Question about fifth wheel towing.......

[JeremyN]

Everyone,

I have been looking at getting into a 5th wheel, and I think I found one that we might be interested in. I just want to know how the weights all work out when you are looking at whether or not your truck can pull a particular trailer. Here is the info on the truck and trailer:

Truck:
2007 Silverado 2500HD Crew Cab Short Bed
6.0L engine
3.73 rear end
9800 lbs towing capacity
3217 lbs payload capacity

Trailer:
Unloaded Vehicle Weight: 9,280 lbs
Dry Hitch Weight: 1,749 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating: 11,250 lbs
Cargo Carrying Capacity: 1,970 lbs.

I know that towing a fifth wheel has a lot to do with payload. So my payload is 3217 lbs. The hitch weight is 1749 lbs, or lets just round it up to 2000 lbs loaded. So that means that I can only put another 1217 lbs of stuff (people, fuel, luggage) in my truck and still be legal. Is this statement correct?

I am not too worried about my gas mileage at all. My only camping trip more than 1 hour from my house, is a 5 hour pull up to the UP of Michigan once a year. So the fuel mileage between the gas and diesel don't really matter to me. And I have a work car, so the only time I really drive my truck is when I am pulling the trailer

I guess I just want to be more educated on how I can more easily determine if I can safely pull a trailer or not.

Thanks.

 

[jimtoo]

Hi Jeremy,

This is a good calculator made by one of our members. http://free.fifthwheelst.com/

Jim M

 

[danemayer]

Hi Jeremy,

You're focused on the right factors: towing capacity and payload. The payload looks pretty good. Your pin weight could be 18-20% of the GVWR of the trailer. So you might actually see a pin weight a bit over 2000. Still, you have a pretty good margin.

The towing capacity is less than the GVWR of the trailer. This is a bit of a problem because it's really very easy to load the trailer up to the GVWR. When looking at specs, keep in mind that the actual empty weight may be quite a bit higher than the empty/dry spec. 1000 lb difference isn't unusual on a 5th wheel.

If your truck has a gas engine, it develops maximum horsepower at high RPM. Towing a trailer heavier than the max towing capacity could put a strain on your engine and possibly on other components in the drive train.

 

[JeremyN]

I have always been slightly confused with the seemingly low towing capacity on my truck. I guess the gas motor and the 3.73 gears make it that way, but why does going to a 4.10 gear increase it to12,300 lbs? It just seems like way too big of a difference between them.

My co-worker has a 2013 F150 Ecoboost with a 11,500 lb towing capacity. We pulled the same trailer one weekend. It was a 28ft enclosed trailer. It was just about 9500lbs when it was fully loaded. His truck was squating so bad, and did have quite a bit of trouble pulling the trailer. At the first fuel stop, I hooked up and had absolutely no problem with it the rest of the way. My truck was actually sitting perfectly level when pulling it .

I guess it just seems really low to only have a 9800 lb capacity on a 3/4 ton truck that I specifically bought to pull our next fifth wheel camper.

I guess it was my mistake for not doing more research before I bought it. I will just have to find a slightly smaller trailer..........or a different truck.

 

[danemayer]

Ironically, most people with 2500 Diesels are ok on towing capacity but weak on payload; maybe due to the engine weight difference.

 

[caissiel]

Your only problem will be torque required to pull the weight. Your powertrain with 3.73 ratio will possibly be the cause of the transmission and engine overheating. Most towing capacities are determined by heat capacity. The 6.0 will tow your trailer OK but gearing will need to be selected to keep RPM around 3000RPM.
The 4.10 may have better transmission cooling.

Get a ScangageII and watch the temperatures and you will be OK.
The dash gauges to me are just not adequate and lame excuse and will not indicate any alarming changes soon enough.

