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Boca_Shuffles
10-30-2014, 04:54 PM
I understand the desire for protection for our family and ourselves, but how many people on this forum have fired their weapon while camping at a campground?

I am not talking about at work as a LEO or at a gun range. I' m talking sitting around your CG having a beer and a pickup full of bad guys showed up and threatened you with bodily harm. Or had someone break into your RV while they were sleeping.

It just seems like a lot of paranoia.

Please respond with your name and give a very short description of the incident.

With enough reports from our thousand members, you might educate us to how dangerous it is out there.


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TandT
10-30-2014, 05:35 PM
No, thankfully I have never had to fire a weapon under the circumstances you have described.

Thankfully, I have never had to use a fire extinguisher in my rig either. Trace

cookie
10-30-2014, 05:43 PM
Tom, funny you should bring this up.
There has been a thread going on about the necessity of having a gun.
So I thought I would do a little research into how many people have had to do what you just asked about.
About the only incidents I could find were problems at trailer parks, not RV parks.
Perhaps someone else can find other information.

Peace
Dave

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Lynn1130
10-30-2014, 06:03 PM
I doubt that you are going to find much in the way of incidents in RV parks. As a general rule the people in RV parks are families with children or retirees traveling from one place to another. Most people who carry do so because they are traveling between those places and what they run into on local interstates, rest stops and back roads might bring upon a need.

TXTiger
10-30-2014, 06:15 PM
As Trace said, I too have never had to fire any of my weapons in such a situation. I also have never had to use my fire extinguisher but would never travel without one. I actually have 3 fire extinguishers in my rig, one in the bedroom, one in the kitchen and one in the garage. I won't tell you how many weapons I have.


No, thankfully I have never had to fire a weapon under the circumstances you have described.

Thankfully, I have never had to use a fire extinguisher in my rig either. Trace

Jesse215
10-30-2014, 06:25 PM
It is your right to have a weapon if you choose to. The police do not sit outside your house 24 hours a day to protect you like the President of the United States. A saying that I like is " I would rather be tried by 12 rather than carried by 6"

Jim.Allison
10-30-2014, 06:59 PM
I doubt you can find many RV park altercations, Im sure they are rare.

Lynn1130
10-30-2014, 07:20 PM
I had an altercation with a skunk but better judgement kept me from using my weapon. Do you know how far they can spray?

Jim.Allison
10-30-2014, 07:34 PM
I got a skunk story, friend of mine shot a skunk at deer camp. He turned around and clearly stated that if you shoot them in the head that they can't spray. That was about 1 second before the fumes gassed us out of our camp. HE never lived it down.

jdfishing
10-30-2014, 09:32 PM
If Boca-Shuffles is attempting to draw conclusions about the personal choice of gun ownership from the responses by forum members to his "loaded" question, he will almost surely get the results he seems to be looking for. If gun ownership was based on the probability of using of that firearm, no one could justify owning a firearm. The vast majority of peace officers never fire their weapon in the line of duty over their entire career. Can you then conclude there is no reason for them to be armed. Absurd. If you chose not to own a firearm, DON'T.

Jim.Allison
10-30-2014, 10:46 PM
You said paranoia again!

Seriously, I don't think one can accuse people in this forum of having an irrational fear that EVERYONE is out to get them.

Perhaps trying to understand would give insight to your struggle to accept reality.



It just seems like a lot of paranoia.

mslater
10-31-2014, 06:02 AM
my parents awoke to a man that had broke into their trailer and was standing at the foot of the bed. made my dad pull the blankets over his head and made my mom get up and get him money, than get back in bed and put covers over her head as he laid the barrel of the rifle on them….my dad had a gun hidden by the bed put because of his parkinsons disease couldn't get to it. they were never the same after that. the guy was eventually caught … turns out he was the security guard at the campground….so don't think this stuff dosent happen

Jesse215
10-31-2014, 07:27 AM
My better half was a LEO for 25 years and never had to fire her weapon except at the range to remain qualified. I see even this forum is getting political.

mrcomer
10-31-2014, 08:40 AM
My better half was a LEO for 25 years and never had to fire her weapon except at the range to remain qualified. I see even this forum is getting political.

From what information here leads you to believe this forum is "getting political"?

JohnDar
10-31-2014, 09:19 AM
The paranoia seems to be the anti-gunners contention that any CPL holder is a gun-toting maniac, ready to unleash a hail of bullets at the slightest provocation. While I have the utmost respect for police officers and the job they do, they don't prevent crimes, they respond and investigate them after they occur or are in progress. Either case, it's usually too late for the victims.


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Lynn1130
10-31-2014, 09:30 AM
John you are correct to a point. Having taught Community Oriented Policing (still do in a local college) for some 20+ years I can tell you that proactive policing has made a difference in some cities and counties but there are still many places that are reactive only policing. A few years back I headed the Arizona Regional Community Policing Institute and we along with the Navajo Regional CPI taught proactive policing throughout the state and had some very good results. Policing is a little different than the 70s when the Kansas City Study was done showing that patrols had no affect on crime.

Sorry for hijacking this thread but it could be on its way to being locked up with the tone it seems to be developing.

whp4262
11-01-2014, 10:11 AM
I was parked on a dark street in Arizona a few years back. This guy approached from the dark and was asking questions as he got closer. When he was about 6 feet from my door he asked "so what would stop me from robbing you right now"? I set the barrel of my pistol on the window ledge and told him I'm thinking the bullet I'm going to put in you if you take one more step toward my door. He ran off into the dark. Not every situation requires firing a weapon to end the threat. You just have to be committed to take it farther if you need to and the bad guy has to be convinced that you will.


