GFCI circuit not working in kitchen, dish washer and refridgerator

[Curt_Hinson]

Sorry, I initially posted this in blog. I have a 2014 Landmark Sequoia. Under the top cabinets, I have two 110V outlets. I believe the problem started when my wife, many moons ago, plugged the coffee pot and toaster into the outlet nearest the window. The outlet on the right (first outlet from the circuit breaker) turned out to be a GFCI outlet that popped, but I could not reset it. I checked the circuit breaker and found out that it is a 15A breaker and was good. To make matters worse, I discovered that this line supplied the dishwasher and refridgerator. I don't need the dishwasher, but if you don't lock the door electrically, it slides out and hangs out while traveling down the road. I thought that it may be a bad GFCI, so I replaced it (yes I know that it only goes one way). It still did not work. I have delivered the camper three times to an RV repair shop. Each time they said it worked. It didn't. I purchased the three yellow light circuit tester an it wouldn't come on. I took the GFCI and the other plug down and discovered that both were GFCI and the main GFCI was wired backward. I rewired the first GFCI correctly and installed a regular outlet in the other. The tester would now come on, but would go out after varying minutes of operation (GFCI pops). It actually stayed on several hours a couple of times. I made up a short cable with a GFCI outlet in line and placed it inside the space in back of the refridgerator and use an extension cord to run the refridgerator while parked. I do not know if anything else is using power from that line and I haven't tried to remove the dishwasher so that I can check the plug. I do not like those electrical outlets they put in RV's but I suspect that the wires in the outlet to the dish washer/refer got burned. I am thinking that this circuit should have been at least a 20A. Any suggestion?

 

[212Pilot]

In our cyclone I have found several GFCI outlets on the same circuit. If my wife uses her hair dryer while something is on in the kitchen it pops the bathroom GFCI and takes out the three outlets in the kitchen. I would check other GFCI outlets to see if one has tripped and is connected to your kitchen.

 

[jbeletti]

Curt,

The dishwasher and residential refrigerator generally have their own AC branch circuits and breakers and should not be part of the GFCI circuit you're working on.

 

[Curt_Hinson]

Jim, it may well be that everyone but mine is wired as you say, but I can tell you that if I get the GFCI working under the counter, I can start the dishwasher and get the refridgerator to run on electric. If I have the refer set on automatic, it will automatically come on but if that circuit fails either at the GFCI of the circuit breaker in the box, it will not come on nor can I get on. It will always revert to gas. Not being mean mouth, but I could probably wright in one paragraph what hasn't gone wrong with this rig. It would take me a book to go the other way. I will take pictures if necessary.

 

[Roller4tan]

Okay, you don't have a residential fridge. If the fridge is in a slide, look under the slide for where wires come thru the floor. Check the insulation on the wires for cuts or bare wire. Follow those wires to a junction box mounted to the outside of the frame. After disconnecting shore power, open that junction box and check the wire nuts for tightness.

 

[Curt_Hinson]

Roller4tan, non of that applies to my situation. I remove the outside breathing cover of the refer where all of the gas and electrical components are, reach in with my right hand going back about 12 inches and unplug the refer. I plug it in to the short extension (GFCI plug in a box with about 6" of cord). I have no idea exactly where the plug is for the dishwasher. I thought I could get to it by removing all of the drawers, but could not. It will require the removal of the dishwasher which I am not ready to do. It appears like it will be another trip to the repair shop. It is eating up all of the money I planed to use for entertainment (someplace).

 

[danemayer]

Hi Curt,

I'm not sure I completely understand what the failure scenario is, but I did notice that one complaint is about the refrigerator doors.

if you don't lock the door electrically, it slides out and hangs out while traveling down the road.

A gas absorption refrigerator doesn't use 120V AC when towing, but rather depends on 12V DC. The door lock has to operate on 12V DC. Otherwise, when towing, it would never operate because you don't have 120V AC available.

So if the refrigerator electrical door lock is one of your problems, the GFCI is not related to that problem and what your wife plugged in to the outlet is also not related.

If you're losing power from an outlet that's on a circuit with the dishwasher, and that circuit is GFCI protected, the dishwasher is the first place to look. When outlets protected by GFCI get wet, the GFCI trips. So any water leaking near that outlet would be an obvious failure point.

