High End Toyhauler Idea and observations

[ssitarek]

Lets see if anybody else has the same thoughts as I do? I recently (October 2016)lost our 2012 Cyclone 3612 to a storage fire along with about another 100 units. My wife and I started the camper shopping experience back around December 2016. We travelled to Indiana and Michigan from New York to make sure we seen everything that was out there. Good news is Heartland in my opinion still has the nicest "stuff" out there. That is why we ordered a Big Country 3850MB. It was a very hard decision to leave the Toyhauler for a typical fifth wheel but I am very much looking forward to getting my Big Country. Along the way I noticed some things in the Toyhaulers that don't match up to the Big Country and Bighorn (and I am sure the landmark as well but we did not look at any).

1. Baggage compartments are smaller in the TH including the size of the front generator compartment door. Why not have a drop frame like the high end typical fifth wheels along with the huge storage compartment.

2. Entry door size. This may not seem that noticeable to most but as a tall guy I noticed that the doors on the TH are a couple of inches shorter than the typical fifth wheel.

3. More models of TH should be available with the North/ South bed (one that goes out the side). This was a deal breaker in my household.

4. The fender skirts on the TH are often times just cut with a band saw and not made for the unit. The High enders have "custom" fender skirts.

5. The slide outs on the TH often have a couch in them and I noticed that the slide out is not a level floor style. This puts the couch up on the slide out and looks like it is teetering in the slide out. The other high end fivers have the flush floor slide outs throughout.

6. The option for a ten foot garage should be available in a more models. This will keep length down and allow more campsites as options. I used the garage for a second bedroom and nothing larger than bicycles and smaller gear.

7. Second bathrooms are gaining in popularity but I personally do not like one black tank let alone two. Once again this may be better suited as an option.

Once again these are things that we noticed in our search for a new unit. We did end up ordering a Big Country so I still think Heartland is doing a good job. I know some of you will say that these items will just make the unit too expensive. I am not a rich man but am at the point in my life that price did not drive our decision this time around (an insurance check helped this).

Would anybody else like to see a truly high end Toy Hauler manufactured by Heartland similar to their Landmark line?

Does anybody know how to share this with the other forums like Landmark, Big Horn, Big Country, and Road Warrior.

Don't crucify me but I am looking forward to everyone's thoughts.

Scott

 

[danemayer]

Does anybody know how to share this with the other forums like Landmark, Big Horn, Big Country, and Road Warrior.

Hi Scott,

Most regular forum members use the What's New button and see all posts since their last visit. So many Landmark, Big Horn, Big Country and Road Warrior owners will see this thread.

 

[Bones]

I think these are really good ideas. I noticed the same with the storage compartments however on an engineering side to keep complexity down they may opt for a straight frame instead of a Z/drop frame for strength. As an engineer I have most of my complaints with the frames on these campers especially with the pinbox area of the frame. I just don't think they are built well enough for road travel.

 

[SNOKING]

I have long said that no one makes a TH for seniors! They all seem to be aimed at the Nascar or Southern Cal desert crowd. TV viewing angles are terrible, seating and sleeping is for a family of 8 or 10 on and on.

The closes I have seen on paper was the Thundredbolt 385AMP which was short lived. It was a front living room with theater seating facing, get this, straight at a large screen TV. Garage has a King size Murphy bed in a shallow slide. There was an option for french doors and curtains inside the rear ramp/patio. Garage would hold a golf cart or road bike with bed side in. I could not find one on the West Coast to look at. \

OH yeah, and gaudy looking on the outside is another down fall. They stand out like swore thumbs in snowbird parks.

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2015-Forest-River-XLR-THUNDERBOLT-385AMP-121740600

Looks like they and still making it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8fuwzrqEn8

Chris

 

[jleavitt11]

If you only need to haul a golf cart or some bikes. Buy the 5er you want and this TV.

You would be surprised at how cost effective it can be.

I think most of people buying toyhaulers need the large garage. Ours has a 13' garage and is almost to small.

 

[MCTalley]

Your list of items is essentially why we don't have a toy hauler, though we've considered it before. The only "toy hauler" I've found that checked all my boxes was one of the DRV Fullhouse models. Well, every checkbox except the budget one. We can't mention prices on here, but for the out the door price of one Fullhouse, I can easily buy two new Big Countrys or Bighorns.