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4100king
11-22-2014, 06:26 PM
one should never pull a weapon unless you are sure you are going to use it taking someone life is no joking matter and if you pull it better make sure you can pull the trigger or get it used on you

jimtoo
11-22-2014, 07:30 PM
one should never pull a weapon unless you are sure you are going to use it taking someone life is no joking matter and if you pull it better make sure you can pull the trigger or get it used on you


Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum and to the family. We have a great bunch of folks here with lots of information and all willing to share their knowledge when needed.

SilverRhino
11-22-2014, 09:12 PM
I try to never be "paranoid". but I do my best to always be prepared to handle any sitiuation that may arise.

“Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft!”
― Theodore Roosevelt (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/44567.Theodore_Roosevelt)

Randy
11-22-2014, 10:12 PM
I understand the desire for protection for our family and ourselves, but how many people on this forum have fired their weapon while camping at a campground?

I am not talking about at work as a LEO or at a gun range. I' m talking sitting around your CG having a beer and a pickup full of bad guys showed up and threatened you with bodily harm. Or had someone break into your RV while they were sleeping.

It just seems like a lot of paranoia.

Please respond with your name and give a very short description of the incident.

With enough reports from our thousand members, you might educate us to how dangerous it is out there.


ahttps://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10152804974575489&id=100001839223439


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I never think that it is dangerous out there. If I had that thought I would never venture out of my house. You will not get a reply on this thread
about a person firing a weapon in a campground. I am thinking that you have the paranoia. If you are looking for incidents to find out how
dangerous it is to enjoy our leisure time activities then don't go.
Randy, Santha and the Poodles

ucwinters
11-23-2014, 10:27 AM
I never think that it is dangerous out there. If I had that thought I would never venture out of my house. You will not get a reply on this thread
about a person firing a weapon in a campground. I am thinking that you have the paranoia. If you are looking for incidents to find out how
dangerous it is to enjoy our leisure time activities then don't go.
Randy, Santha and the Poodles

+1 on your response. I find the OP's post to be irritating.

Lynn1130
11-23-2014, 02:05 PM
I don't know about irritating. Perhaps looking for something that I doubt is really there. Crime rates are really pretty low unless you happen to live in the inner city and hang around gangs. We have a sheriff in this state (and my county) that keeps his job each election by talking at civic clubs and organizations in retirement communities and scaring the bejeebers out of old retired people. Crime rates in those locations is lower that the rest of the metro area but not because of him. More because old retired people just don't rob and pillage. Because they are afraid of becoming victims and think that they really need more deputies patrolling that some of the really high crime areas in the county. And yes it is Sheriff Joe.

One thing to keep in mind when you decide to carry. Police protective vests are designed to stop bullets, especially those fired by the officer's own weapon. There is a reason for that. Many times officer's are shot with their own guns. You might just provide a gun to someone who did not have one when they started the theft/robbery.

cyclist0920
11-23-2014, 07:54 PM
Do you:
Carry automobile, home, and life insurance?
Perform preventative maintenance on your car, and home?
Get anual physicals?
God and the Boy Scouts teach us to be prepared.
i would rather have a gun and never shoot it at anything other than paper targets, than not have one and need it!

jmgratz
11-23-2014, 08:45 PM
The paranoia seems to be the anti-gunners contention that any CPL holder is a gun-toting maniac, ready to unleash a hail of bullets at the slightest provocation. While I have the utmost respect for police officers and the job they do, they don't prevent crimes, they respond and investigate them after they occur or are in progress. Either case, it's usually too late for the victims.


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I would have to disagree about LEO preventing crimes. I have prevented many crimes during my LE career. I know because when interviewing suspicious persons they have told me they were about to commit a crime until they say my patrol car. Likewise I firmly believe there is a deterrent when criminals know a person is carrying a weapon. Which would a criminal want to chose as a victim, someone carrying a weapon or someone who is known to be unarmed?

danemayer
11-23-2014, 09:01 PM
Debates like this are implicitly about risk assessment.

The standard practice in assessing risk is to multiply the probability of occurrence by the consequences of damage were the risk event to occur.

On one side of the debate are those who observe correctly that the probability is very low that one would actually experience a risk event calling for armed self-defense.

The other side of the debate recognizes that the since the consequences of damage could be loss of life, any non-zero probability is unacceptable.

There are various ways of dealing with risk.

One method is to accept the risk. People who rely on the low probability to keep them safe are adopting this method.

Another method is to avoid the risk - perhaps by not traveling.

Another method is to assign the risk to someone else - perhaps the police. But since you can't predict on police being present to deal with the threat, that might not work.

Then there's mitigation - reduce the risk of the event having a bad outcome by being prepared to defend yourself.

We all get to evaluate the risks we face and how we want to deal with them. And as we see in this thread, one answer doesn't fit everyone.

JohnDar
11-23-2014, 09:42 PM
debates like this are implicitly about risk assessment.

The standard practice in assessing risk is to multiply the probability of occurrence by the consequences of damage were the risk event to occur.

On one side of the debate are those who observe correctly that the probability is very low that one would actually experience a risk event calling for armed self-defense.

The other side of the debate recognizes that the since the consequences of damage could be loss of life, any non-zero probability is unacceptable.

There are various ways of dealing with risk.

One method is to accept the risk. People who rely on the low probability to keep them safe are adopting this method.

Another method is to avoid the risk - perhaps by not traveling.

Another method is to assign the risk to someone else - perhaps the police. But since you can't predict on police being present to deal with the thread, that might not work.

Then there's mitigation - reduce the risk of the event having a bad outcome by being prepared to defend yourself.

We all get to evaluate the risks we face and how we want to deal with them. And as we see in this thread, one answer doesn't fit everyone.

Bravo!!

donr827
11-24-2014, 05:29 AM
Well said Dan. Good statement and no one gets upset.
Don

Hastey
11-24-2014, 08:43 AM
No, thankfully I have never had to fire a weapon under the circumstances you have described.

