Sailun Tires imported by the same company as Towmax Tires

[jakoenig1]

I have been trying to get Dynamic Tire Corporation to pay a claim on a Towmax tire that damaged my trailer. TBC Corporation said Dynamic Tire would contact me about returning the tire for evaluation. Two weeks later, it hasn't happened so I called the number I received from TBC. You get a menu which says to press 0 to get an operator. It goes straight back to the menu. You cannot get a person to talk to. I went to their web site and to my surprise, they are also the importer for Sailun Tires which are being recommended by many people on this forum. I for one, would not want to buy tires from an importer/distributor that does not answer their phone. Dynamic Tire Corporation does not want to take responsibility for any damages caused by the tires that they import. Goodyear on the other hand has paid out claims for damage if their tires fail. Here is a direct quote from their web site

"Dynamic Tire has established long standing relationships with numerous brands to deliver quality products to the Canadian market."


Here is a link to Dynamic Tire Corporation. Notice that it does not show they are the importer for Power King Towmax tires. I am not sure if the brand exists anymore. I certainly wouldn't want it known that I imported Towmax tires.

http://www.dynamictire.com/40-Products.html

 

[danemayer]

There's a complicated chain of companies in the tire business, with an interesting mix of relationships. And yes, Dynamic is a distributor handling a number of different brand tires.

Not sure why you're having trouble contacting Dynamic as many people have gotten through to them. Don't set your sights too high on what they'll do for you. From all reports on this forum, their inspections have yet to find a manufacturing defect, so they typically offer either a new tire or a small payment toward you getting a new tire. Never heard of them paying for trailer damage. Your insurance company will cover that.

 

[JohnDar]

They are also not the only seller of Sailun tires. SimpleTire has them, as does Trailer Tire & Wheel.

 

[jakoenig1]

They are also not the only seller of Sailun tires. SimpleTire has them, as does Trailer Tire & Wheel.

They are not a seller of the tire. They import them directly from the manufacturer and sell them through retail outlets. The retail outlets like easy tire and simple tire handle the warranty for them. I suspect they have the North American distribution rights for all Sailun tires. The accounts receivable department at Dynamic Tire gave my message to someone in customer service. They did return my call and have asked to have the tire shipped directly to them.

If you buy from a retail outlet, you return the tire to them. If they are OEM tires, you have to deal with TBC who handles the warranty for Heartland OEM tires. TBC sent the claim to Dynamic tire because of the body damage. I am trying to get them to pay for the body damage because I have a $1,000 deductible on my trailer. I figure I have at least a 1 % chance of getting money out of them. Always the optimist.

 

[JohnDar]

They are not a seller of the tire. They import them directly from the manufacturer and sell them through retail outlets. The retail outlets like easy tire and simple tire handle the warranty for them. I suspect they have the North American distribution rights for all Sailun tires. The accounts receivable department at Dynamic Tire gave my message to someone in customer service. They did return my call and have asked to have the tire shipped directly to them.

If you buy from a retail outlet, you return the tire to them. If they are OEM tires, you have to deal with TBC who handles the warranty for Heartland OEM tires. TBC sent the claim to Dynamic tire because of the body damage. I am trying to get them to pay for the body damage because I have a $1,000 deductible on my trailer. I figure I have at least a 1 % chance of getting money out of them. Always the optimist.

OK, I'll buy that. But because they import the BlowMax brand, as well as the Sailun, does not necessarily make the two equal. It seemed that you were implying that because they import both, both were bad.

 

[jakoenig1]

What I am saying is that three years from now if they start failing and causing damage to our RV's, don't expect to get any money out of Dynamic Tire. You can buy the Goodyear G614's for less than $300 per tire. I paid $1,280 for four of them out the door with balance and taxes from Discount Tire. They will match the price with shipping from online companies like Simpletire. For the difference in price, it is nice to know Goodyear will stand behind their product and pay for any damage caused by a tire failure.