 

[danemayer]

I think these are really good ideas. I noticed the same with the storage compartments however on an engineering side to keep complexity down they may opt for a straight frame instead of a Z/drop frame for strength. As an engineer I have most of my complaints with the frames on these campers especially with the pinbox area of the frame. I just don't think they are built well enough for road travel.

Touring the line last October, AJ pointed out that they've doubled up the framing up front to add significant strength. Unfortunately I didn't get a picture. I think it was on a Cyclone. Don't know if the same change was made to Road Warrior, Torque and Edge products.

Maybe AJ will see this post and comment.

 

[Bones]

Touring the line last October, AJ pointed out that they've doubled up the framing up front to add significant strength. Unfortunately I didn't get a picture. I think it was on a Cyclone. Don't know if the same change was made to Road Warrior, Torque and Edge products.

Maybe AJ will see this post and comment.

That would be nice to know that they have added extra support. That has to be in my opinion the strongest area out of the whole coach due to the types of stress that is concentrated there.

 

[TravelTiger]

Looking at photos of new 2018 Heartland Cyclones and Road Warriors, I think they are listening. They definitely look more residential and less NASCAR. I'm seeing bigger kitchens, and better configurations for tv viewing. Bigger master baths. More storage inside. And the paint/decal configuration as well, less motocross, more luxury rv. I think they are on the right track.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bones]

Looking at photos of new 2018 Heartland Cyclones and Road Warriors, I think they are listening. They definitely look more residential and less NASCAR. I'm seeing bigger kitchens, and better configurations for tv viewing. Bigger master baths. More storage inside. And the paint/decal configuration as well, less motocross, more luxury rv. I think they are on the right track.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree. They look real nice

 

[ssitarek]

Your list of items is essentially why we don't have a toy hauler, though we've considered it before. The only "toy hauler" I've found that checked all my boxes was one of the DRV Fullhouse models. Well, every checkbox except the budget one. We can't mention prices on here, but for the out the door price of one Fullhouse, I can easily buy two new Big Countrys or Bighorns.

Agreed with the "budget box". We looked at these DRV's in Indiana because a dealer that sold Heartlands had one of those. I wanted to mention this brand but did not want to ruffle any feathers with Heartland folks. But my point is having that kind of design in a Heartland product that is priced similar to a Landmark. Engineers from Heartland can contact me directly for ideas (LOL).

 

[gpshemi]

Looking at photos of new 2018 Heartland Cyclones and Road Warriors, I think they are listening.

I agree. I've said for a long time now that they moved away from the "Landmark of Toyhaulers" and muddied the waters with the different competing Heartland brands. When we bought back in 2010, the Cyclone was the king of the hill. A few short years later, and they were just another toyhauler in the mix. Nothing really made it stand out from a crowd.

While they've made progress, I think AJ is still missing the boat on some things. I look at top to bottom slide windows, ducted A/C, and frameless windows in some mid-level brands like Sanibel, or even Fuzions, and then question if we'll ever get there. AJ argues that frameless windows don't vent as well. That might be true, but they're cleaner, stylish, and why is it acceptable in luxury Heartland units like LandMark, but not in Cyclones? You can't argue it both ways. Love some of the new floorplans, but it's going to take something closer to a Fuzion to get me out of my 2010 Cyclone. There just isn't enough of a difference.

 

[danemayer]

AJ argues that frameless windows don't vent as well. That might be true, but they're cleaner, stylish, and why is it acceptable in luxury Heartland units like LandMark, but not in Cyclones? You can't argue it both ways.

Maybe you can argue both ways.

I rarely see posts about owners boondocking in their Landmarks, but all the time with Cyclones.

Most Landmark owners spend most of their time in parks with electric service. Sure there are some who do a little boondocking. But with residential refrigerator and heavy dependence on electric appliances, most are going to want 50 amp electric hookups. If you have 50 amp electric service, and it's hot, you can run the air conditioners.

On the other hand, a lot of Cyclone owners are carrying toys that are used off-road and in remote areas. They are more likely to be camping without an electric hookup. They'd have to run the generator to get air conditioning. Better ventilation might be more important to them than having stylish windows.

 

[Bones]

As a recent victim of theft I'm not necessarily a big fan of the frame-less windows after seeing how easily they are opened from the outside.

