Gray Water #2 Replacement

[TXBobcat]

Well yesterday I had AAA RV Pro, Steven Mullet, come by and replace the gate valve for the #2 Gray Water (Kitchen).

We weren't sure where to open the underbelly to replace it. I remember seeing the Gray Water conduit when I had the Mor/Ryde IS & DB system installed. That will be the first couple of photos. It runs from the back behind the tires along the frame up to the discharge conduit, so Steve cut the underbelly in the area of the discharge conduit and found the GW#2 Gate valve.

There is really not a lot to show. HL did not put the GW#2 gate valve on the tank but they did put it as part of the large discharge conduit that exits from under the trailer. This helped and hindered, but it was doable. The valve was cemented to discharge conduit and we had to cut the smaller conduit to remove the GW#2 gate valve. We did not have to bother the main discharge conduit. One thing I did see was the black water gate valve is in the same place and on the other side of the discharge conduit.

Once the GW conduit was cut Steve removed the bolts holding the gate valve together, but left one side of the gate that was glued to the discharge conduit. Steve took the opposite side of the old valve which had a section of the conduit still glued to it and removed about an inch. Steve took a rubber coupling with worm clamps (from Lowe's) and put it on the small conduit going to the rear, then inserted the conduit with the part from the old gate valve into the other end. Slid the new gate valve between the two parts, put in the bolts back in and tightened the new gate. Then Steve tightened the worm clamps on the coupling. Before Steve put the new gate in he showed me a can of heavy duty silicone lube which he used on the new gate valve.

We (Yea.. I was in there helping) put a nylon rope onto the old cable and pulled it back up to the UDC then used the rope to pull the new cable back down into the underbelly. The cable is held on with a hex screw. We had to cut off about an inch to get it to adjust properly. When Steve adjusted the cable, he left the handle in the UDC out just about 3/8 in, which looks like the other handles. The last photo shows the gate valve taken apart.

When we finished, Steve used some black tape to tape up the underbelly cover. It was not Duct Tape. It sticks very well and he said he ordered it from the Pilgrim Mfgr plant. It was about $100 per roll.

The job looks good and worked well. I am posting as many pictures as I can. It is difficult to take pictures because of close quarters and there really is not a lot to photograph, but this is what I have.

I will try to answer any questions as I can. If anyone is in the area of Melissa or McKinney Texas and need help I would definitely recommend Steve. Phone is 972-924-2218 & Cell 214-704-0392.

BC

 

[caissiel]

Well done, and now we know
Thanks for all your information.

 

[htneighbors]

Bob,

Thanks for posting. I'm not sure why you had to replace your valve or whether or not your tank was full during this process - but by what I can tell, this experience makes you the resident expert on gate valves! Therefore, I'm looking to you for some answers! I've attached a couple of photos of my #1 Black Tank, 3" valve - as well as your breakdown of the valves, which I numbered some pieces #1 thru 4. You'll need to refer to them to follow my questions.

In my photos, the valve should me open in one and closed in the other. It is not opening, so I am assuming the stem (#1) has separated from the gate (#2). What holds the stem into the gate? I went by an RV dealer in Lincoln, NE today, and a man told me the stem is basically just "pressed" into the gate. I checked a (1-1/2", they had no 3") valve on their shelf and the stem would rotate freely when I turned it - I was thinking it was threaded in, but it wasn't. It would spin but would operate the gate.

There is a coupling of some sort that attaches to the end of the stem (#3), which has a set screw for the cable to attach. How does the coupling attach to the stem (#3)? Is this just threaded on?

Is it possible to remove the screws from the side of the valve (#4) so I can remove the stem (#1) - in order to epoxy the stem back in to the gate (#2)? Or even run a long skinny deck screw or something in to the gate to grab it and open it? Keep in mind the tank is full! I'm trying to keep as clean as possible during this project. Dynamite has already been suggested!

Thanks!

 

[TXBobcat]

Bob,
Thanks for posting. I'm not sure why you had to replace your valve or whether or not your tank was full during this process - but by what I can tell, this experience makes you the resident expert on gate valves!
HT.. Thanks for the flowers but I am not an expert. An expert is a drip under pressure. I had to change my valve out because it got so hard to open and close that it pulled the sleeve away from the part that is bolted into the UDC. Had to put all thread and two worm clamps to hold it so I could open and close the valve. You can see that in a photo in my OP. However the valve would not close all the way leaving me with a constant amout of water leaking.


Therefore, I'm looking to you for some answers! I've attached a couple of photos of my #1 Black Tank, 3" valve - as well as your breakdown of the valves, which I numbered some pieces #1 thru 4. You'll need to refer to them to follow my questions.
Sorry about your Black tank valve. I think your going to have a Sh***y problem on your hands.


In my photos, the valve should me open in one and closed in the other. It is not opening, so I am assuming the stem (#1) has separated from the gate (#2). Yep I think that is the problem..