I thought that going to a G rated tire with a load capacity of 4,000 lbs would solve my tire problem. My trailer only weighs 2,810 per tire, fully loaded. It didn't work. A Gladiator tire (14 ply rating, 95 psi, 4000 lbs rating) failed at 8,000 miles and 28 months. The Sailun Tires have the same ply rating and load rating (G rated) as the Gladiator ( not sure the load rating on ST tires means anything). Three years ago when I bought them, there were no complaints about them. Today, there are many complaints. Only time will tell if the Sailun tires are up to the task. It would be interesting if they are made in the same plant as Towmax. Anyone have the DOT manufacturer code on the side of a Sailun tire? The Towmax is 83B5 which is Shandong China, Shandong Hengfeng rubber co.

 

[danemayer]

What I am saying is that three years from now if they start failing and causing damage to our RV's, don't expect to get any money out of Dynamic Tire. You can buy the Goodyear G614's for less than $300 per tire. I paid $1,280 for four of them out the door with balance and taxes from Discount Tire. They will match the price with shipping from online companies like Simpletire. For the difference in price, it is nice to know Goodyear will stand behind their product and pay for any damage caused by a tire failure.

I thought that going to a G rated tire with a load capacity of 4,000 lbs would solve my tire problem. My trailer only weighs 2,810 per tire, fully loaded. It didn't work. A Gladiator tire (14 ply rating, 95 psi, 4000 lbs rating) failed at 8,000 miles and 28 months. The Sailun Tires have the same ply rating and load rating (G rated) as the Gladiator ( not sure the load rating on ST tires means anything). Three years ago when I bought them, there were no complaints about them. Today, there are many complaints. Only time will tell if the Sailun tires are up to the task. It would be interesting if they are made in the same plant as Towmax. Anyone have the DOT manufacturer code on the side of a Sailun tire? The Towmax is 83B5 which is Shandong China, Shandong Hengfeng rubber co.

We've had prior discussions about where Towmax and Sailun are manufactured. I don't recall the codes, but as I recall, they are made by different Chinese companies, located in the same province in China. Kind of like finding 2 tire manufacturers in British Columbia, Canada. Being made in the same country, within 2,000 miles of one another doesn't demonstrate a relationship. Being imported by the same company doesn't demonstrate a manufacturing relationship.

Am I recalling correctly that you previously posted you had Gladiator QR-25 tires? Those are not load range G and lack the steel belts of the QR-35 tires. If so, the QR-25 shouldn't be compared with either Sailun S637 or Goodyear G614.

As for warranty, as far as I am aware there is no tire company warranty that pays for consequential damage. That includes Goodyear's warranty on the G614. While they have a policy that does pay for body damage, it is not part of the warranty and could be eliminated at any time without notice, and you would have no recourse because the warranty is the controlling document.

On most tires, if you get down the road 3 or 4 years and they fail, you're not going to get much warranty reimbursement, if any.

 

[jakoenig1]

"Am I recalling correctly that you previously posted you had Gladiator QR-25 tires? Those are not load range G and lack the steel belts of the QR-35 tires. If so, the QR-25 shouldn't be compared with either Sailun S637 or Goodyear G614."

The Sailun S637 tires are a load range G, 14 ply rating, 129 index which is 4079 lbs. The Gladiator QR25 is a load range G, 14 ply rating, load rated at 4000 lbs (says so on the tire and on their web site). The QR25 tire has 5 tread belts, two steel, two polyester, and one nylon belt. I do not know how many steel belts the QR35 has, I do know the sidewalls are steel as well. The Goodyear G614's are a load range G, 14 ply rating, 126 index which is 3748 pounds. In theory, the Gladiator QR25 tires should carry a 252 lb more load than the Goodyear's and only 79 pounds less than the Sailun's. Hence my comment that Load range, ply ratings and load index on ST tires don't mean anything. The Sailun's are rated for a 9 % higher load (331 pounds) than the Goodyear's. Why? Are they really better than the Goodyear's? Only time on our trailers will tell ( the only load rating that counts). I will be happy if the Goodyear G614's carry 2810 pounds for the next 5 years and 40,000 miles. I put 4 year old Michelin LT245's on the fifth wheel after 30,000 miles on the truck and they lasted 8,000 miles without any problems. They are only rated at 3040 pounds. Again, load ratings on ST tires are meaningless.

