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Invizatu
01-22-2012, 12:18 PM
Well, now that I am so happy and pround of my new hard wired unit, I have come to realize I have a problem.
I bought and installed the Progressive 30 EMS hard wired with remote display and I thought I loved it.
The problem arises when I want to run electrical off of my Honda 2000 inverter generators (we do a lot of dry camping / boodocking).
The EMS unit will sense an open ground and shut down.
I am now thinking that I would have been better off with the portable that just plus and unplugs from the end of the cord. Too late now, any suggestions?:confused:

brianharrison
01-22-2012, 12:22 PM
The EMS has a bypass mode to allow power into the trailer while using the Honda generator. The fault detection is bypassed however the surge protection is still active.

A more complex solution is to add a second source line dedicated to generator with auto transfer switch and the EMS on the shore power only upstream of the transfer switch - this is how mine is wired in.

Hope this helps.

Brian

porthole
01-22-2012, 12:23 PM
It is not your surge protector, it is the "floating ground" of the Honda inverter generator.
Your EMS - look at the remote for the by-pass switch. That will take the EMS out of the power supply. Since you are running your "known to be good" Honda genny you will just need to skip the protection when using it.

The protection the EMS will offer all the other times you are receiver power from an unknown source will out weigh the minor inconvenience of switching the unit in and out.

Invizatu
01-22-2012, 12:38 PM
It is not your surge protector, it is the "floating ground" of the Honda inverter generator.
Your EMS - look at the remote for the by-pass switch. That will take the EMS out of the power supply. Since you are running your "known to be good" Honda genny you will just need to skip the protection when using it.

The protection the EMS will offer all the other times you are receiver power from an unknown source will out weigh the minor inconvenience of switching the unit in and out.

Duane... Do you mean that when I turn the remote display off, the ems will allow power from the hondas to the breaker box? I have not tried it either way yet since the trailer is a few miles away, but I will later to verify. As you can tell from my post, I know just enough about electricity to be dangerous! Thanks for your help.

cookie
01-22-2012, 12:54 PM
I am not familiar with the Hondas parallel wiring, but on my Kippors, at the junction box where the two gennys meet I installed a jumper from ground to neutral.
This was suggested by Progressive.
I don't know if it is safe, legal, moral or ethical and don't care, cause it works.

Peace
Dave

porthole
01-22-2012, 01:18 PM
Duane... Do you mean that when I turn the remote display off, the ems will allow power from the hondas to the breaker box? I have not tried it either way yet since the trailer is a few miles away, but I will later to verify. As you can tell from my post, I know just enough about electricity to be dangerous! Thanks for your help.


from progressive's website.




http://www.progressiveindustries.net/titlebox2_left.gif
Bypass:
http://www.progressiveindustries.net/titlebox2_right.gif


This switch is located on the remote panel, and allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in the EMS in the event of computer failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled.



If you search Google for Honda generator floating ground RV use etc you will see it it is a common issue but not a "problem"

In the spring I will also try my Honda to see what it does. I have the 3000I. With the factory equipped Onan genny I have no issues and the EMS works as it should.

This issue seems to be more of a problem with the higher end inverter type generators.

Invizatu
01-22-2012, 01:42 PM
Well I am a happy camper again! I took a generator over to the trailer and turned the ems to off ( I thought it just turned the display on and off, I did not realize it was a by pass switch) and unplugged from shore and into the generator. Fired it up and had power in the trailer. Turned the ems on and it cut the power to the trailer and showed an E2 error code... It Works! Turned the ems off and it restored power from generator to trailer. Thanks Duane and Brian.

brianharrison
01-22-2012, 01:45 PM
I'll preface this post with the disclaimer - "I am not an electrical code specialist but i know a little bit to be dangerous". Consult your local codes and if needed contact an expert in your area.

The issue of portable generator neutral bonding, system grounding are complex and follow the National Electrical Code (NEC). There is a distinction between stand alone portable generators (both above and under 5KW), generators installed with auto transfer switches, and other considerations. Here is the most simple article (DRAFT and dated 2003) I could find explaining the issue --> Portable Generators and OSHA Construction Regulations (http://159.105.83.167/Portals/0/WP Safety/Portable Generators qnd OSHA Construction Standards22.pdf).

Here is a link to an OSHA Fact Sheet for this issue --> Link (http://www.uscg.mil/safety/docs/factsheets/portablegenerators_fact.pdf).

In other words, it is a complex scenario, and I don't fully understand the full regulations for all of the different installations. If someone can explain it simpler, I would love to understand it better.....

Take care,
Brian

2psnapod2
01-22-2012, 01:52 PM
Here is the Error Code Chart for my unit. I would bet its the same as for yours.



E-0 Normal Condition
E-1 Reverse Polarity Condition (hot and neutral wires reversed)
E-2 Open Ground
E-3 Line 1 Voltage High (Line voltage above 132)
E-4 Line 1 Voltage Low (Line voltage below 104 volts)
E-5 Line 2 Voltage High (Line voltage above 132)
E-6 Line 2 Voltage Low (Line voltage below 104 volts)
E-7 Line Frequency High (Line frequency above 69 cycles per second)
E-8 Line Frequency Low (Line frequency below 51 cycles per second)
E-9 Data Link Down
E-10 Replace Surge Protector Module

Invizatu
01-22-2012, 02:26 PM
Here is the Error Code Chart for my unit. I would bet its the same as for yours.



E-0 Normal Condition
E-1 Reverse Polarity Condition (hot and neutral wires reversed)
E-2 Open Ground
E-3 Line 1 Voltage High (Line voltage above 132)
E-4 Line 1 Voltage Low (Line voltage below 104 volts)
E-5 Line 2 Voltage High (Line voltage above 132)
E-6 Line 2 Voltage Low (Line voltage below 104 volts)
E-7 Line Frequency High (Line frequency above 69 cycles per second)
E-8 Line Frequency Low (Line frequency below 51 cycles per second)
E-9 Data Link Down
E-10 Replace Surge Protector Module

Michael... The codes are the same as yours and it did exactly as it should. When it detected the open ground from the generator use it cut the power to the trailer and when I turned the ems to off (bypass) it reststored power to the trailer from the generator. The open ground detection in the generator is not a problem, they are designed to operate with a floating ground.

2psnapod2
01-22-2012, 02:37 PM
I am glad that you were able to get it to work and not spend any extra hard earned dough on it. I love it when a issue is solved!