What holds the stem into the gate? I went by an RV dealer in Lincoln, NE today, and a man told me the stem is basically just "pressed" into the gate. I checked a (1-1/2", they had no 3") valve on their shelf and the stem would rotate freely when I turned it - I was thinking it was threaded in, but it wasn't. It would spin but would operate the gate.
I agree. The stem will rotate but not screw out. I don't know what holds the stem to the valve. I will take the old valve and cut the body open to see what is holding stem to the valve and take a picture for you.


There is a coupling of some sort that attaches to the end of the stem (#3), which has a set screw for the cable to attach. How does the coupling attach to the stem (#3)? Is this just threaded on? Yes the cap on top of the shaft is screwed on. The cap has a hex screw in it that holds the wire onto the cap. See the close up of the end of the shaft. The outer cable is held by the upper body part of the valve body. Shown by the two black arrows.


Is it possible to remove the screws from the side of the valve (#4) so I can remove the stem (#1) - in order to epoxy the stem back in to the gate (#2)? Or even run a long skinny deck screw or something in to the gate to grab it and open it? I don't see any way to do that. The connection of the shaft to the gate is inside the square area and has no seams.

Keep in mind the tank is full! I'm trying to keep as clean as possible during this project. Dynamite has already been suggested! Again it looks like this is going to turn into a Shi**Y job for you.

Thanks!

I will see if I can get a photo posted for you sometime tomorrow afternoon on how the shaft is connected to the gate.

One thing I saw is, that if you have to remove the 3" Sewer gate valve it will be much harder. There is hardly any room to work on the conduit compared to the 1.5" Gray.

I use a screen in my kitchen sink to trap as much debris as possible however my gate valve was very stickey and hard to move.

I don't normally leave the gray gate valves open all the time when we stay some where. It looks like a lot of fine debris has collected on the gate and in the seat for the gate. How many of you leave your gray water gates open while staying at a campground?

BC

 

[trdeal]

Bob,you ask the question,how many of us leave our gray tanks open.We do.We have been camping for 25 years and have always left my gray tanks open when I am camping.I do hold a tank to clean out my sewer hose before we break camp.I have never had any problems that I am aware of by doing this.

 

[cookie]

The RV park that we are now at had a informational meeting the other day for all residents. One subject that was brought up was leaving the grey water tanks open. It seems that on windy days the gasses from the sewer system gets syphoned out of your vent, and odor carries to your neighbor. So although it is convenient to leave your tank open, it may not be the best thing to do. Unless you don't like your neighbors. Don't know if that's true, but it makes sense to me. Just a thought. I never leave my valves open.

Oh, and one more thing. Bobcat, I did have to remove my black valve. I did it the same way your guy removed your grey. I cut about an inch out of the grey water pipe, unscrewed the black water valve and was able to pull the thing apart that one inch I removed. I also used the rubber coupling to put it back together. So if your black valve ever needs replacing, your half way there. It was not a total nightmare.

Peace
Dave

 

[caissiel]

I would believe that the sewer smell would be much more then the bit of smell from the graywater tank. If people get it in their trailer it would be comming from the sewer unless the grey water trapes and vent did not work properly.

Ho, now I get it, the sewer smell is transmitted through the vent on trailers that is opened direct to the sewer system. It does make sence to me now.

Now i must disregard the 1st comment.

 

[newbie]

That seems a little dubious to me. All homes have vents that lead directly to the sewer and you never hear of this problem. And you can't close your house sewer line on windy days

 

[caissiel]

Now park 20 ft appart and pack it in a small field, it might just be enough to smell, some of the free areas in a park are no bigger then a living room.

In all my Camping, it has not been a problem but I always tought of the big line being open never the small ones.

 

[kakampers]

That seems a little dubious to me. All homes have vents that lead directly to the sewer and you never hear of this problem. And you can't close your house sewer line on windy days

EXACTLY!!!.....have always left greys open...never an issue!

 

[JohnDar]

Ever been working on a roof near the soil pipe? With the trailer vents, they vent the tank, not the sink drains, so the water in the P-trap is not in play. Air flowing over the vent is aspirating from the sewer via the dump hose and through the tank.

 

[TXBobcat]

In my photos, the valve should me open in one and closed in the other. It is not opening, so I am assuming the stem (#1) has separated from the gate (#2). What holds the stem into the gate? I went by an RV dealer in Lincoln, NE today, and a man told me the stem is basically just "pressed" into the gate. I checked a (1-1/2", they had no 3") valve on their shelf and the stem would rotate freely when I turned it - I was thinking it was threaded in, but it wasn't. It would spin but would operate the gate.

Is it possible to remove the screws from the side of the valve (#4) so I can remove the stem (#1) - in order to epoxy the stem back in to the gate (#2)? Or even run a long skinny deck screw or something in to the gate to grab it and open it? Keep in mind the tank is full! I'm trying to keep as clean as possible during this project. Dynamite has already been suggested!

OK HT.. I think I may have a solution for you..
In the photos below you should be able to see what the gate valve looks like and how it is attached to the rod. The dealer was basically correct. It is pressed into a slot in the top part of the gate valve. Apparently yours came loose.