Thankfully, I have never had to use a fire extinguisher in my rig either. Trace

This is a very good point. I'm reading this thread and it's the best discussion I've seen yet on this subject, on this forum. Ironically at the same time I'm reading this there is a Fergeson MO debate going on. The question came up about why the officer didn't shoot for the leg and simply disable him. This always makes me yell at the television.

Ask any soldier or police officers and they will tell you that they don't train to shoot at legs. I've never seen a 10 ring on a kneecap of a siloette. We train to shoot at center mass. This brings me to my point.

Im retired and now do Industrial Safety Training. One subject is fire prevention and evacuation. We teach this at several locations and we teach that this must be practiced so it will be second nature and everyone knows what to do in an emergency.

Firearms are no different. Trained police officers and soldiers fall back on their training when the times are intense. There is so much going on you don't have time to think about how to use your weapon, point of aim, breath control, trigger control, etc, etc. now throw collateral damage assessment on top of that and, oh yea can't forget the "am I shooting the right guy". Anyway you will always fall back on your training.

Too many people get a CCL and a firearm and never train. Find you a range and practice. Your natural point of aim should be second nature. If you have to look at your weapon to do any function then you need to train. find a gun club and don't be to proud to get professional instruction.

JMO

SilverRhino
11-24-2014, 09:22 AM
Firearms are no different. Trained police officers and soldiers fall back on their training when the times are intense. There is so much going on you don't have time to think about how to use your weapon, point of aim, breath control, trigger control, etc, etc. now throw collateral damage assessment on top of that and, oh yea can't forget the "am I shooting the right guy". Anyway you will always fall back on your training.

Too many people get a CCL and a firearm and never train. Find you a range and practice. Your natural point of aim should be second nature. If you have to look at your weapon to do any function then you need to train. find a gun club and don't be to proud to get professional instruction.

JMO

Excellant advice! You can never train enough when it comes to fire arms.

Lynn1130
11-24-2014, 09:53 AM
I am going to say this and hope it does not start a firestorm but over half of the people that I see at CC classes scare the H--- out of me. The thought that these people are carrying a gun is frightening and that thought was always running through my mind when responding to calls. Which one will shoot me the perp or the "victim"? Now I have no doubt that is not the case with most all here but it is a fact that should be considered.

chiefaret
11-24-2014, 04:46 PM
Danemayer is right on the mark. One of the most cogent responses to this thread. Some just ignore that there are bad people out there. The couple in New Mexico that ran into the Arizona prison escapees paid the ultimate price by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Maybe the outcome would have been different if he had been armed and proficient. Just saying. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/23/arizona-escapees-alleged-accomplice-charged-murder-oklahoma-couple-new-mexico/

danemayer
11-24-2014, 05:42 PM
I am going to say this and hope it does not start a firestorm but over half of the people that I see at CC classes scare the H--- out of me. The thought that these people are carrying a gun is frightening and that thought was always running through my mind when responding to calls. Which one will shoot me the perp or the "victim"? Now I have no doubt that is not the case with most all here but it is a fact that should be considered.
Lynn,

Did you ever go to a reunion and find yourself thinking how everyone looks so old. Well, they were looking at you thinking the same.

So, what do you think those CC class people were thinking about you? :p

comanchecarpenter
11-24-2014, 05:46 PM
We regularly practice with our side arms (Mrs=Springfield xds .45acp, Mr.=Springfield 1911 .45acp). We do so because we know there are bad people out there. I am retired law enforcement and two tour survivor of Vietnam. If you have them folks practice with them. When the stuff hits the fan your training is what you will fall back on.

cookie
11-24-2014, 06:09 PM
I just had to share something that happened to me today.
Some might argue that the chances of needing a weapon are slim to none. Why have one.
What are the chances of a tree branch breaking off and dropping on your truck while you are driving?
Slim to none?
Today I fell in that slim zone. Clunk!
Never say never. Never.

Peace
Dave

Lynn1130
11-25-2014, 09:34 AM
Dan, I am not to worried about what they were thinking of me since I am/was the "expert" doing the training I hope they were trying to learn something. I can only try to point them in the right direction but "common sense" is not so common and it shows in some. In the end they had to please me to get the permit. Some did not.

I stopped teaching those classes because I began to wonder if I could get enough insurance to cover what I was afraid might happen with some of those people carrying guns.

lwmcguir
11-25-2014, 12:53 PM
I am going to say this and hope it does not start a firestorm but over half of the people that I see at CC classes scare the H--- out of me. The thought that these people are carrying a gun is frightening and that thought was always running through my mind when responding to calls. Which one will shoot me the perp or the "victim"? Now I have no doubt that is not the case with most all here but it is a fact that should be considered.
I certainly understand what you are saying however I am way more concerned about the folks that carry and don't have good intentions. With your experience you know that number far outweighs the legal CC crowd.

Lynn1130
11-25-2014, 01:38 PM
oh, I agree and no one should get the idea that I am against carrying by anyone who wished to do so and goes through the proper training AND, as I said it another post, has the proper mindset that is necessary with using deadly force. That part is more important that most everything else, trust me. But too many think that they can stick a gun under their shirt and wander off to the shopping mall and they are ready to do battle with a perp bent on doing bad things to anyone who gets in his/her way. We value life. Most of them do not.

If someone is going to do you harm, do what is necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones and keep doing it until the threat is over.

JohnDar
11-25-2014, 10:02 PM
When threatened, you have to be ready to meet violence with greater violence. Even if it's hand to hand. Your objective is to inflict as much injury on the attacker as you can. Rules do NOT apply.


