Great ending to Diesel Exhaust Fluid problem

danemayer

Well-known member
This story just has too good an ending to not share.

On the way to the Goshen Rally, our 2011 GMC 3500 started throwing a Check Engine Light. I pressed the OnStar button to run remote diagnostics and they explained it was a "Reductant Tank Temperature Sensor error" ( error code p205) and that I could have it fixed at my convenience - end of summer would be fine.

Just to make sure there was nothing else hiding behind the check engine light, I used OnStar to run remote diagnostics before starting out every day.

On the way from Goshen to Breckenridge, CO, while filling up on diesel, I filled the Diesel Exhaust Fluid tank at a Flying J ($2.69/gal), putting in 3.1 gallons. A few miles down the road I got a DEF Range 900 miles warning. If you ignore the warning, around 100 miles, speed gets limited to 55mph. When you're out, speed gets limited to 4mph. I figured since it was a bit under 800 miles to Breckenridge, I'd get it taken care of there.

Wrong! Less than an hour later I got another message. DEF Range 242 miles. This one meant that the messages were erratic and we could get stranded on some lonely stretch of road in western Nebraska. I called OnStar and they transferred me to GM Customer Service. Since we were coming into Lincoln, NE, they arranged for the dealer there to look at the truck first thing in the morning.

Husker GMC in Lincoln thought that forcing a particulate burn might clear it up. They did that and also reset the ECM to clear the error codes. They covered it under the emissions warranty, but told me that they really were supposed to bill me. That delayed our departure by 2 hours, but we got to NE Colorado that evening and made it to Breckenridge the following day. Just as we were pulling in to Tiger Run Resort, a new Diesel Range 900 message popped up. And the next day the Check Engine light reappeared.

I made an appointment with Hudson GMC in nearby Silverthorne. In the meantime, GM Customer Service called back to follow up. The GMC dealer did another diagnosis and ordered a Reductant Tank, which is the only way to replace the bad sensor. They told me it was backordered nationally, so they didn't have a projected date when it would arrive.

GM called back that afternoon and I shared what the dealer had told me. I didn't ask her to but the customer service rep said she was going to escalate the situation to higher management.

They called back the next day and said the part should arrive at the dealership by Monday or Tuesday. Sure enough, on Tuesday, the dealer called and we set up an appointment for this morning. I showed up at 8 and had the truck back at 10:30.

Because of what I'd read on the Duramax Diesel Forum that some people are being charged $1000 for this repair, which it turns out is fairly common, I had read up on the emissions warranty coverage and was ready for a discussion. But as it turned out, everything was covered under warranty.

Now I call that a pretty good outcome. The truck ran fine the whole time. We just had to deal with some pesky error messages, and GMC covered all the diagnostics and repair work at 46,000 miles. But as it turns out, that's not the end of the story.

The GM Regional Rep to whom the incident had been escalated called a few minutes ago to apologize for the inconvenience, and to offer me a $100 service coupon good at any GM dealer.

That put the whole thing into the "pretty special" category for me.

Thank you GMC.
 

dewwood

Well-known member
You can't always be trouble free but when someone steps up like that it is the next best thing. One thing I have noticed is that the DEF level goes down much more rapidly when towing, I almost ran out the first time it came on because the mileage was going down about twice as fast as normal. Fortunately I found some DEF and was able to complete my journey.
 

krhyde

Kentucky Chapter Leaders-retired
I am a Ford man but stories like that make me pause. Great that GMC stood behind you. Nice meeting you in Goshen and I look forward to seeing you again in the future. Ken
 

jbeletti

Well-known member
Dan,

Thanks for sharing and congrats on a great outcome.

What was the part that was the culprit?

I have a Check Engine light and the code it's throwing is Reductant B Heater. I guess that is DEF system related. Ford has not been able to find anything wrong. Unplug and replug some connectors, reset the code and go. Light stays off for a while but then it comes back.

I have had no ill-effects but am worried now that I can't trust the Check Engine light system if the light stays on all the time. Time to schedule an appt. with a larger Ford diesel shop I guess.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Jim,

The temperature sensor on the reductant tank was malfunctioning. The sensor can't be replaced separately from the tank.