I cut the body of the gate apart to see how it is attached to the rod. The first photo shows the grove, which is on one side and the rod in the upper part of the gate. The next is a close up of this.

The next is just showing the gate and its main housing. If you look at it you may be able to put a long screw down into the top of the gate body and pull it out. I would cut the housing about a half inch higher away from the gate so you can get a good hold on the gate.

The next photo is the gate with the housing covering the upper part.

The next photo is showing the gate body and how the housing fits on the gate. The bottom two holes on the gate is what holds the conduit fitting onto the gate. Don't remove them. Leave them tight to reduce or stop leaking while working on the gate. I think you can remove these two housings and the gate still be closed. You may have some leakage but it would be limited.

Pulling the cable leaver out all the way should give you enough room to cut the housing of the gate and miss the rod, then taking a course thin threaded screw and running it down into the gate you can probably pull it out. You might even put two of the bolts to the gate valve back into the body to hold the conduit to the gate. I think you can remove all the upper parts to get to the gate. Just don't loosen or remove the two lower bolts that hold the bottom to the conduit fittings.

I don't know how you will cut the body. Maybe heat a rod hot and melt the body but you have to be careful of the surrounding tanks and hoses. I used a hack saw but I had the gate on a picnic table.

Hope this helps you. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

If you have more questions let me know. You can email me or Phone me if you wish for faster information, however I would like to keep the all the information about this on the forum.

I may start a new thread called The Anatomy of a Gate Valve.

It would be so cool to have threads like this stored in a logical area so we can look them up and refer to them and not have to go back and hunt them up when needed.

Hope this helps and good luck.

BC

 

[htneighbors]

Many thanks, Bob! My wife said I need to send you flowers!

I'll have to mess with it when I return to the Cyclone. Pun intended! We are on our way to Pennington County, SD to spend a night in order to get our voter's registration. There is a white-out of a snow-blowing storm on I-90 in SD, so we stopped at a motel for a night. Hopefully, we can continue travel tomorrow. The Cyclone is still parked in Randolph, NE, where we have been since June.

I'm not really looking forward to working on that thing in freezing temps, even though it is skirted around the Cyclone. I'm finished on this project up here, so it's time to go see friends & family in OK & TX! Wonder if I could make it to OK with a full black tank? I may have to call the Port-a-potty guy and have him suck it out from the toilet? Praise the Lord for a 2nd bath and black tank! And for forum friends!

I'll keep posted what I end up doing - whenever that may be. Thanks again for the photos - they explained exactly what I was wanting to know!

 

[2010augusta]

Well my though on staying clean and getting the valve open would be to do what BC did, but with the valve still in place.

I would use a hack saw or other small hand saw to cut the case around the valve ( about where the red line is), then use a pair of pliers to pull the valve open.

It might be tedious in a small area, and you will have to trash the entire unit, but at least it will keep you clean.

 

[Rmcgrath53]

I think if it was mine I would drill a couple 1/4 inch holes on the outside of the sleave (where you can get to the inner valve plate) ,just deep enough to penetrate to the inner valve plate. then take an awl or small head screw driver or chisel and pry that baby open. Then if you can repair the cable to the inner valve plate you wouldnt wreck the whole assembly and refasten the cable to the inner valve plate. You should be good to go with no mess.

 

[SmokeyBare]

Yes, I agree to trying to one way or another get the valve gate open. For sure take the cable off the valve shaft as TxBobCat said, by losening the Hex (Allen Screw) set screw. Once thats lose and away from being damaged, the valve body steel shaft could be cut away since it's no longer attached to the valve it self. Now there's a guide to run a long threaded rod or some long type screw through. Might get lucky putting a pair of vise grips on and tap - tap - tap it open. Sure would be nice not needing to call in the porta-john pump service.

Good Luck !

 

[TXBobcat]

If I am correct you will not have to cut the valve shaft. Pull it all the way up and it will give you enough room to cut the body with out hitting the shaft. If you cut about the location of the red line might work. Otherwiise I would think about removing the outer cover before cuttiing the gate body. I don't think you need to remove the cap that the wire is connected too.

It might be possible to cut through all of the gate body of the and the valve body but this plastic is not easy to cut and it is in a very difficult place to work on. The Black water valve is quite a bit larger than the gray water I worked on.

I guess we will know when HT opens it up. A lot will depend on where the 3" Gate valve is located.

BC

 

[caissiel]

Just be carefull the gate don't fly open and fall out, you will be left with a crack full of mess, I don't want to be in the way. Yak

 

[TXBobcat]

I second that !!! didn't think of the gate coming out all the way. Would be a mess to say the least..

 

[Rmcgrath53]

Bob what was wrong with your valve that you had to replace. Was it frozen and when you opened it with the handle you pulled the shaft out? Second thought I think you said on another post yours was leaking. Does that mean you have to exersize the valve more? You full time so you probably leave the gray open and crud hardens on the valve so when you push it in the crud nicks the rubber and looses the seal. Is that what your thinking? I think coffe grounds and egg shells are probably the biggest culprit for a bad valve it is like sand blasting the seals IMOP.
Ron