 

[Curt_Hinson]

Hi Dan. I am sorry that I am not making myself clear on this. I will take pictures tomorrow.

1. The GFCI is the first in line from the circuit breaker at the bottom of the cabinet and is located above the kitchen sink and under the overhead cabinet.

2. To clarify one point. The refridgerator simply will not run when the GFCI pops.

3. When there is no current in that circuit, the dishwasher will not run which prevents the door from being electrically locked. The door will open and allow the racks to slide out while going down the road.

Oh, the heck with it. I can't type or this keyboard can't spell or the program has trouble accepting input. It needs to be able to accept cut and past from a word processor or a notepad. It has taken me 30 minutes to type this. Good night.

 

[danemayer]

Hi Dan. I am sorry that I am not making myself clear on this. I will take pictures tomorrow.

1. The GFCI is the first in line from the circuit breaker at the bottom of the cabinet and is located above the kitchen sink and under the overhead cabinet.

2. To clarify one point. The refridgerator simply will not run when the GFCI pops.

3. When there is no current in that circuit, the dishwasher will not run which prevents the door from being electrically locked. The door will open and allow the racks to slide out while going down the road.

Pictures would help.

There's a lot here that is confusing to me. I'm looking at what's supposed to be a 2014 Sequoia floor plan that shows the kitchen in a center island. There aren't usually cabinets over the islands, but maybe you have that.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the "first in line from the circuit breaker at the bottom of the cabinet". Do you mean there are 2 duplex outlets on the underside of the cabinet and the front outlet is GFCI? If so, I'm curious about the physical location of the dishwasher and refrigerator relative to that GFCI outlet.

If the refrigerator is in AUTO mode, when the GFCI pops, it should run on propane.

Can you take a good picture of your main circuit breaker panel including the labels that show what each breaker controls.

 

[Curt_Hinson]

Dan, you need pictures. My wife stated that there was a dent in the floor in the kitchen area and that she believes that there was an island, but one does not exist in my RV nor does any floor plan I have seen show one.

 

[wdk450]

Hi Dan. I am sorry that I am not making myself clear on this. I will take pictures tomorrow.

1. The GFCI is the first in line from the circuit breaker at the bottom of the cabinet and is located above the kitchen sink and under the overhead cabinet.

2. To clarify one point. The refridgerator simply will not run when the GFCI pops.

3. When there is no current in that circuit, the dishwasher will not run which prevents the door from being electrically locked. The door will open and allow the racks to slide out while going down the road.

Oh, the heck with it. I can't type or this keyboard can't spell or the program has trouble accepting input. It needs to be able to accept cut and past from a word processor or a notepad. It has taken me 30 minutes to type this. Good night.

User hostile software

 

[danemayer]

Dan, you need pictures. My wife stated that there was a dent in the floor in the kitchen area and that she believes that there was an island, but one does not exist in my RV nor does any floor plan I have seen show one.

Curt, I saw another floor plan that shows the kitchen sink on the front wall that's shared with the bathroom.

Was the dishwasher a factory install? I'm not clear on when Heartland started offering a dishwasher option, but I thought it was later. Also wondering where the dishwasher is located.

 

[Curt_Hinson]

Dan, I can't get my pictures uploaded, but the two links below show my layout. The youtube video is for a 2013, but it is basically the same unit. I requested and received a build sheet for my unit from Landmark. Is it the right one, I don't know. If you want to take a look at it, I will send it as soon as I figure out how to do it. The dishwasher was a factory install and is located underneath the stove. Looking at the wall you referenced (sink), the circuit breakers are located at the bottom right (next to steps) that has two 15A circuit breakers that cuts off the power to both plugs underneath the overhead cabinet (sink area) as well as the dishwasher and refridgerator. Only one of them is wired, but both have been used and replaced with new ones.

Moving up to the underside of the overhead cabinet (directly over the sinks), is the GFCI plug. To the left of that plug (closer to the window) is the second outlet. Both of these plugs have been changed out several times.

The dishwasher is directly under the stove and the refridgerator is where it is (to my knowledge it doesn't slide out). I took pictures outside showing where the refer is plugged in but am unable to upload them right now. When you remove the outside door, you have to use a flashlight and put your right ear up against the wiring and plumbing for the refer to be able to see the plug, which would be installed in the partition that separates the refer and the canned goods and pots and pans storage area. This is a cabinet between the stove/dishwasher and refer.