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Jimnkarens
11-25-2014, 10:25 PM
Cnsidering what is occuring in this country right now, we all better be prepared to exact lethal force. The chances of meeting the bad guys are increasing exponentially.

traveler44
12-05-2014, 07:24 PM
one should never pull a weapon unless you are sure you are going to use it taking someone life is no joking matter and if you pull it better make sure you can pull the trigger or get it used on you
I am going to class next week to try to get my Illinois CCW permit and I have one from Florida. I have thought long and hard about the times that I survived scary situations and how and why I did without a weapon. I know that I will feel better having a weapon on me for self protection, just for the times when I can't escape a threat. If I ever pull or use a weapon will have to be determined by the circumstances.

Bob&Patty
12-08-2014, 11:50 AM
Only at gun ranges. We carry our (real)1911 Colt ACP when traveling. Could I pull the trigger....dont know. If its me or them, I probably could. So far most gun ranges let me shoot my 1847 Walker and BTW its a hoot to shoot and LOUD. Everyone looks when you pull the trigger.

MdMike
12-11-2014, 07:29 AM
I carry my weapon all of the time when RV'ing. Why? Because I have read articles of folks being robbed, not necessarily at campgrounds but in parking lots (tell me you have never stopped at a Walmart?) rest areas etc. my wife carries as well. I do remember in the past few years reading two different stories where people were camped in National Parks and found murdered after being robbed. One couple was shot to death in the RV and the perp torched it after killing them. I prefer being prepared. Also, we hike a lot in areas known to have bears. I carry two bear spray canisters as well as a large caliber handgun. There of course are also the big cats. Then there are the two legged creeps that also hike. Years ago there was a serial killer hiking, robbing and raping then murdering along the Appalachian Trail. He was eventually caught, but not until after much mayhem along his several state crime spree. I will not get into the second amendment debate, but if I am legal to carry then I do. My right to do so and I really do not care what others think!

lwmcguir
12-11-2014, 08:43 AM
I carry my weapon all of the time when RV'ing. Why? Because I have read articles of folks being robbed, not necessarily at campgrounds but in parking lots (tell me you have never stopped at a Walmart?) rest areas etc. my wife carries as well. I do remember in the past few years reading two different stories where people were camped in National Parks and found murdered after being robbed. One couple was shot to death in the RV and the perp torched it after killing them. I prefer being prepared. Also, we hike a lot in areas known to have bears. I carry two bear spray canisters as well as a large caliber handgun. There of course are also the big cats. Then there are the two legged creeps that also hike. Years ago there was a serial killer hiking, robbing and raping then murdering along the Appalachian Trail. He was eventually caught, but not until after much mayhem along his several state crime spree. I will not get into the second amendment debate, but if I am legal to carry then I do. My right to do so and I really do not care what others think!

Extremely well stated!! I agree 100%

porthole
12-11-2014, 09:13 AM
I carry my weapon all of the time when RV'ing.......... My right to do so and I really do not care what others think!

How do you do that in Maryland?

MdMike
12-11-2014, 09:16 AM
How do you do that in Maryland?

I have a permit for Md as well.

porthole
12-11-2014, 09:54 AM
Resident. None of the non residents cover MD.

It is tough here in our area. MD, DE, NJ, NY CT - just can't get out of the area to actually be able to carry without being very careful. In NJ or NY if you are not a LEO you need to be real careful.
As a Jersey resident, even with non resident permits, I still can not have a handgun in my vehicle unless I am traveling directly from my residence to a range or shop or out of state, with no stopping in between.

OldTanker
12-12-2014, 05:19 PM
Retired LEO and retired Army. I was lucky, my service in the Army was all peacetime and while I came very close to firing in extremis as a LEO I was able to solve the problem without popping the caps. I don't think about having a firearm as anything resembling paranoia. Same goes for the fire extinguishers in my rig and tow vehicle. Or the life preservers I used while on a boat, the safety line while climbing or the myriad of drills I had to perform for a check pilot while I was flying my own plane. Or the insurance I carry on all of my vehicles not to mention the annual check ups and good living habits I use. I do know that absent any of those items, when they are needed, I won't be likely to be worrying about anything else, ever. Paranoid? I don't think so. Prepared? Yes. Worried? Nope. Just going to live my life as best I can and care for those close to me.

whp4262
12-13-2014, 06:53 PM
Retired LEO and retired Army. I was lucky, my service in the Army was all peacetime and while I came very close to firing in extremis as a LEO I was able to solve the problem without popping the caps. I don't think about having a firearm as anything resembling paranoia. Same goes for the fire extinguishers in my rig and tow vehicle. Or the life preservers I used while on a boat, the safety line while climbing or the myriad of drills I had to perform for a check pilot while I was flying my own plane. Or the insurance I carry on all of my vehicles not to mention the annual check ups and good living habits I use. I do know that absent any of those items, when they are needed, I won't be likely to be worrying about anything else, ever. Paranoid? I don't think so. Prepared? Yes. Worried? Nope. Just going to live my life as best I can and care for those close to me.

What kind or model of plane do you have?


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OldTanker
12-14-2014, 01:12 PM
What kind or model of plane do you have?


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I used to have a Piper Comanche 180. Great plane and very efficient cros country bird. Eventually got an A&P because I liked to work on it. The plane, house, PU and a lot of other stuff was sold when we started fulltiming in 04.

whp4262
12-14-2014, 08:16 PM
I used to have a Piper Comanche 180. Great plane and very efficient cros country bird. Eventually got an A&P because I liked to work on it. The plane, house, PU and a lot of other stuff was sold when we started fulltiming in 04.

I've got a few hours in a Comanche, nice airplane. I got my A&P in 1987 and my IA in 1990. Spent some time in the AG world and as a Test Pilot for Cessna. I'm typed in the CE-500, CE-560XL, CE-680, BE-300, BE-400 and MU-300. I work for the FAA now and spend most of my time behind a desk.


