Fully charged dead battery?

[Georgia_Biker]

We had an unusual situation yesterday. ON Sunday we had friends over to see our New Bighorn 3601RE. Our friends are considering the purchase of a 5th wheel and we wanted to show it off. Our Big Horn was purchased in April NEW and we have been out only three times so far camping but, love it! Prior to their arrival I started the generator to run the air conditioner to cool the unit down. I also have a standard extension cord running from my home to the RV. and it was out of fuel. After about 4 hours we were enjoying the RV and the generator shut off. I checked the LP tank and it was out of fuel. I switched over to the other tank and went to restart the generator and it would not start. The battery level on the control panel indicated a fully charged battery, I also tested a few other items that indicated a low battery. The 110 volt extension cord was still connected to the RV. I then took my Dodge Ram tow truck and connected it to the RV with the electrical connection. The generator fired right off and all the electrical items were working now. It was obvious the battery did not have enough charge to start the generator and I am surprised the 110 volt house current was not enough to support basic requirements. Would appreciate any comments.

 

[scottyb]

Check the 12V reset button. Go to the tools tab at the top - Select HOM - Electrical - Basic Electrical - 12V Block Diagram & Diagnostics. It will explain where to look for it. It prevents your battery from charging if it is tripped, yet your lights and everything will work off of the converter. The generator shutting down could be from the drained battery, since it needs 12V to run. It would explain why you thought you ran out of fuel and as soon as you connected the truck to it, it ran OK.

 

[Rickhansen]

... Prior to their arrival I started the generator to run the air conditioner to cool the unit down. I also have a standard extension cord running from my home to the RV. and it was out of fuel. After about 4 hours we were enjoying the RV and the generator shut off. I checked the LP tank and it was out of fuel. I switched over to the other tank and went to restart the generator and it would not start. The battery level on the control panel indicated a fully charged battery, I also tested a few other items that indicated a low battery. The 110 volt extension cord was still connected to the RV. I then took my Dodge Ram tow truck and connected it to the RV with the electrical connection. The generator fired right off and all the electrical items were working now. It was obvious the battery did not have enough charge to start the generator and I am surprised the 110 volt house current was not enough to support basic requirements. Would appreciate any comments.

Good Morning,
I have read and re-read your post several times and am confused as to what you are saying happened, but I think I'm getting there.

First, you should not have had to switch over to your second propane tank as the systems are automatic changeover, unless the valve was closed on the second propane tank. Second comment, I would not put much faith in the indicator panel to accurately tell you the charge of your battery. These monitor panels are "indicators" only but they are not generally very accurate instruments.

Third (and down to what the problems might indicate), the convertor (which converts AC power to 12 VDC) is protected by an AC circuit breaker and several output fuses. The breaker could be off or tripped, or one or more of the fuses open (blown) preventing the battery from charging. The battery would have maintained 12VDC to the rig until it was drained. The battery is also protected by DC Circuit Breaker at the bus bar, but I suspect that is was not open, based on the fact that you had DC power (although low) in the rig.

If you are familiar with AC and DC circuits, I think you need to methodically trouble shoot these systems one at a time. I would definitely start with the convertor making sure is has power and is delivering 12V to your battery and DC system.

Please be safe and let us know what you find along the way.

 

[danemayer]

As Scotty suggested, use the 12V Block Diagram and Diagnostics to help run down the problem.

Cranking the generator takes quite a bit of DC power from the battery and you'll probably find it has a 40 or 50 Amp 12V circuit breaker at the 12V buss bar. If the battery charge is low, for whatever reason, you'll have trouble cranking the genny. Hooking up to your truck connected the truck's battery, probably through a 40 amp fuse in the truck. That provided enough amps to crank the genny.

The battery gauge in the control panel was probably misleading you because it's reading the voltage level supplied by the power converter. If the power converter were off, you'd likely see the true reading. I've seen a low gauge reading while plugged into shore power, but that was when the converter was off. When in storage, I run the generator a bit to exercise the genny and to charge up the battery. The gauge always reads 4 lights while running the genny, and for a little while afterward. The true reading is when you're running solely off the battery.

So it's very likely that manual reset 12V circuit breaker tripped - they do that occasionally. If it's not tripped, continue with the diagnostics to run down a battery or cabling problem. Even though your trailer is pretty new, don't overlook water level in the battery cells.

 

[porthole]

All of the above and add to that your new trailer may just have a junk battery.

Batteries are supplied by the dealer, not the manufacturer. Your dealer had the option to install a good, bad or marginalbattery when the trailer was prepped for sale.

 

[evolvingpowercat]

I as well have had trouble with the 60 amp circuit breaker located in the battery terminal strip tripping without warning and with no apparent reason. Personally I have re-wired so that instead of the 60 A circuit breaker I now have a 60 Amp fuse in its place and the fuse has never blown since. If you do this be sure to carry 1 or 2 spares.

 

[evolvingpowercat]

One note of the above. If you are still under warranty you may be able to get the terminal strip with the circuit breaker replaced as a like for like replacement warranty repair. You may have trouble getting them to do more than just push the reset button and getting them to believe you that it is not reliable. I was out of warranty so rather than have to order a new terminal strip with the same circuit breaker inside from Heartland for $$ I just bought a 60 amp fuse holder and several 60 amp fuses and did a DIY repair for $. Given other posts about others having the same problem with the breaker I was afraid it was a part quality problem and same problem would happen again if I replaced with the same part. Also note that some of the high end Heartlands may have a bigger circuit breaker than 60 A if they have a AC to DC converter bigger than 55 A. The size of the circuit breaker is printed in tiny print on the side of the terminal strip.