I towed a 12k lbs 5th wheel with a 98 GM 2500 with the really bad 6,5L Diesel for 9 Years. It was rated for 8500 lbs and the 8.1L was rated for 12k lbs trailers.
The diesel was a great performer and I was not the only one doing it. Following the temperatures closely protected the engine that was the bottleneck for my setup.
I also did 100k miles towing with no issues. Actually it was my best ever towing machine.

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[Sumo]

I believe that the towing capacity for a 5th wheel is higher. I have the same towing number for a tongue pull 9800 lbs, but 12,500 for a 5th wheel.

 

[cookie]

I kinda question your friends tow capacity. Only because I don't know.
Without knowing what model his F-150 is I did look up the Ford tow capacities. Another thing that I don't understand.
I used F-150 4WD Super Crew standard bed for my search.
It shows 5.0L V-8 with a tow rating of 7,500 and a 3.5L V-6 with a rating of 11,100. And several ratings in between.
I don't know how they come up with their numbers but I'm kinda thinking that V-6 would have a hard time getting started at all. Yet it has the highest tow rating for that truck.
The Ford guide did not list any specifics on the type of tranny or rear axle gear ratio.
I also looked up the 6.0L Chevy with the 3.73 and it has the 9,800 rating. 5th wheel or tag along.

Peace
Dave

 

[JeremyN]

Dave,

The 3.5L in the Ford is the Ecoboost engine, if I am not mistaken. I guess I don't know for sure, but the tow capacity of 11,500 on that truck is what he said the dealer told him when he bought it brand new.

But this is again where I struggle believing my tow rating of 9800 lbs. If you just look under my truck at the suspension, and then go look at his F150, mine is clearly more robust. I guess I just don't understand how the auto companies come up with tow ratings. The fact that a gear change can increase mine from 9800 to 12,300 is just hard to believe. I can image a 1000 lb difference, but not 2500 lbs.

And the fact that his truck was clearly struggling with that enclosed trailer mentioned above, and mine pulled it just fine, is another example of how I struggle believing the tow ratings on these trucks.

 

[JWalker]

The difference between the 3:73 and 4:10 in my year Ram is nearly 3000lbs. In some cases it is worth the $ to have them changed out.

 

[HappyKayakers]

Everyone,

I have been looking at getting into a 5th wheel, and I think I found one that we might be interested in. I just want to know how the weights all work out when you are looking at whether or not your truck can pull a particular trailer. Here is the info on the truck and trailer:

Truck:
2007 Silverado 2500HD Crew Cab Short Bed
6.0L engine
3.73 rear end
9800 lbs towing capacity
3217 lbs payload capacity

Thanks.

Just wondering about your truck numbers. 9800 lbs sounds very low for towing capacity for a 3/4 ton. Is that really the truck GVWR? Also, where did the payload capacity figure come from? A brochure? The best way to get payload capacity is to weigh the truck with a full tank and all passengers and baggage. Subtract that from GVWR and you'll know what's left over for your pin weight.

 

[JeremyN]

Just wondering about your truck numbers. 9800 lbs sounds very low for towing capacity for a 3/4 ton. Is that really the truck GVWR? Also, where did the payload capacity figure come from? A brochure? The best way to get payload capacity is to weigh the truck with a full tank and all passengers and baggage. Subtract that from GVWR and you'll know what's left over for your pin weight.

Joe, the towing capacity came right from my owners manual that is in the glove box! The payload capacity I found online. It was right in a spec sheet for the year and model of my exact truck.

 

[HappyKayakers]

Joe, the towing capacity came right from my owners manual that is in the glove box! The payload capacity I found online. It was right in a spec sheet for the year and model of my exact truck.

