Will my axles handle a wheel upgrade?

[odiehog]

I am contemplating upgrading my tires and wheels on my 2008 Cyclone 3795 from stock ST225/75R/15 to LT235/85R/16, actually Goodyear G614. I put one on yesterday to judge the "fit" and just the rear wheel curbside (triple axle) comes close to the plastic fender, so I can make it work. My question is with the stock axles (rated 5200#), will they support the much heavier tires and wheels? Or am I also looking at an axle upgrade? And if I need a heavier axle, does that necessarily require more than a 6 lug wheel?

All this with the backdrop of Heartland dropping the axle rating to 5,080# with a sticker, after blowing out a half dozen tires, both D & E load range.

Thank you for any and all help.

Steve

 

[TedS]

Your axles do not carry the wheel weight, the ground does. Should not be a problem. You just cannot load the trailer to the new wheel and tire capacity.

 

[DW_Gray]

As TedS said, you can upgrade wheels and tires regardless of axles. That will not increase your load ratings. But you need to ensure there will still be plenty of clearance between the tires. That is especially important for triple axle trailers.

The answer to the question of why you are blowing E rated tires on your Cyclone needs to be addressed first, IMHO. Have you ever weighed your rig? You should not be blowing good E rated tires on the heaviest Cyclones. Overloading and underinflation is the primary cause to blowing tires. Learn more about weighing at FWS.

 

[odiehog]

Thanks guys, for the quick responses. I did weigh my rig but it was at a Flying J about 3 years ago and it was only a total TV and trailer, fully loaded. It was 21,126#. I'm not sure what my truck weighs but I would guess at just under 6,000#, leaving just over 15,000# for the trailer. As mentioned in a previous post, I'm OCD when it comes to inflation pressures and with the original Marathon "D" range, I carried 65 psi and when I tried the upgrade to Maxxis, load range "E", I carried 85 psi. After lifting and handling the new 16" wheels and a G614 mounted on it, versus the old 15" with the Maxxi, what an incredible difference in weight and "stoutness". I can't help but think that the 15" wheel just doesn't belong on this kind of rig. Aren't the newer Cyclones carried on 16" wheels and a higher load range tire? If not they should be. I also had a "laser alignment" check and was told that it was NOT in need of adjustment.....so I'm pretty much left with my bigger wheels, even if I have to rip off that plastic fender! I figure to have 2" between the rear and center tires, a bit more between the center and front. Does that sound like enough?

Thanks again guys,
Steve

 

[danemayer]

If you use G614 tires, you also need 16" wheels rated for 110psi. I'm not looking at my wheels, but I seem to remember 8 lugnuts. The 8 lugs come from the axle/brake assemblies. If you currently have 6 lugs, I think something else will need to be changed to get 8 lugs.

The G614 outer diameter is no doubt larger than what you now have. It's not the wheel size going from 15 to 16. It's a different tire diameter. You really need to measure this in advance or you may end up with tire contacting tire, which won't be pretty.

 

[DW_Gray]

Okay, let's do some comparisons. Measure the distance between the spring hangers on center.
For my Cyclone, the distance between the front and second hanger is 30.5 inches, second and third hanger is 33 inches and the third and rear hanger is 29.5 inches.
If your measurements are less than that, I'd be real leery of installing larger diameter tires.
I know all about contacting tires! But that was for a different reason and it was fixed last week.
If it's been three years since your last weigh-in, it's time to do it again. This time follow the 4 step plan at FWS.

 

[danemayer]

With Dexter 6000# axles, the hanger spacing of 29.5" allows 33" between axle centers. Goodyear G614 spec sheet says the outer diameter is 30.7".

I think Lippert suspension spacing may be a little tighter than Dexter, so the distance between axle centers might be less than 33".

I think you have to allow for some front to rear motion, particularly when turning.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Steve, what truck do you have. 6K seems a little light. My 07 Chebby 2500 weighed in at 7K. My 13 GMC 1tn is 8K. Cant tell by the pix.

 

[odiehog]

I realize that even with the 16 inch wheels and G load range tires, that I cannot "extend" my carrying capacity, nor am I after that. My goal here is to carry the same load that I've been carrying over the last 6 years without the same level of anxiety. In response to axle separation, I measure 33 1/8" between the front and center axles and 32 3/4" between center and rear. Therefore I would estimate a minimum distance of 2" between the new tires and wheels. Has anyone had a similar setup and run into problems, or does it sound like enough space?

Dan, I was just curious in case I needed to amp-up my axles, if that would REQUIRE going to 8 lugs. If so I didn't want to order $3000 worth of 6-lug wheels and tires. But the answer I'm getting here is that my axles are fine and mounting the new 16" wheels should work, as long as the separation between tires is sufficient and as long as I do not exceed the load ratings.