From the parts diagram they showed me, the reductant tank is above the tank that holds the DEF fluid. Reductant is apparently a generic term for the UREA (and in other applications other compounds) that reduce Nitrous Oxide emissions by injecting the fluid into the exhaust stream. I think there is a heater involved along with a temperature sensor so that the vehicle can work properly in below-freezing temps. I'm not positive, but I think the GMC part called the Reductant Tank may actually be the pump that draws fluid from the holding tank and supplies it to the exhaust stream.

I know from our past experience in Colorado winter weather that the DEF tank can stay frozen for an extended period. When the high temp is < 10 degrees for a couple of weeks, driving 5-10 miles isn't likely to thaw the DEF, which is mostly water. In that kind of weather, I suspect the temp sensor signals the ECM to turn on the heater, but if the temp is still too low, it probably tells the system to ignore the DEF rules regarding bad or low fluid level. Our first year, I think we went several thousand miles without using any DEF.

They told me that a malfunctioning temp sensor can confuse the Electronic Control Module, resulting in all kinds of problems. That sounds to me like the ECM isn't programmed to deal appropriately with out-of-range data from the sensor. So I wouldn't be surprised if at some point there's a firmware update to prevent the secondary problem I was having.

I was also worried about the reductant tank check engine light masking a more serious condition. But the possibility of the ECM throwing an out-of-DEF signal, limiting the engine to 4mph was what really concerned me. Yes, it's easy to reset the code without fixing the problem. But the solution seems to be to replace the part that's generating the error.

Btw, I've ordered this code reader. Being able to see what codes are behind that check engine light seems like a good idea. And I suspect if the system threw an erroneous error that stranded me, I would be able to clear the error and get going again - at least until another erroneous error occurred.

I guess the upside of the DEF story is cleaner air and no soot on the trailer.

On edit, I should mention that I really don't know much about these systems and there's a pretty good chance I don't have it all right.
 

Lynn1130

Well-known member
That is nice that they stepped up. Makes me even happier with my 04 Duramax. No DEF, and no catalytic converter. I have heard several comments about soot on the trailer. I have never seen that on mine and don't know if that is something with newer diesel or what.
 

Mrsfish

Well-known member
Highjack alert!!!! -isn't tiger run the neatest park!! Hope you're enjoying it as much as we have. And, happy that your problem was so nicely resolved.
 

danemayer

Well-known member
Highjack alert!!!! -isn't tiger run the neatest park!! Hope you're enjoying it as much as we have. And, happy that your problem was so nicely resolved.
We love Tiger Run. We've been here for 4-6 weeks of skiing for the last 3 years. This is our first extended summer here - 2 months.
 

GlenStMary

Well-known member
That is nice that they stepped up. Makes me even happier with my 04 Duramax. No DEF, and no catalytic converter. I have heard several comments about soot on the trailer. I have never seen that on mine and don't know if that is something with newer diesel or what.

Ditto Lynn1130! My 2004 Ford 350 just keeps running & running and I've never seen any soot on anything I've ever hauled. What's more, I don't fork over those extra dollars at fill ups. I'll have to think long and hard about ever replacing my truck.
 

mobilcastle

Well-known member
I also have the same year truck-thank you for the explanation. I will file it away for future reference. I am also going to order a reader. I ordered a cheap one for my iPhone and I sent it back-it did not work right. I will check out your choice of reader.
 

Bob&Patty

Founders of SoCal Chapter
The comment about using more DEF when pulling is true. I pull a mostly loaded work trailer every day and get about 4K miles on a tank of DEF.
 

ILH

Well-known member
Ditto Lynn1130! My 2004 Ford 350 just keeps running & running and I've never seen any soot on anything I've ever hauled. What's more, I don't fork over those extra dollars at fill ups. I'll have to think long and hard about ever replacing my truck.

You might not have had any soot - but what about diesel smell, particularly when hauling? The new trucks are really clean. You can't smell anything - my wife's new GM 4-cyl gas engine puts out more smell than my 2011 diesel.
 
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