If you open the hinged (L-shaped) door in the very corner of the entire counter area you will see a lazy-susan (what a waste of space) and in back of that against the back wall is some electric cable. I assume that those cables feed the dishwasher and refridgerator, but can't tell for sure.

I can tell you for sure that the refridgerator, dishwasher and the two outlets under the front cabinet are on the same line. I do not know if anything else is also on that line. This morning, at approximately 9:30, I was successful in getting the GFCI reset after about seven tries. It was still working at approximately 3:00 PM. I have seen it stay on longer than that, but it always pops the GFCI, never the circuit breaker.

When the GFCI is not working and I put the refridgerator in EL mode, it will not come on. It has to be in gas mode or auto mode, which will fire off the gas mode. This morning after I got the GFCI working, I put the refridgerator in Auto mode and EL showed up as the method used to operate. If the GFCI pops, it will automatically revert to gas.

I am sure that I have you totally confused by now, so I will stop and go to town for something to eat.

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2014-heartland-rv-landmark-fifth-wheel-floorplan-lm-sequoia-tr16062

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FuQ_Sq9rKY

 

[danemayer]

Curt,

GFCI outlets are designed to trip when there's a mismatch between the power supplied to an appliance on the hot wire, and the power coming back on the neutral. As you've replaced the GFCI outlets, we should discount the possibility that the GFCI circuit has a malfunction, and we should assume there's electrical leakage somewhere causing the GFCI to trip.

The most likely cause is moisture around the outlets serving refrigerator or dishwasher.

One likely trouble spot is the outlet at the back of the refrigerator. That's because 1) there's usually a condensate drain that's supposed to exit outside, but sometimes leaks, and 2) there are louvers that allow water to get in behind the refrigerator in a heavy rain. You should look for the condensate drain hose and make sure it's not leaking, and evaluate whether there's any indication of moisture at the back of the fridge. You can probably dry out the area with a clip on fan, clipped to the outside wall with the louvered cover removed. If drying it out resolves the problem, at least temporarily, you're in the right area.

The other likely trouble spot is the dishwasher. Unfortunately, you may have to pull the dishwasher to evaluate. Alternatively, if you can find a junction box between the GFCI and the dishwasher, perhaps you can temporarily interrupt power to the dishwasher to see if that resolves the problem temporarily. If the water feed line, drain line, or the dishwasher cabinet has a leak, you might have enough moisture near the outlet to cause a problem.

 

[Curt_Hinson]

Dan, water leaking behind the dishwasher could be a problem but no running water or wetness has been sighted where we can see. I will say that I don't think the dishwasher has been operated more that two times since I have owned the unit.

I have had this problem for some time now so we have had to learn how to work around it. As an example, the camper sat under the shelter for five months. I always fire up the main TV and let it play for a day to keep Dish active, otherwise you have to call for reactivation, etc. The refridgerator did not even run during that time, but I wish it had because when we opened the refer about two weeks ago, it was full of really small gnats or flies. They had deposited egg sacs in every possible place they could get into. The wife and I worked the better part of two days cleaning that garbage out by washing and vaccuming. When I put everything back together again, I made sure that the drainage tray was firmly attached to the little tube and plugged the refer into my homemade GFCI. If I missed one of those little buggers, he will be frozen stiff. I constantly checked the refer both front and rear and nowhere did I see anything like moisture or anything out of the way.

I am going to take the camper back to the RV repair shop and insist that they pull the dishwasher out (can't do it by myself). I want the electrical outlets for the dishwasher and refer to be totally checked. I had trouble with those RV outlets in a Cedar Creek I owned, and I believe that is my problem since everything else has been supposedly fixed. I am thinking that when the coffee pot and toaster were operated at the same time on that circuit, and the refer probably kicked in, the contacts got burnt in one of the outlets.

We gonna call it quits on this one, at least until it is checked out again. Sorry I wasn't much help in describing the situation, but I do thank you very much for your input.

 

[wdk450]

Just as a FYI for everyone reading this, when putting your RV into storage, if the refrigerator is not being used, you should prop the doors of the refrigerator partially open to help dry it further, and prevent mold, odors, and flies. I used to roll up a dishtowel, stuff it in the door jambs, close the doors on the towel, and then tie off the doors with bungee cords to vent the refig interior in storage.