I have failed 8 ST tires on two brand new trailers with a total of 16,000 miles in the last 8 years. Four of the failures still had the correct air pressure in them. I found them during inspections at rest areas, the tread or sidewalls had a bubble in them. They were from 4 different tire manufacturers. That averages 2,000 miles per failure. I do drive 65 to 70 MPH ( shame on me). I have a TPMS system and I carry an air compressor. One aftermarket tire on my last trailer (bumper pull 7000 pound) didn't make it home from Florida, 740 miles.

I will never trust a foreign made tire on my trailer again.

Heartland used Towmax tires for more than 10 years. I am sure it took 4 or 5 years to get enough complaints to know there is a problem ( they only continued to use them for 6 years after the complaints started). Any idea how long the Sailun S637's have been available? If more than 5 years without complaints, I would agree that they are a good tire. The Goodyear's have been around for years. Yes, I am aware of numerous failures on the G614's. I hope those people weren't as religious as I am about tire pressure.

 

[avvidclif]

Simple math. Goodyear $1200, Sailun $600 Insurance deductible $500 (if needed, doubtful). Both plus mount and balance.

Your money, spend it how you want, just don't try convince me to buy overpriced Goodyear tires.

 

[BigGuy82]

I have been trying to get Dynamic Tire Corporation to pay a claim on a Towmax tire that damaged my trailer. TBC Corporation said Dynamic Tire would contact me about returning the tire for evaluation. Two weeks later, it hasn't happened so I called the number I received from TBC. You get a menu which says to press 0 to get an operator. It goes straight back to the menu. You cannot get a person to talk to. I went to their web site and to my surprise, they are also the importer for Sailun Tires which are being recommended by many people on this forum. I for one, would not want to buy tires from an importer/distributor that does not answer their phone. Dynamic Tire Corporation does not want to take responsibility for any damages caused by the tires that they import. Goodyear on the other hand has paid out claims for damage if their tires fail. Here is a direct quote from their web site

"Dynamic Tire has established long standing relationships with numerous brands to deliver quality products to the Canadian market."


Here is a link to Dynamic Tire Corporation. Notice that it does not show they are the importer for Power King Towmax tires. I am not sure if the brand exists anymore. I certainly wouldn't want it known that I imported Towmax tires.

http://www.dynamictire.com/40-Products.html

I believe Tredit Tire is the supplier of Sailun tires and the associated rims to Heartland.

I don't know where you live, but if you are in the US, why would you deal with a Canadian company?


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[BigGuy82]

Again, load ratings on ST tires are meaningless.

Just curious...is this your opinion or are you an engineer who works for a tire manufacturer? I ask this because I think all specifications are published for a reason.


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[danemayer]

As I understand it, the difference between load capacity claims on ST and LT tires is that LT requires certification that includes a margin. It's also possible that there may be a tariff on LT tires. So you see things like the same tire with 2 version: one with LT and one with ST. The LT version may claim 3750 lbs and the ST version claims 4000.

I'm a believer in having a significant load margin on tires. So I prefer LT tires that come with a margin, and I don't load them to the full claimed load capacity.

 

[mlpeloquin]

"Am I recalling correctly that you previously posted you had Gladiator QR-25 tires? Those are not load range G and lack the steel belts of the QR-35 tires. If so, the QR-25 shouldn't be compared with either Sailun S637 or Goodyear G614."