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JohnDar
01-21-2015, 11:50 PM
The only time I've actually put a weapon in my hand as a defensive move was at home when a scruffy individual came onto the porch, banged on the door and yelled if some person lived here. He was not dressed for the weather and was able to see the .45 in my hand through the sidelite of the door. Most of the time, I wear a sidearm while at home or have one readily at hand. You can preach all you want, but where we live is not as idyllic as the local governments would have you believe.

Padiddle
01-22-2015, 12:48 AM
...We did pull into the KOA that we were staying at one night, and there was a rather heavy police presence there. I asked a deputy walking by our camper what was going on because I hate being uninformed. A simple, "Are we OK?" He asked me to step back inside, and offered that a prisoner that was being transported had escaped from a police car and was at that time hiding in the immediate wooded area. Whatever happened, happened without incident, and we never heard or saw anything more that evening.
You just never know. Could have gone any one of different ways.

'Lil Guy'
01-22-2015, 07:02 AM
Retired LEO and retired Army. I was lucky, my service in the Army was all peacetime and while I came very close to firing in extremis as a LEO I was able to solve the problem without popping the caps. I don't think about having a firearm as anything resembling paranoia. Same goes for the fire extinguishers in my rig and tow vehicle. Or the life preservers I used while on a boat, the safety line while climbing or the myriad of drills I had to perform for a check pilot while I was flying my own plane. Or the insurance I carry on all of my vehicles not to mention the annual check ups and good living habits I use. I do know that absent any of those items, when they are needed, I won't be likely to be worrying about anything else, ever. Paranoid? I don't think so. Prepared? Yes. Worried? Nope. Just going to live my life as best I can and care for those close to me.

Nicely put.

Bill-Cathy
01-06-2016, 03:40 PM
We worked at Grant campground in Yellowstone National Park in 2010. August of that year two prison escapees plus a woman companion came to Yellowstone to elude capture. One of the murderers used the pay phone right in front of our check-in station. None of us knew the felons were even in the park until the park rangers warned us of their sighting nearby. I was off duty at the time but another member of our team came to our 5th wheel telling me that the fugitives were seen at our office. I travel with the 12 gauge which I promptly locked and loaded! Luckily for us the bad guys were captured days later in a different park. So while not really being in any danger, it was comforting having a means of protecting myself and my wife.

CaptnJohn
01-06-2016, 06:25 PM
No, I'm NOT paranoid. Yes I carry. No I have never fired a weapon at a human since the '60s. Would I to protect myself, my family, or you ~ **** yes. I have the greatest respect for police but I know when seconds count they are only minutes away. I'd much rather have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have one.

Birchwood
01-06-2016, 07:43 PM
I am Canadian and we see no need to carry weapons but yes we have had two incidents at our RV Golf resort where people have fired their guns.
One last year and another two days ago.......they both shot themselves in the head.

cookie
01-06-2016, 08:13 PM
I am Canadian and we see no need to carry weapons but yes we have had two incidents at our RV Golf resort where people have fired their guns.
One last year and another two days ago.......they both shot themselves in the head.
Yeah, golf can be pretty frustrating.

Peace
Dave

Sarge
07-24-2016, 02:24 AM
OP - Everyone has to make a choice.

Some choose to accept responsibility for their own safety and the protection of their families. Others choose to also defend the innocent lives in their zone. These people own - And sometimes carry - Firearms.

Some choose instead to rely on the mercy of criminals / terrorists - And the response time of someone else with a firearm - After a frantic 911 call.

If you knew if / where / when a violent attack against someone you care about was going to happen - Who would you rather have in between your loved one and their attacker?

You - With your phone.

Or me - A highly trained and experienced trigger puller with my sidearm.

Its your choice. Evil knows no bounds. Evil respects nothing.

I choose to accept what I consider my moral responsibility - And carry firearms for the defence and protection against that evil.

Good luck......

rahewett
07-24-2016, 08:20 AM
I have never had to use my weapon and hope I never do, but it goes with me where ever I go. I have been in a couple of camp grounds where I didn't know anyone and sometimes you just get a feeling. I don't flaunt the fact I am armed but I know my wife and I are safer be cause of it. As one post said, "if you don't like guns, don't get one". I for one am glad that so many others on here do carry. I feel safer because of them.

Sent from my XT1093 using Tapatalk

Carleen
07-24-2016, 07:45 PM
I carry when traveling. Because it's just my mom and I, we are always alert to the company around us. We have been in many campgrounds where we are watched- makes me uncomfortable. People take notice that there isn't a man around! I also got a bigger dog :)


Carleen
2011 Ford F-350 6.7
2011 Big Horn 3585RL

JohnDar
07-24-2016, 08:00 PM
I carry 99% of the time. Even at home, I've either got one on me or very close at hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

caissiel
07-25-2016, 07:49 AM
One man in our campground in Florida last winter did shoot his gun. Put a hole in his $300000 motor home and the bullet lodged in the next camper. No one in the other camper while the bullet hit the kitchen area.
Cost to repair the other camper was above $3000. Plus his own was not known at the time.
I am Canadian and do stop at many walmarts when we travel. My truck has an alarm and I doubt anyone can break in my unit before I can alarm for help.
Plus we are not allowed to have a weapon unless it's locked up with the amunitions locked up in a separate cabinet, its the law here.

Sent from my B1-710 using Tapatalk

BigGuy82
07-25-2016, 08:01 AM
I carry when traveling. Because it's just my mom and I, we are always alert to the company around us. We have been in many campgrounds where we are watched- makes me uncomfortable. People take notice that there isn't a man around! I also got a bigger dog :)


Carleen
2011 Ford F-350 6.7
2011 Big Horn 3585RL


I'd be interested in how you do this legally across multiple states. When you say "carry", I am assuming you mean a handgun and not just keeping a shotgun or rifle in the coach. Of course I am a believer that being alive to defend yourself when charged with a felony, such as illegal carry, is very important, BUT - I'm not willing to go to jail because I got pulled over on a traffic stop and the officer saw a bulge in my pocket.