 

[gpshemi]

Admittedly possible, but I doubt that's true. I suspect most owners aren't boondocking in their toyhaulers very often, if at all. How else do we explain away the trend towards residential refrigerators in all new Cyclones. People aren't boondocking with those I'm guessing.

Do only Cyclone users boondock, but Fuzion, Grand Design, and Raptor owners don't because they all have frameless windows?

Bottomline is I've heard large dealers in my area ask AJ for frameless windows, but it's argued it adds $800 minimum to every coach. These items seem like a no brainer to me if you want Cyclone to be king of the hill and not just another toyhauler in a crowd.

As for theft...have you ever seen how quick and easy it is for a pry bar to pop these cheap camper doors? You won't stop anyone who wants in with framed windows. It's quicker to go through the door.

 

[LBR]

Maybe you can argue both ways.

I rarely see posts about owners boondocking in their Landmarks, but all the time with Cyclones.

Most Landmark owners spend most of their time in parks with electric service. Sure there are some who do a little boondocking. But with residential refrigerator and heavy dependence on electric appliances, most are going to want 50 amp electric hookups. If you have 50 amp electric service, and it's hot, you can run the air conditioners.

On the other hand, a lot of Cyclone owners are carrying toys that are used off-road and in remote areas. They are more likely to be camping without an electric hookup. They'd have to run the generator to get air conditioning. Better ventilation might be more important to them than having stylish windows.

Bang on with this statement, danemayer...

We purchased our CY to full-time off of the grid 93% of the time....boondock 14 days, then day 15 hook up in a park to service tanks, then boondock another 14 days elsewhere, repeat cycles.....

I can assure you that yes, the frameless windows are the "form", but framed windows are the "function" for passing breeze thru the coach with no AC running....drop the tailgate patio, pull off all 4 of the 3 season door clear velcroed wind blocks and add another 40 square feet of air flow.

With frameless windows opened, you can hardly press your nose to the opening and feel airflow...lol....they would be fine if one wanted a stuffy, airlocked coach IMO.

Form vs. Function....we can't always have both, but if one wants to enter their TH into a yearly coach show, the frameless windows are definitely more beautiful compared to the framed..... We bought ours for Function.

 

[Oregon_Camper]

I rarely see posts about owners boondocking in their Landmarks, but all the time with Cyclones.

While not a Landmark, our Bighorn has just about all the options a mid-series Landmark has. I know we are not a typical Bighorn camper, but we love dry camping and I'd say we are 80% dry camping and 20% RV camping. We are very lucky to have unbelievable dry camping locations here in Oregon.

 

[Shortest Straw]

We have been looking at toy haulers this year and agree with the op's ideas on them. We would use the garage for our bicycles and then as an office space. An 8 ft garage would suffice. If we could find a hauler with a bigger kitchen and a smaller garage we would by it. I think we have only seen one toy hauler with a regular fifth wheel sized kitchen in it and it was SOB. We also do not really like the frame less windows after touring a bunch of different rigs and feeling the airflow was better in the old style slider windows.

 

[AJJONES]

I think these are really good ideas. I noticed the same with the storage compartments however on an engineering side to keep complexity down they may opt for a straight frame instead of a Z/drop frame for strength. As an engineer I have most of my complaints with the frames on these campers especially with the pinbox area of the frame. I just don't think they are built well enough for road travel.

Not sure if you have seen the construction of our Toy Hauler upper deck area's (you can see video on youtube of Toy hauler plant tour) changed construction a few years ago have strengthened the upper deck area on our toy haulers when we went to the 20K GVWR. Triple axles have 2X 8" tubes that are boxed in together (industry standard is a single 8" tube). If you get a chance take a look at the you tube video to see for yourself.

thanks,

AJ

 

[chiefneon]

Howdy!

We're fulltimers and I did considerable research before purchasing our 2014 Cyclone 4000. I wanted to look at the DRV Fullhouse back then but there were none on the RV lots so you had to order one to see it. Well I can now say for sure if I had it to due over today I would choose DRV Fullhouse over the Cyclone. I looked at the Fullhouse the last one in Hershey last year at the big RV show and the the build quality compared to Cyclone is daylight to dark. Yes they are more expensive but there's and old saying "you get what you pay for".

"Happt Trails"
Chiefneon