The Sailun S637 tires are a load range G, 14 ply rating, 129 index which is 4079 lbs. The Gladiator QR25 is a load range G, 14 ply rating, load rated at 4000 lbs (says so on the tire and on their web site). The QR25 tire has 5 tread belts, two steel, two polyester, and one nylon belt. I do not know how many steel belts the QR35 has, I do know the sidewalls are steel as well. The Goodyear G614's are a load range G, 14 ply rating, 126 index which is 3748 pounds. In theory, the Gladiator QR25 tires should carry a 252 lb more load than the Goodyear's and only 79 pounds less than the Sailun's. Hence my comment that Load range, ply ratings and load index on ST tires don't mean anything. The Sailun's are rated for a 9 % higher load (331 pounds) than the Goodyear's. Why? Are they really better than the Goodyear's? Only time on our trailers will tell ( the only load rating that counts). I will be happy if the Goodyear G614's carry 2810 pounds for the next 5 years and 40,000 miles. I put 4 year old Michelin LT245's on the fifth wheel after 30,000 miles on the truck and they lasted 8,000 miles without any problems. They are only rated at 3040 pounds. Again, load ratings on ST tires are meaningless.

I have failed 8 ST tires on two brand new trailers with a total of 16,000 miles in the last 8 years. Four of the failures still had the correct air pressure in them. I found them during inspections at rest areas, the tread or sidewalls had a bubble in them. They were from 4 different tire manufacturers. That averages 2,000 miles per failure. I do drive 65 to 70 MPH ( shame on me). I have a TPMS system and I carry an air compressor. One aftermarket tire on my last trailer (bumper pull 7000 pound) didn't make it home from Florida, 740 miles.

I will never trust a foreign made tire on my trailer again.

Heartland used Towmax tires for more than 10 years. I am sure it took 4 or 5 years to get enough complaints to know there is a problem ( they only continued to use them for 6 years after the complaints started). Any idea how long the Sailun S637's have been available? If more than 5 years without complaints, I would agree that they are a good tire. The Goodyear's have been around for years. Yes, I am aware of numerous failures on the G614's. I hope those people weren't as religious as I am about tire pressure.

I hope that the tires you were using were rated for 70mph. Most are 65mph. The Sailun S637's and GoodYear G614's are 75mph rated. I have had the GoodYear G614's for three and a half year with over 20K miles on them. They are holding up well. I keep a minimum of 20psi higher than the GoodYears load/inflation chart of 80psi for 3042lbs. So I run at 100psi minimum, but usually between 103psi to 105psi. At 110psi I notice a lot more bounce movement when we open up after traveling.

- - - Updated - - -

As I understand it, the difference between load capacity claims on ST and LT tires is that LT requires certification that includes a margin. It's also possible that there may be a tariff on LT tires. So you see things like the same tire with 2 version: one with LT and one with ST. The LT version may claim 3750 lbs and the ST version claims 4000.

I'm a believer in having a significant load margin on tires. So I prefer LT tires that come with a margin, and I don't load them to the full claimed load capacity.

My friend, Dave T, is a retired Michelin tire factory rep and trainer for the company. He stated that the main difference between the ST and LT tires are the sidewalls. The difference is the ST tires are not used in the steering position and thus do not need the strength built into the sidewall that is required for the stresses induced by steering. So the sidewalls are the week point in the ST tires.

 

[dlw930]

I had a 2011 Big Country (built in 2010) that came with Sailun S637 14 ply tires. That's at least a 7 year track record for the Sailuns. I had no problem with them. My current coach came with Goodyear 614's. When the Goodyears reached an age of 5 years after manufacture, I had zero qualms about replacing them with Sailuns.


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[TravelTiger]

My understanding is that driving over the speed rating of the tires causes the premature failure. Excessive heat causes the rubber molecules to deteriorate faster.


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[SNOKING]

Smoke and mirrors. ST originally got higher weight ratings based of the speed restriction on 65 MPH. Then along came first Carlisle that raised the max speed. Others have followed. And yes Sailun changed the S637 to a ST because of tariffs on LT tires. They also used the new classification to bump up the max load rating. By industry standards a LT235/85R16G has a max weight rating of 3748/3750. Goodyear is being more honest on their max rating for the G614. Chris

 

[jakoenig1]

Just curious...is this your opinion or are you an engineer who works for a tire manufacturer? I ask this because I think all specifications are published for a reason.