One more question: Would there ever be a reason to run less air than 110 psi in the above mentioned tires? Especially if I typically run at load capacity for the trailer?

Steve

 

[odiehog]

Steve, what truck do you have. 6K seems a little light. My 07 Chebby 2500 weighed in at 7K. My 13 GMC 1tn is 8K. Cant tell by the pix.

Bob, I've got a 2008 GMC 2500 2WD CC Single rear wheel and standard box. I'd like to hear that it weighs more! Got some specs?

Steve

 

[DW_Gray]

Steve,

We all here are providing feedback and will come from different points of view with the sole purpose of providing information that will help you achieve your goal.

You stated above that you were running 85 PSI in the Maxxis tires. Most all ST E rated tires should never be inflated more than 80 PSI. Inflating more than 80 PSI is nothing more than inflating a balloon to the maximum diameter and letting it drop on a blade of grass and watch it pop. If it has been your practice to over-inflate, I can only wonder how many tires popped like the balloon.

And yes, it is possible to over-inflate G rated tires when you don’t know at least the weight of each axle. There was a very good seminar/discussion last week at the Nat. HOC Rally on this.

If your tires have continually worn out prematurely, there has to be an underlining cause. Until that is discovered, no matter what tires and wheels you install, you will most likely continue having the same problem. If the laser alignment was only for ensuring the axles were evenly spaced at 90 degree angles to the frame, then you may also need to ensure the axles are not bent as well. Only competent commercial truck/trailer centers will be able to do that. Flat springs can be a problem as well.

The D rated tires are rated to carry only 2,540 lbs. per tire @ 65 PSI. I don’t know what you have loaded in your Cyclone or the garage, but I suspect you may be overloading at least one axle or one side of the RV. The only way to determine that is obtaining a wheel by wheel weight report. You can find resources available at FWS.

 

[danemayer]

Steve,

I'm confused. What wheels do you plan to use with the G614s? Do they support 110psi? Do they have 6 mounting holes or 8? Do your axles have 6 lugs or 8?

I might be wrong, but I thought 110psi wheels all had 8 mounting holes, and I'd guess your rig has 6 lugs. What am I missing?

 

[odiehog]

Steve,

I'm confused. What wheels do you plan to use with the G614s? Do they support 110psi? Do they have 6 mounting holes or 8? Do your axles have 6 lugs or 8?

I might be wrong, but I thought 110psi wheels all had 8 mounting holes, and I'd guess your rig has 6 lugs. What am I missing?

Sorry Dan, if I'm not clear. My rig has 6 lugs on the wheel and I'm trying to beef-up the wheels and tires to a higher load range. No, not all 110 psi wheels have 8 lugs. Direct quote from Trailer Tire and Wheels: "LT235/85R 16 Load Range G 14 Ply Rated Goodyear G614 RST Unisteel Radial Trailer Tire on 16" 6 Lug Series 09 Black Heavy Duty Hi Spec Aluminum Trailer Wheel." "Includes 200 psi rated bolt-in valve stem."

Steve

 

[odiehog]

Steve,

You stated above that you were running 85 PSI in the Maxxis tires. Most all ST E rated tires should never be inflated more than 80 PSI. Inflating more than 80 PSI is nothing more than inflating a balloon to the maximum diameter and letting it drop on a blade of grass and watch it pop. If it has been your practice to over-inflate, I can only wonder how many tires popped like the balloon.

Dave, I did say 85, meant 80. I have always monitored my psi carefully. I carry an HD Road King in the garage ~850#, and interestingly, altho it rides more toward the streetside of the garage, my blowout history is 2 on the right (curbside) and 3 on the left. Again, I am convinced that for this rig, designed for carrying "toys", the stock tires and wheels are deficient. There are many other folks on this forum that would agree. I am curious, Dave, are your wheels 15" or 16"? Don't the newer Cyclones carry 16" wheels?

Thanks again for your input,
Steve

 

[DW_Gray]

Dave, I did say 85, meant 80. I have always monitored my psi carefully. I carry an HD Road King in the garage ~850#, and interestingly, altho it rides more toward the streetside of the garage, my blowout history is 2 on the right (curbside) and 3 on the left. Again, I am convinced that for this rig, designed for carrying "toys", the stock tires and wheels are deficient. There are many other folks on this forum that would agree. I am curious, Dave, are your wheels 15" or 16"? Don't the newer Cyclones carry 16" wheels?

Thanks again for your input,
Steve

Steve, I do have 16 inch wheels with 8 lug nuts. I also upgraded from 6K to 7K axles. I use ST235/80R16 Carlisle tires. And yes, all the newer Cyclones have 16 inch wheels.