Precision Control Wiring

[davidaf]

Afternoon all,

Having some power issues in a 16 Newport. Random 50a breaker tripping, Park pedestal tripping. Moved to a new spot same issues. Opened the breaker box to check the connections/screws etc and started to compare the precision install docs with the actual install in the Rig. PCS replacement/Install doc says to run L1 of the main through the bottom hole of the device then to L1 of the 50a breaker. Then L2 through the top hole of the PCS to L2 of the 50a breaker. Actual install in the rig has L1 through the top hole to L1 and L2 through bottom hole to L2 (ie backwards). I traced all the remaining PCS cables and they appear to go to the correct locations. http://www.precisioncircuitsinc.com...0-500-PCS-Control-Replacement-Manual-RevA.pdf

Sorry this is going to be a bit tough to put in words. For additional info, rig has a HW progressive which shows all is well with the pedestal.

Question, is everyone else wired "incorrectly" per the install guide? The Electrical Systems V1.pdf picture of the breaker box looks exactly like mine. Did Heartland decide to do something different than the Precision install recommendations and make up for it some other way?

Is it possible that under heavy load the PCS sees L1 as being under load (even though it's actually L2) so it sheds an L1 load (as configured per the load shed table) but in fact L2 is actually under load, so the breaker tripps ? That's the hard question to put in words. L1 per the breaker panel is the left 50 then every odd breaker. L2 main is the right 50 main then every even breaker. The PCS is expecting that configuration but since the main wires are going through the wrong holes for AMP readings it sees L1 as under load and needing to be shed when in fact it's the L2 leg.

Thanks
Dave.

 

[danemayer]

The PCS programming sheds loads in a particular order, as needed. It's possible that the programming assumes certain devices on one leg or the other. And if the wires to the mains are swapped, it might be possible that you have enough devices using power to cause the PCS to try to shed loads, but the loads that are shed are not on the offending leg.

If you switch the water heater to 12V/Propane operation, does that make a difference? Are you using the microwave or a coffee maker when the breaker trips?

You might call PCS to see what they think.

Another possibility is that you have a problem causing excessive amp draw. Perhaps a loose wire connection. With power disconnected from the pedestal, check connections for both hot legs and neutral at the breaker panel. Also check the connections in the main transfer switch behind the rear wall of the pass through basement storage. I think your transfer switch may also have some EMS features, but a problem on the output side might not show up.

 

[davidaf]

No Micro or WH. Running WH on Propane while trying to figure it out. Last it happened was right after wife turned on Laundry (dryer), with front and rear AC running. Both front and rear AC are on separate legs. Dryer shares the leg with the Rear AC. Circuit tripped then PCS shows 18A as the last value for Front AC (only device with an amp value), which seems to indicate it tried to shed it. I've never had much luck with load shedding, 9.9 times out of 10 i'd trip the breaker on the pedestal.

I'll check all the connections and give the PCS folks a call thanks.

 

[davidaf]

Spoke with PCS support. They confirmed the wiring was in fact incorrect from the factory. Last night I swapped the main leads and tested every breaker to make sure load was showing on the correct Leg in the digital display. While i was in there w/ power off i checked/tightened all screws. Will monitor for my original issue and checking all junctions over the next several days

So others are aware, the picture in the Heartland Owners Forum Electrical Manual also shows a panel that is wired incorrectly and matched my configuration.

From the installation documents and as confirmed by PCS support Leg1 to left main must go through the lower hole in the control system panel. In this image, left is correct, right is incorrect. Another interesting point the Forum Owners manual also states 1,3,5...15 are leg 1 and 2,4,6..16 are leg 2. Maybe that's an old box but Per the image from PCS and something I confirmed 1,2=L1 3,4=L2 etc if looking at individual breakers or if looking at it as a double pole 1=1, 2=2, 3=1, 4=2 etc.

 

[danemayer]

Spoke with PCS support. They confirmed the wiring was in fact incorrect from the factory. Last night I swapped the main leads and tested every breaker to make sure load was showing on the correct Leg in the digital display. While i was in there w/ power off i checked/tightened all screws. Will monitor for my original issue and checking all junctions over the next several days

So others are aware, the picture in the Heartland Owners Forum Electrical Manual also shows a panel that is wired incorrectly and matched my configuration.

From the installation documents and as confirmed by PCS support Leg1 to left main must go through the lower hole in the control system panel. In this image, left is correct, right is incorrect. Another interesting point the Forum Owners manual also states 1,3,5...15 are leg 1 and 2,4,6..16 are leg 2. Maybe that's an old box but Per the image from PCS and something I confirmed 1,2=L1 3,4=L2 etc if looking at individual breakers or if looking at it as a double pole 1=1, 2=2, 3=1, 4=2 etc.


View attachment 64434

David, please circle back around to let us know on whether reversing L1 and L2 corrects your problem.

I just looked at the PCS Installation Manual and it does say that routing of L1 and L2 through the sensors in the correct placement is critical. And the picture in the Electrical User Guide is of another Landmark that happens to be wired wrong.

On how the branch circuit breakers are associated with L1 and L2, did you remove breakers to see how the buss behind the breakers is designed? I think on older rigs, they alternated for each breaker, and on smaller trailers, they may split left and right with the mains in the center. But who knows, Heartland might be using a breaker panel now with a different buss design.

On edit - I have some other updates to make to the Electrical User Guide and I'll see what I can do about the photo with L1 and L2 reversed. Can you post a clear photo of the breaker panel that shows the same view as in the Electrical User Guide, with your corrected wire routing. I'd like to use it to update the Guide.

 

[davidaf]

No issues yet. Ran 3 ACs and the Dryer w/o issue yesterday. Will keep monitoring but seems to be stable right now post cable move and my tighten every screw exercise.

I did not remove the breakers to confirm but did confirmed via the AMP meter on the wall as well as the Progressive EMS. The PCS install doc also shows that each double pole is tied to a leg.

Dan sent you a PM for the PICS.

 

[jbeletti]

Dave - thanks for working through this. Dan flagged this up to me.

I have passed this up the chain in Customer Service. They'll dig into this at the plant to ensure we're doing this correctly everytime.

 

[davidaf]

Well, problem wasn’t resolved with moving the wires to the proper location. All heck broke lose Friday night which finally got me to the problem. Seems my Magnum inverter is all but dead. internal breakers not working, arching on the AC outputs to my sub panel. Lucky it didn’t ignite. have my mobile guy coming out on Tuesday. Going to move the 3 circuits back to the main panel and ditch the inverter and subpanel for a spell. I’ll have him check the original install job that was done just to confirm they didn’t make a mistake (different installer did the work) It’s been fine for four years with a couple hundred hours of use so i doubt it was an install issue. haven’t been dry camping in a couple years so not sure it’s worth the cost to replace.

Thanks all for the support.