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The ST specification is not the problem. The problem is quality control and lack of verification by an outside agency that the tires will actually carry the specified load for the life of the tread at the rated speed. The US DOT does seem to track tire failures on passenger car tires and truck LT tires based on recalls. Why were Towmax tires never recalled? I guess they do not consider it to be a safety issue. The reality is that foreign companies know that there is no recourse if you fail a tire and therefore there is no incentive to keep quality up. I have no doubt that if anyone tested Towmax tires at the rated 3,400 lb load and 65 MPH, most would fail within 5,000 miles. I failed three, one at 2400, one at 3,000, and one at 7,000 miles in the first year of use with only 2,810 lbs per tire. (82% of rated load). I have a TPMS system and I carry an air compressor. I bought a new tire in Florida after one of my failures. It was a Road Rider ST tire. I looked at the DOT code and it is made at the same plant as a Towmax. The point is, they can change the tire brand and continue making crappy tires and the customer will never know they just bought a Towmax tire. The Gladiator tire was rated at 4000 lbs and couldn't carry 2810 lbs for two years and 8,000 miles. ( 70 % of rated load).

Again, load ratings on ST tires are meaningless because no one is checking to see if they can carry the rated load. Creating a law/regulation/specification without an enforcement agency is worthless.

 

[SNOKING]

The ST specification is not the problem. The problem is quality control and lack of verification by an outside agency that the tires will actually carry the specified load for the life of the tread at the rated speed. The US DOT does seem to track tire failures on passenger car tires and truck LT tires based on recalls. Why were Towmax tires never recalled? I guess they do not consider it to be a safety issue. The reality is that foreign companies know that there is no recourse if you fail a tire and therefore there is no incentive to keep quality up. I have no doubt that if anyone tested Towmax tires at the rated 3,400 lb load and 65 MPH, most would fail within 5,000 miles. I failed three, one at 2400, one at 3,000, and one at 7,000 miles in the first year of use with only 2,810 lbs per tire. (82% of rated load). I have a TPMS system and I carry an air compressor. I bought a new tire in Florida after one of my failures. It was a Road Rider ST tire. I looked at the DOT code and it is made at the same plant as a Towmax. The point is, they can change the tire brand and continue making crappy tires and the customer will never know they just bought a Towmax tire. The Gladiator tire was rated at 4000 lbs and couldn't carry 2810 lbs for two years and 8,000 miles. ( 70 % of rated load).

Again, load ratings on ST tires are meaningless because no one is checking to see if they can carry the rated load. Creating a law/regulation/specification without an enforcement agency is worthless.

ST tires are tested, however that testing is to lower standards that passenger carrying tires. RV.net several years ago had a lengthy thread of the two testing standards. Barry Smith (www.barrystiretech.com) a tire engineer that posts on many forums made a statement on one of my tire threads several years ago "that people were not getting killed" therefore the government was not addressing the issue.

ST tires were created to local service on utility trailers and other types that did not spend hour after hour at freeway spends. Then they became commonly used on large RV trailers without much upgraded construction.

Recently however, Carlisle and now Goodyear are building new ST tires for the use they are now seeing. Goodyear worked with Jayco on the introduction of the new Endurance ST tire. It is my belief that Goodyear is going to fall all over it's self to assure that people are happy with the Endurance ST tire.

BTW Carlisle was the first to raise the speed restriction to appeal to the bassboat crowd. Chris

 

[SNOKING]

Also, I have long thought that the A/S (all season) tread pattern of most ST tires contributed to the tires tearing themselves apart in tight maneuvers.

Here is the old Marathon:

And here is the new Endurance:

You will notice that the tread pattern on the Endurance has been tightened up quite a bit. Breaks in the outer ribs on a tire that gets jacked around a lot on pavement grips the ground to much. If you park in a tight spot, wet the pavement or sprinkle sand on it.

Any tire with a lot of sipes has the same bad effect.

On our SOB with 5200 axles I ran both XPS ribs and R250s. I think the R250 is the best tire available for 5200 and 6K axles. Completely closed outer ribs with very little siping.

And here is a picture of a Dunlap OTR semi trailer tire that was park next to us a few years ago at Circus Circus RV in Las Vegas.



And then we have the Sailun S637.

Chris

 

[Roller4tan]

Aren't the Endurances E rated?