Trailer Weights and Ratings - Is there any logic?

[ncc1701e]

I've seen many discussions on the forum about weights, capacities, ratings, and can this truck or that truck handle the load. The question I'd like to propose for a little discussion and understanding is a little different.

At Elkhart, I had our unit weighted just as many others did. Since that time, I've tried to make the best sense of the figures that I could. However, there are still a really simple set that I just can not rectify no matter how many times I look at them.

Our 2013 Sundance 3310CL loaded weight was 12,600# and the empty weight on the door sticker is 10,560#. According to the literature / stickers on the trailer the GVWR is 13,500#. Thusly, by the weights taken we are slightly (900#) under the GVWR for this trailer and actually at the time of this trip we were probably loaded heavier than we normally travel because of some other issues.

Now for the question that I have. Why did Heartland put axles good for only a combined 12,000# under a trailer that they rated for 13,500#? Why did the trailer not come with 7,000# axles? Not being a mechanical engineer I'm sure there is an explanation for this out there somewhere.

Just to be fair, the loaded axle weights were: Front - 4,900# and rear 5,050#. I'm fairly sure someone will have a real smart answer and say "what are you worried about, your under the axle ratings." That is not the issue in my mind. The issue is how can any manufacture state a gross rating of any kind and then not put appropriate structures in to handle these ratings. As a licensed electrical contractor, it certainly was never acceptable by any legal sense to put in wiring for a 30 amp circuit and call it a 50 amp device. When I look at the axle ratings for the TV their combined ratings exceed the GVWR for the truck. Why does the trailer axle weight not equal or exceed the stated manufacturers GVWR rating? This certainly seems like a serious design flaw with legal implications. Of course, maybe someone or Heartland can show calculations that make sense of a GVWR of 13,500# and only axles good for a combined rating of 12,000#.

 

[GOTTOYS]

Very simple answer...Your trailer weighed 12,600# fully loaded ready to haul down the road. One axle carried 4,900# the other carried 5,050#. Add them together and you have 9,950# of weight on your axles but your trailer weighs 12,600#. Where did the other 2,650# go?..Tongue weight....2,650# are carried by your tow vehicle when hitched up. While I don't totally agree with this theory, almost all manufacturers subscribe to it because you never have all the weight of the trailer on just the axles. Some of it will be distributed to the jacks and stabilizers when parked, or carried by the hitch when going down the road...so.... "What are you worried about, you're under the axle ratings" I just had to throw that out there. Happy trails...Don

 

[Birchwood]

20% of the RV weight will be on your truck so the 6000lb axles should be adequate

 

[danemayer]

In the middle of the weigh-in report from RVSEF, it shows two numbers: TOW and VERTICAL. The vertical number is the actual weight carried by the rear axle of the truck. It's not approximate or guesstimated or hypothetical weight. It's actual measured weight and is the part of the total trailer weight that is resting on the hitch, supported by the truck. The remaining trailer weight is on the trailer axles. According to your report you've got 6,000 lb axles carrying actual weight of 4,900 and 5050. You're well within the design spec of the axles.

 

[scottyb]

I don't understand the discrepancies in the GVWR's. Most of the Cyclones have a GVWR of 18K and have 3 6K axles. The cargo capacity of garage is 2500 - 3000. My yellow sticker says it weighed 15346 with options, with a full load of water leaving 1646 cargo capacity. If a toy hauler is designed to carry 2500 - 3K in the garage, why wouldn't it only have a GVWR high enough to support that, let alone the normal cargo anyone would need to carry. Is this meant to meet the specs of the tow vehicles that only recently have the necessary tow ratings and GVWR's to tow these fully loaded rigs? I mean if they had a GVWR of 21K, up until around 2011, none of the Big 3 had tow ratings high enough to pull them.

I went across the scales, fully loaded with Mule and Weber in the garage, full fresh water tank, and nearly full gray and black tanks (4 days camping), and the axle weight was 17100. The TV was full of fuel and weighed 13340. I was 60lbs under my CGWR (30500), 160 lbs under my TV's GVWR (14K), and 900 lbs under my trailers GAWR (18K). I have never weighed just the TV alone, but if you do the math, you can see where I was at.

 

[danemayer]

1646 cargo capacity. If a toy hauler is designed to carry 2500 - 3K in the garage, why wouldn't it only have a GVWR high enough to support that

Scotty,

I think the 2500-3K garage spec is the strength of the garage structure. IF the rig were dry, based on your yellow sticker the cargo capacity would be close to that number. But if you fill up tanks and water heater with 284 gallons of water at 8 lbs/gallon, you're using 1700 lbs of that capacity. Add a few hundred pounds of fuel and you don't have much capacity left for your gear, much less your toys.