 

[Georgia_Biker]

OMG - thanks to everyone for the tips - this forum is the greatest thing! Unfortunatly I am at the Atlanta Airport and have to go to Houston for the week on business but, when I get back I will go through all of the checks recommended. One other question - I only have one battery - what are your thoughts on two - the dealer (Camping World) said it was not necessary. Many thanks

 

[navyAZ1]

Here's something else you might check? I have had a problem in the past ever since they installed the hydraulic landing gear at Lippert back in 2011, the connection for the main power to the hydraulic pump kept getting loose, once this happened it caused some sort of short activity that would then cause that "resettable" breaker to trip. I just happened to stumble on to this, so I tightened the connection, reset the breaker and all was well after the battery recharged. However, this happened yet again! Being tired of this connection coming loose (I guess from vibration) I tightened it yet again, but this time I used a small amount of Lock Tite (blue). So far so good haven't had the problem again since. Now, question for you "Georgia biker" have you joined the GA chapter of the Owners Club, if not you should and hope to see you at our rally on Labor Day up in Dillard. We're not real far from you we live in Jefferson, GA. Good luck with your issues.

 

[scottyb]

OMG - thanks to everyone for the tips - this forum is the greatest thing! Unfortunatly I am at the Atlanta Airport and have to go to Houston for the week on business but, when I get back I will go through all of the checks recommended. One other question - I only have one battery - what are your thoughts on two - the dealer (Camping World) said it was not necessary. Many thanks

Depends on what type of camping you will be doing. If you plan to be off the grid and use battery power for more than a day or two, you will need (want) more. Since you have a generator, you can easily re-charge the batteries. If you want to add an inverter to run a few things like TV's, fans, or other electronics, you will need more battery storage. It all depends on your uses. I would definitely make sure that I had a high quality battery for starters. I am going from 2 to 4 6v golf cart batteries before my next outing, but that's because I like to park in areas w/o hookups and where generators are not allowed.

 

[Rickhansen]

As you've figured out by now, these rigs can be pretty power hungry. I agree, much has to do with your intended use, but remember that nothing much works without 12 VDC. No lights, no refrigerator, no furnace, no hot water, no landing gear or slides, etc.

Being full-time, we are always plugged in, but in the past 6 years there have been more than a few power bumps ranging from an hour or so to a couple days. With normal usage (for us) one 12V battery can be sucked dry pretty quickly. I know you have a generator so that would be a big relief; but if you can't start it, it ain't worth spit.

Another battery is pretty cheap insurance. Maybe you could wire it in via a selector switch so you always had power to crank the genset?

 

[Georgia_Biker]

Rick- I did some research this weekend and I definitly have a DEAD BATTERY that will not accept a charge. I am going to replace it with two Marine batteries wired parallel. What is your opinion on this approach?

 

[Georgia_Biker]

Thanks for the mention of the Georgia Chapter of the Owners Group - we haven't joined the Owners Group yet but, plan to. We have "biker" friends in Jefferson. Found out I have a dead battery that won't recharge - bought our Big Horn in April - I guess the dealer put in a crap battery - oh well

 

[Randy]

Thanks for the mention of the Georgia Chapter of the Owners Group - we haven't joined the Owners Group yet but, plan to. We have "biker" friends in Jefferson. Found out I have a dead battery that won't recharge - bought our Big Horn in April - I guess the dealer put in a crap battery - oh well

Larry & Sharon, Welcome to the forum. Santha and I are having the 2013 Georgia chapter rally Labor day weekend in Dillard. You can sign up for the owners club at the rally.
I think the two marine batteries are a real good idea. Hope to meet you two in the near future. Randy, Santha and the Poodles

 

[jasons09cyclone]

I would go with two 6 volt battery's wired in series.. A lot more reserve power with 6 volts..


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[scottyb]

Rick- I did some research this weekend and I definitly have a DEAD BATTERY that will not accept a charge. I am going to replace it with two Marine batteries wired parallel. What is your opinion on this approach?

If you are going to be buying two new batteries, take a look at 2 6V GC-2 golf cart batteries. They are true deep cycle and more durable and will give you more Ah than 2 12V marine cranking/deep cycle batteries, for about the same price. You only need one jumper wire for the series.

 

[Rickhansen]

Georgia_Biker,
Many of us have that arrangement, including me. Mine are Optima (blue tops) deep-cycle marine batteries, the biggest I could fit in my existing battery trays/boxes; group 27 I think. I like them because they are glass mat, maintenance free, and are known to stand up well (and I got them really cheap via an employee discount).

A lot of folks go with the 2) 6-volt deep cycle golf cart batteries in series. Unless you plan to do some switching as I mentioned in my earlier post, I personally think the 2) 6-volts in series is probably the most robust arrangement (in the electrical engineering sense), but you'll likely have some issues to work around as they are different physical sizes and are generally heavier (might be a concern) than 2) common automotive grade 12-volts in parallel. With two 12's, you also can isolate to one battery if needed, use in other applications (your truck?) if you needed, and replacements are available anywhere.

To me, the two 12's are robust and reliable enough, more than adequate and somehow just more conventional. I would make sure they very good quality batteries, both exactly the same, and generally speaking they should be replaced as a pair. This is because if one battery should begin to fail, it becomes a load on the other battery.

My batteries are about 4 years old, never had any maintenance, and recently ran my fantastic fan, refrigerator, hot water (via propane), lights, and the other 'parasitic' loads for about 18 hours and still showed full-charge on the monitor. I know that's nothing to write home about, but it worked out well for me. I'm not sure one battery would have done that, especially if I was running the furnace.

Just my opinion, and thanks for asking.

 

[jmgratz]

On other thing to consider is the 'water' level in the battery. The converter charges the battery constantly and has a tendency to 'boil' the water out of the battery. So check it periodically.