My bad, didn't realize it was a gasser

 

[RVNEWBIE]

The 3.5 V6 is TWIN TURBO! That is what skews the numbers. It will pull a tree down if it has to. BUT...the suspension SUCKS! And yes....I think the OP is looking at bumper pull tow rating and not 5er. Joe

 

[JeremyN]

The 3.5 V6 is TWIN TURBO! That is what skews the numbers. It will pull a tree down if it has to. BUT...the suspension SUCKS! And yes....I think the OP is looking at bumper pull tow rating and not 5er. Joe

I couldn't agree with you more about the suspension on the F150. And this further proves my point about the confusing tow ratings that the manufacturers put on these trucks. I understand that I don't have a diesel engine, and I don't have the 4.10 gears that I probably should have...........but based on just the suspension alone, there is no chance that a F150 can safely pull more than my 2500HD. I have proved it in my example in an earlier post.

Yet........the F150 has a tow rating 1700lbs higher than my truck.

Here is what my manual says, and I very well could be reading this incorrectly. I have the crew cab standard box, 6.0L engine, with 3.73 gears.



Am I reading this incorrectly? Can I really pull more than 9800 lbs?

 

[scottyb]

My previous truck was a 07 Chevy diesel and I don't think they started rating them separately for 5th wheels until a couple years later. However, it stands to reason that they could have been rated higher for 5th wheels, all along, since you are literally hauling 20% of the load and towing the rest. It's like carrying 2250 lbs in the truck and towing 9000. However, the curb weight of your truck and the dry weight of your trailer are almost at your max GCWR of 16K before you put anything in them. I would look for a truck with the D/A and you could pull it comfortably and get much better fuel mileage and longevity of the truck.

 

[Boca_Shuffles]

Joe, the towing capacity came right from my owners manual that is in the glove box! The payload capacity I found online. It was right in a spec sheet for the year and model of my exact truck.

The best thing to do is to get your truck weighed. My GMC 2500 came in 600 lbs heavier than the owners manual and dealer documents. This was without extra additions.
When the true weight was used, I was at GVWR without adding any passengers.

"how do you know a salesman is lying? His lips are moving

 

[ricky4453]

I am overqualified to respond to this question I have a Masters degree from the University of "I should've bought a diesel" and it only cost me $10,000. I bought my dream truck Silverado 2500 LTZ with a 6.0L gasser. I feared the unknown of owning a diesel. I picked up my toy hauler that weighed 11,000 pounds empty and a harsh reality immediately set in when the RPMs were screaming up a slight grade on I 71 and it took an entire tank a gas to drive two hours and 40 minutes. And I spent a month torturing myself pondering a gear change to save the day. Expense of the gear change is significant and it will not make up for the marginal improvement it has in towing performance. If you're going to get a fiver do yourself a favor and buy diesel. You will not believe the difference in the way it tows and you will not believe the difference in gas mileage. Gas mileage itself justifies the additional Expense of the diesel. Trust me I found out the hard way!

 

[priorguy]

Agreed. I'm a diehard F150 guy, until it comes time to pull a fiver. Then it's time for diesel, insert your favourite brand here. A half ton can only handle the pin weight of the smallest fivers so you're better of with a larger bumper pull that is on your weight class.

The difference in the rating for the ecoboost v6 vs the v8 is just marketing department hype. The 5.0L was severely detuned to be 5 HP lower. Mustangs get almost 100 extra HP. The tow rating is exaggerated to sell more ecoboosts. JMHO of course.


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[Wmnmy]

I am overqualified to respond to this question I have a Masters degree from the University of "I should've bought a diesel" and it only cost me $10,000. I bought my dream truck Silverado 2500 LTZ with a 6.0L gasser. I feared the unknown of owning a diesel. I picked up my toy hauler that weighed 11,000 pounds empty and a harsh reality immediately set in when the RPMs were screaming up a slight grade on I 71 and it took an entire tank a gas to drive two hours and 40 minutes. And I spent a month torturing myself pondering a gear change to save the day. Expense of the gear change is significant and it will not make up for the marginal improvement it has in towing performance. If you're going to get a fiver do yourself a favor and buy diesel. You will not believe the difference in the way it tows and you will not believe the difference in gas mileage. Gas mileage itself justifies the additional Expense of the diesel. Trust me I found out the hard way!

I agree that is why I got rid of my gasser