I'm not even suggesting you are doing something illegal - I just want to know how you do it so I can copy it.

jddelano
07-25-2016, 08:06 AM
I had an altercation with a skunk but better judgement kept me from using my weapon. Do you know how far they can spray?

You should mention skunks, I seem to remember we were camping in upper New York state. One early morning my DW and daughter headed out to the restroom. As they approached the ladies room they were surprised by a fluffy skunk (or maybe I should say the skunk was surprised by them)! Our daughter got it full force. Horrified, they returned back to the pop-up but before they could open the door I was already shewing them away as the stench was the strongest (acrid) odor I think I've ever come across. Fortunately, we had a couple of cans of tomato paste; so I escorted them back up to the rest room (no, I didn't have a gun in my hand :)) where the skunk spray was neutralized--never saw the skunk. Out daughter was about four feet from the skunk! Moral of the story--don't carry a gun for skunks but you should seriously think about carrying some tomato sauce juice!

BigGuy82
07-25-2016, 08:29 AM
One man in our campground in Florida last winter did shoot his gun. Put a hole in his $300000 motor home and the bullet lodged in the next camper. No one in the other camper while the bullet hit the kitchen area.
Cost to repair the other camper was above $3000. Plus his own was not known at the time.
I am Canadian and do stop at many walmarts when we travel. My truck has an alarm and I doubt anyone can break in my unit before I can alarm for help.
Plus we are not allowed to have a weapon unless it's locked up with the amunitions locked up in a separate cabinet, its the law here.

Sent from my B1-710 using Tapatalk

Regarding the moron who put holes in two RV's and endangered the safety of others ... was he arrested? Was he charged? In my mind, the biggest problem with the more "gun control" argument is that we don't enforce the laws that are in place and then using some perverted logic, we feel more laws wil help. You can bet that he broke more that one law, even with an "accidental" discharge and in my opinion, regardless of cause, he should have been charged. Accidents happen every day with motor behicles and usually someone gets a ticket or arrested.

The only problem with any alarm system is if the intruder breaches the premises while you are in it and you (or the alarm) sends out a call for help, on a good day (on average) that help is 7 minutes away. Don't rely on other gallant campers to come to your aid - some very well may but most would likely exhibit a healthy amount of caution. Less response time is unlikely and more time is more the norm - especially in a campground that is remote. In short, an intruder who enters any property while occupied is a deadly intruder and your chance of bodily injury is astronomical. The police really can't help you much at that point, other than to arrest (maybe) the perps after they've done their damage. While you doubt that anyone could breach before help arrived ("I doubt anyone can break in my unit before I can alarm for help"), I am pretty sure they could. A simple pry bar can blow past an RV door before you know what hit you. Alarms are great for scaring off thieves, not for deterring an aggressive dangerous felon who doesn't care if he hurts someone while robbing them.

None of this even begins to cover the value or danger of being armed all of the time by carrying a handgun and I REALLY don't want to enter into that endless debate! Also, I'm not at all debating your decision to not carry firearms - just explaining why I don't see your logic. Finally, your law is your law and everyone (even visitors) should respect that. In fact, I'm right now trying to figure out how I will drive to Alaska while respecting your laws and at the same time protecting our lives and property. I don't mind keeping the ammo and weapon separate - it's getting it legally acroos the border that is the problem.

cookie
07-25-2016, 08:30 AM
I'd be interested in how you do this legally across multiple states. When you say "carry", I am assuming you mean a handgun and not just keeping a shotgun or rifle in the coach. Of course I am a believer that being alive to defend yourself when charged with a felony, such as illegal carry, is very important, BUT - I'm not willing to go to jail because I got pulled over on a traffic stop and the officer saw a bulge in my pocket.

I'm not even suggesting you are doing something illegal - I just want to know how you do it so I can copy it.
You can get permits from more than one state and doing so will allow you to carry in about 37 states.
Utah and Florida seem to be the most popular non-resident issuers.
There is a lot that you need to be aware of when seeking a permit as well as carrying.
Here is a link that might help you in finding out what permits are honored in each state. [LINK (http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html)]
Do your homework.

Peace
Dave

danemayer
07-25-2016, 08:48 AM
I'd be interested in how you do this legally across multiple states. When you say "carry", I am assuming you mean a handgun and not just keeping a shotgun or rifle in the coach. Of course I am a believer that being alive to defend yourself when charged with a felony, such as illegal carry, is very important, BUT - I'm not willing to go to jail because I got pulled over on a traffic stop and the officer saw a bulge in my pocket.

I'm not even suggesting you are doing something illegal - I just want to know how you do it so I can copy it.

The "Legal Heat" IOS app is a good reference on state-by-state laws and carry issues.

Some states do not allow you to possess a firearm even locked up in your RV, without a local permit, and they don't recognize licenses issued by other states. And local permits are impossible to get if you're a non-resident.

When traveling from state to state, Federal Law allows you to carry, with certain restrictions, as you cross from a legal state, through an illegal state, to another legal state. A few states, in particular New York and New Jersey, ignore Federal Law and will arrest you, confiscate your weapon, and make you appear in court. At that point you can use the Federal Law as an affirmative defense and after considerable expense and inconvenience, you'll be acquitted.

While they may not go as far as New York and New Jersey, Maryland is also hostile to carrying firearms. Illinois and California as well.