Maybe there's a market for toy haulers with less living space, lighter appliances, counters, furniture, decorative appointments, etc. to leave more capacity for water, fuel and toys. In the meantime there are tradeoffs to be made.

 

[mattpopp]

A good example of less living and more trailer is the Forest River Work n Play. Those 5th's have a garage capacity of around 7k to 8k as people haul Rock Crawlers and such. But they lack tremendously in the living area. They carry up to a 21k GVWR. Another brand with the higher GVWR is a Bloomers.


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[scottyb]

Scotty,

I think the 2500-3K garage spec is the strength of the garage structure. IF the rig were dry, based on your yellow sticker the cargo capacity would be close to that number. But if you fill up tanks and water heater with 284 gallons of water at 8 lbs/gallon, you're using 1700 lbs of that capacity. Add a few hundred pounds of fuel and you don't have much capacity left for your gear, much less your toys.

Maybe there's a market for toy haulers with less living space, lighter appliances, counters, furniture, decorative appointments, etc. to leave more capacity for water, fuel and toys. In the meantime there are tradeoffs to be made.

The 15346 was dry. It states the cargo capacity of 1646 is with full FW tank (110) and empty gray and black tanks. Using the OP's scenario, 18K + 20% is north of 21K.

 

[danemayer]

The 15346 was dry. It states the cargo capacity of 1646 is with full FW tank (110) and empty gray and black tanks. Using the OP's scenario, 18K + 20% is north of 21K.

Scotty,

I'm not following you.

18,000 - 15,346 = 2,654. Cargo capacity of 1,646 plus 880 lbs of water (110 gal in the FW tank) = 2,526. Seems pretty close.

If the 20% you mention is related to the weight on the hitch, that's part of the 18,000. It's not additive to make 21,000.

 

[iawoody2]

20% of the RV weight will be on your truck so the 6000lb axles should be adequate

Getting back on topic, this is exactly right. I have the same setup as Tom. On the scales my trailer axles have 9920lbs when hooked up, 12560 when weighted alone . The difference being transferred to the truck as pin weight.
Tom, how's it going?

 

[ncc1701e]

Getting back on topic, this is exactly right. I have the same setup as Tom. On the scales my trailer axles have 9920lbs when hooked up, 12560 when weighted alone . The difference being transferred to the truck as pin weight.
Tom, how's it going?

doing pretty good, we had given some thought to the Iowa rally but other commitments made the trip impossible. I've never been uncomfortable with the weights on the trailer, just really trying to make sense of them.

was really wanting to see how you doors looked. I know it made one check of a difference in the looks of our unit. I bought the parts for my next small project, strut supports for the outside basement doors.

Where you headed after Iowa?

 

[Speedy]

I went across the scales, fully loaded with Mule and Weber in the garage, full fresh water tank, and nearly full gray and black tanks (4 days camping), and the axle weight was 17100.

Why would you travel with nearly full grey and black tanks when the fresh water tank is full as well? I would think you would use the fresh water to fill the grey and black if you know what I mean.

 

[iawoody2]

doing pretty good, we had given some thought to the Iowa rally but other commitments made the trip impossible. I've never been uncomfortable with the weights on the trailer, just really trying to make sense of them.

was really wanting to see how you doors looked. I know it made one check of a difference in the looks of our unit. I bought the parts for my next small project, strut supports for the outside basement doors.

Where you headed after Iowa?

Won't be doing anything until we head towards Florida after New Years. The doors look great, the dealer really liked them. Thanks again for sharing your info on them.

 

[scottyb]

Scotty,

I'm not following you.

18,000 - 15,346 = 2,654. Cargo capacity of 1,646 plus 880 lbs of water (110 gal in the FW tank) = 2,526. Seems pretty close.

If the 20% you mention is related to the weight on the hitch, that's part of the 18,000. It's not additive to make 21,000.

I understand the math perfectly.

The OP's question was why does his rig have 2 x 6000 axles, yet his GVWR is 13500. The answer was that 20% of the weight is carried by the truck and didn't count toward the axle weight.

Why would you travel with nearly full grey and black tanks when the fresh water tank is full as well? I would think you would use the fresh water to fill the grey and black if you know what I mean.

Because we were connected to city water for 4 days, so we didn't use the water from the tank. There was no place to dump black and gray tanks until about 100 mi down the road at a Pilot. I stopped at a CAT scale, while at capacity, because I wanted to see where we were at.

I will never travel w/o a full FW tank, when possible. I never know what the water status or availability will be upon arrival to many of my destinations. If I was going from trailer park to trailer park all the time, maybe I wouldn't feel as strongly. I would hate to get stranded somewhere for a couple days, and not have an addequate water supple. Especially since I have the capacity to do so. That 880 lbs is just part of the weight of my rig.