWR and over my payload, but will be right at my rear axle weight rating. Knowing that I basically have an F-350 except for the 2 parts and a sticker I feel comfortable towing this trailer any day of the week.

Good luck in your decision making and it sucks that it has to be so complicated.

 

[avvidclif]

I am going to give my opinion as I have a 2013 Ford F-250 and have the exact issue as you do with the difference in my actual rear axle vs. rated in relation to my payload rating.

I weighed my truck and found that I have 2800# until I hit my GAWR of 6100#, but my available payload is ony 2080#. The reason is that the GVWR on my truck is only 10000#. Now with that said I know for a fact that I have an F350 truck (except 2 parts, a 4" block vs my 2" and a slightly smaller and I mean slighter smaller rear axle), but the F350 has a GVWR of 11500#. How can a there be 1500# difference in the rating for a truck that is built with the same parts and has the same tow capacities? I think it is a "game" that the manufacturers play to cover their you know what and to also build a truck at certain GVWR for license issues such as is/was the case in CA.

I am not sure what Ram does with their trucks, but at the end of the day you have to do what is right for you. Some will say you have to stay 100% within the specs or "if" you ever get pulled over you will get a ticket while others play with the numbers. They are not the ones driving your truck and towing with family members, people on the road, etc.

I live in Georgia and no one has ever been able to show me where a truck towing a 5th wheel has been pulled over, weighed and cited in the SE. I am sure in other states such as CA, PA, etc. this may be the case, but I do not intend to visit those states. very soon I will be towing a 2016 Torque 321 with my F250 truck. I know I will be over the GVWR and over my payload, but will be right at my rear axle weight rating. Knowing that I basically have an F-350 except for the 2 parts and a sticker I feel comfortable towing this trailer any day of the week.

Good luck in your decision making and it sucks that it has to be so complicated.

You didn't say what year but all of the F250's and SRW 350's that I'm familiar with have the exact same rear end. The spacer blocks and overloads are different from what I understand.

 

[MagnoliaTom]

I do know that ford de-rates their trucks for registration purposes. In fact, the newer f350s have the lower GVWR as an option


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[roaddog28]

OK, I’m sure Everyone is sick of reading Another Weight / Towing / Capacity / Truck-Trailer post. Trust me, I’ve read Everything I could find about this subject myself. Just as you may have found, the more I read, the more confused I get. Some will say, ‘I tow without any issue’ yet based on their numbers, they are Not legally towing within the ‘correct’ limits of their TV. So I have just 1 question that ‘maybe’ a little different than most. I have not seen this question before, so I thought I would ask.

If my TV has a Base Rear Axle Weight of 2842 & a Rear GAWR of 6200, I calculate that as 6200 – 2842 = 3358lbs. Yet my Payload is only rated at 2460.
So if I was to add the Air Ride Load Lifter 5000, does that mean I now have the full 3358lbs available as cargo weight?

Of course the ‘Main’ reason I’m asking, is just like all others. I’m wondering what my TV can safely handle for a 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel & Kin Pin weight.

Here are my TV full spec’s:

2013 Ram 2500 6.7 CTD, CCLB 4x4
GVWR – 10,000
GCWR – 25,000
Base Truck – 7544 (Includes 150lbs driver & fuel)
GAWR Rear – 6200
Payload – 2460
Max Trailer Weight – 17,290
Rear Tires are rated at 3195 each.


Thanks,
Dave…

Aero Dave
Take your truck and fifth wheeler to a certified scale and weigh your truck and trailer loaded to take on a trip. You will then have a better idea if your are overloaded. For years I towed our 3210 Cyclone with a Ram 2500 4X4 TD. I was overloaded and handling was not good. Air bags only raise the height of the TV. They do little else and do not increase your payload. In my opinion most fifth wheels made today require a 3500 or bigger TW to tow the trailer safety.
Good luck
Howard

 

[Bohemian]

There are the legal limits, GVWR, GFAWR, GRAWR, and Max tow capacity. Payload is a guideline to help keep you within the previous legal limits.

Then, there is what one does to modify the truck. None of that will change any legal status unless you get the truck recertified. A complex and expensive process. It also is never obvious what the weak factor(s) really may be.

Then there is what one will do outside the legal limits and POSSIBLY outside limits of responsibility. That's one's own choice and responsibility.

 

[caissiel]

My F250 is registered in my province at 12000 lbs and that is after I had it reduced from 14000 lbs. The requirements for towing here is to neverr overload the tires. But I did find out that my F250 had same original registration as the equally build F350 duelly.

 

[Bob&Patty]

As stated earlier, no matter what you do to any TV, nothing will make it "legal" as far as the law states. Most if not all newer 350/3500's have bigger brakes, boxed frames, and more torque/HP. That is why they are rated higher in GCVW. It many never happen that you get stopped by a LEO or weighed at a scale. I do know a person that was stopped and was cited for not having the correct license for the weight of his 5'er. The thing that would worry me more is what would happen if an accident happened and you were over loaded. Some insurance companies may not pay off. What you do is a personal choice.

 

[TravelTiger]

There are some great calculators and unbiased safe towing information at www.fifthwheelst.com

I understand the desire to use what you have to tow what you want. Have had these same battles in my own head.

But I keep coming back to this: Why put your life, your families' or other lives in danger by using a vehicle for a job it was not designed to do?

We've had a couple of members in accidents recently, luckily they were not hurt. You may think it'll never happen to you, but you can't predict what "others" are going to do that will require you to make evasive moves or stop suddenly. It's those times where you want more than enough vehicle to control your trailer than not enough.



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[DW_Gray]

The correct website URL that Erika is referring to is http://fifthwheelst.com

Read these articles from that website:

A Lesson on Gross Combination Weight Rating

The Truth about Altering Vehicle Weight Certification

All manufacturers state to never exceed the GVWR and GAWR and the GCWR. In most all cases, the GVWR will be exceeded before any of the GAWRs. GVWR is primarily about braking capacity.

Other than those states that one has to declare a weight limit as part of the registration, no state has laws against towing overweight. There is one state that makes it illegal to exceed the tire ratings, (I don't remember which one).

 

[TravelTiger]

Fixed my typo.


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[Birchwood]

I am at the Max with my 16500 GVWR (Landmark) and I haul it with a 1 ton GMC with a GVWR of 11400 lbs.
If your trailer weight is 17290 you will be overloaded.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Birchwood, what year is your GMC?? My 2013 has a GVWR of 30500# (4WD) and a 5'er rating of 22500#.

 

[DW_Gray]

Birchwood, what year is your GMC?? My 2013 has a GVWR of 30500# (4WD) and a 5'er rating of 22500#.

Hey, Bob, I think you're slipping up a bit there. Do you actually mean that the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) is 30,500#?

 

[justafordguy]

The truck Manufacturers ratings have nothing to do with being "legal" in my state. The only thing that matters is what GVWR you have your truck registered for and what your tire capacity is. I believe most other states are similar but it doesn't matter to me because the only regulations I have to meet is the state I am registered in.