The law is murky. In some places, if your RV is unhitched and hooked up to utilities, it's regarded as a home. But if hitched and ready to travel, it's an extension of your tow vehicle. The law is different for each situation.

If you are covered by Federal law while traveling from state to state, but you stop for some reason in the state where it's illegal to carry, there's no definition of how long you can stop before Federal Law no longer protects you.

Check out Legal Heat.

And be prepared to lock up your gun with ammo locked up separately when traveling in a hostile state, and better if not anywhere in your tow vehicle.

Shortest Straw
07-25-2016, 09:16 AM
I have never had to use any of my weapons in defense of myself or my loved ones. I hope I never have to. I know enough about myself that if I need to I can. I respect anyone's decision to not own any firearms. I am not going to judge you, make fun of you, or criticize your decision. I also am not going to use my weapon to defend you unless you are standing right next to me and get to benefit from me fearing for my own life. From the training courses I have taken I do not believe fearing for your life means taking yourself out of a safe situation and inserting yourself in someone else s lesser situation. Even if I see that you are in harms way I will respect your decision about fire arms and stay away. I will however dial 911 on your behalf and then be the best witness I can possibly be. In return I ask that you offer the same amount of respect to me and anyone else who has a weapons permit.

JanAndBill
07-25-2016, 09:54 AM
I have never had to use any of my weapons in defense of myself or my loved ones. I hope I never have to. I know enough about myself that if I need to I can. I respect anyone's decision to not own any firearms. I am not going to judge you, make fun of you, or criticize your decision. I also am not going to use my weapon to defend you unless you are standing right next to me and get to benefit from me fearing for my own life. From the training courses I have taken I do not believe fearing for your life means taking yourself out of a safe situation and inserting yourself in someone else s lesser situation. Even if I see that you are in harms way I will respect your decision about fire arms and stay away. I will however dial 911 on your behalf and then be the best witness I can possibly be. In return I ask that you offer the same amount of respect to me and anyone else who has a weapons permit.

Great response!! In any situation my first response will be to protect "my" loved ones. If "my" loved ones are out of harms way I'll do what I can to help others if I deem there is a decent chance of a good outcome. I have mixed feelings about carrying open to view in public verses concealed. I tend to lean toward concealed.

BigGuy82
07-25-2016, 10:17 AM
Anyone have any input on my earlier question: how do I get a shotgun (forget about a handgun in Canada) across borders when I drive to Alaska?

Lynn1130
07-25-2016, 11:20 AM
https://www.heartlandowners.org/showthread.php/52470-Firearms-traveling-to-Alaska-via-Canada?highlight=get+shotgun+through+canada

See post #8.

BigGuy82
07-25-2016, 11:40 AM
Lynn1130 - thanks for the suggestion. I was able to find a useful link to the RCMP regarding long gun pre-registration. It's too bad that some of these threads are dragged into the PC arena so that the core message is buried. This one had 75 messages to sort through - mostly off topic.

Oh well - at least I did get the info I needed. Thanks!

Lynn1130
07-25-2016, 11:49 AM
One of my complaints for sometime. Most times we seem to be a bunch of old people babbling on about nothing but every-once-in-awhile a good piece of info slips in ;)

While I am on this topic I know that we want to help, especially new owners coming on, but it seems that we answer the same questions over and over, sometimes within two or three threads of each other rather than referring the person to the thread, started a day ago that would answer the question. This creates massive clutter on the site and makes it difficult to search to find an answer. So people give up and just ask the same question again.

I have found many, many helpful threads and have to say that this site has a definite use and benefit but we have too many topics drawn off message by long winded and unhelpful blather.

If we want to blather on about no topic in general then we should start a thread with that purpose but when someone asked a question we should try hard to help and keep that threat on topic. And don't be afraid to send them to "search" or search and give them the thread. Be helpful but not by creating another 300 message long blog. I got blasted in one thread for suggesting that we do just that. But the truth is being helpful is also teaching someone to use resources to be self reliant. Sorry got going and couldn't stop. And I am guilty of getting off topic. But I have answered the thread question in a previous post.

BigGuy82
07-25-2016, 11:51 AM
One of my complaints for sometime. Most times we seem to be a bunch of old people babbling on about nothing but every-once-in-awhile a good piece of info slips in ;)


I am NOT old !!! I am like a fine wine - aging well.:cool:

BusManRG
07-25-2016, 12:39 PM
One of my complaints for sometime. Most times we seem to be a bunch of old people babbling on about nothing but every-once-in-awhile a good piece of info slips in...

...I have found many, many helpful threads and have to say that this site has a definite use and benefit but we have too many topics drawn off message by long winded and unhelpful blather.


Im pretty good at skimming through "blather" and am one of those that have found many "good pieces of information" that has slipped in! As for referencing other threads, I find the "Similar Threads" box at the bottom of each page to be I really helpful. I think the little bits of personal advice dropped into a tesponse is what has created some of the personal connections you can feel on this forum. Oops, sorry. Off topic!

Hope to never have to fire my weapon.

Sandy

BigGuy82
07-25-2016, 12:51 PM
Im pretty good at skimming through "blather" and am one of those that have found many "good pieces of information" that has slipped in! As for referencing other threads, I find the "Similar Threads" box at the bottom of each page to be I really helpful. I think the little bits of personal advice dropped into a tesponse is what has created some of the personal connections you can feel on this forum. Oops, sorry. Off topic!

Hope to never have to fire my weapon.

Sandy

Don't disagree ... MOST of the time. But when a simple question of how to transport a long gun through Canada turns into 75 or so comments about gun control, Second Amendment, Sheriff Arpaio, hunting, etc. - that's a little much. Not the end of the world for me - I just move on to another topic. It's not just this UG - it's universal. But to your point about hidden gems of info - imagine how many of them are lost to those folks who could use them, simply because they don't want to wade through a miasma of "stuff".

And yes, this IS off topic but since I started it, it's OK ::p

Wmnmy
07-25-2016, 12:54 PM
Great discussion my heartland family most know I am LEO and all of you are right the best defense is offense please be aware of your surroundings. You will know when something isn't right or someone and always remember once that bullet leaves your weapon of choice you are responsible for that round weather it hit your target or go beyond it . With everything going on we have to be safe and protect our family and friends. We gather together at rally's and other events for us to have a great time . Other people of opportunity will sometimes try to take advantage of it . Not all people are bad as I have found in my many years . Most are opportunistic. Be safe and know yes I am always carrying and I am always looking when we come together. Please be safe and enjoy your 2nd amendment freedom in our great country.

Lynn1130
07-25-2016, 01:27 PM
The problem with aging wine is that sometimes it "corks" and become vinegar. Present company excluded.

Carleen
07-25-2016, 02:09 PM
I'd be interested in how you do this legally across multiple states. When you say "carry", I am assuming you mean a handgun and not just keeping a shotgun or rifle in the coach. Of course I am a believer that being alive to defend yourself when charged with a felony, such as illegal carry, is very important, BUT - I'm not willing to go to jail because I got pulled over on a traffic stop and the officer saw a bulge in my pocket.

I'm not even suggesting you are doing something illegal - I just want to know how you do it so I can copy it.

I cave a CCL and 33 other states honor Colorado's CCL. They include the states I visit often. I carry during travel but not when at the site. I also have a secure system in my trailer because we travel with my son. There are rules in place that no other kids are allowed in the trailer because I have firearms (regardless of them being behind lock and key). We have a phrase that is used if either my mom and I are uncomfortable that means I need to carry. We take this issue very seriously. I practice monthly and am very capable of safe handling and understand the rules and limitations to my CCL.


Carleen
2011 Ford F-350 6.7
2011 Big Horn 3585RL

BigGuy82
07-25-2016, 04:20 PM
I cave a CCL and 33 other states honor Colorado's CCL. They include the states I visit often. I carry during travel but not when at the site. I also have a secure system in my trailer because we travel with my son. There are rules in place that no other kids are allowed in the trailer because I have firearms (regardless of them being behind lock and key). We have a phrase that is used if either my mom and I are uncomfortable that means I need to carry. We take this issue very seriously. I practice monthly and am very capable of safe handling and understand the rules and limitations to my CCL.


Carleen
2011 Ford F-350 6.7
2011 Big Horn 3585RL

Don't get me wrong here - I am highly trained (military & civilian), highly skilled, have had a CCL all of my adult life, believe in the Second Amendment and believe it is every American's right to carry a firearm. However, as I see it, it's not the states that accept your CCL - it's moving through the states that don't. For instance, I don't care how you secure your weapon, I don't care how safe you are, I don't care what training you've had, I don't care what license you have (unless it's a FFL) - if that New York State Trooper finds out that you have that firearm anywhere on board (coach or truck, locked or not), you are going to be arrested, gun confiscated and charges placed. Yes, I know - there will be a dozen folks telling me that's simply not true, but in fact it is. True, there are federal laws that allow and regulate firearm transport through any state, and you will likely win the argument in court, but NY State has a lot more money than you do so prepare to dig into the retirement fund. As they say, a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich (especially in this state) and with the anti-gun rhetoric that has been whipped up by our Governor, I can assure you that you will be going to trial.

Best advice that I can offer is that if you are going to New England, you can't get there without going through New York. Leave the gun at home or hide it and take the chance that the Trooper won't have the opportunity to find it. Just don't have an accident or do anything that would give him cause to examine the inside of the coach or truck. I'm CC licensed in NY but for my money, I'll leave the pistol home, carry a 12 gauge in the coach (and even that's not without legal risk) and have a very good knife in my pocket - I'm trained in that also. For me, the same holds true in any other state that doesn't honor my license.

God willing, I won't need to use any of it. My wife and I just want to have fun in retirement!

Carleen
07-25-2016, 04:27 PM
Don't get me wrong here - I am highly trained (military & civilian), highly skilled, have had a CCL all of my adult life, believe in the Second Amendment and believe it is every American's right to carry a firearm. However, as I see it, it's not the states that accept your CCL - it's moving through the states that don't. For instance, I don't care how you secure your weapon, I don't care how safe you are, I don't care what training you've had, I don't care what license you have (unless it's a FFL) - if that New York State Trooper finds out that you have that firearm anywhere on board (coach or truck, locked or not), you are going to be arrested, gun confiscated and charges placed. Yes, I know - there will be a dozen folks telling me that's simply not true, but in fact it is. True, there are federal laws that allow and regulate firearm transport through any state, and you will likely win the argument in court, but NY State has a lot more money than you do so prepare to dig into the retirement fund. As they say, a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich (especially in this state) and with the anti-gun rhetoric that has been whipped up by our Governor, I can assure you that you will be going to trial.

Best advice that I can offer is that if you are going to New England, you can't get there without going through New York. Leave the gun at home or hide it and take the chance that the Trooper won't have the opportunity to find it. Just don't have an accident or do anything that would give him cause to examine the inside of the coach or truck. I'm CC licensed in NY but for my money, I'll leave the pistol home, carry a 12 gauge in the coach (and even that's not without legal risk) and have a very good knife in my pocket - I'm trained in that also. For me, the same holds true in any other state that doesn't honor my license.

God willing, I won't need to use any of it. My wife and I just want to have fun in retirement!

That is the hard part with the north east. So many states don't allow it. Luckily I don't travel there because I stick to the "Wild West" where most all states accept the Colorado CCL. I think I would rely on my dog more if I traveled east. You are right- leave the guns at home- not worth the risk!


Carleen
2011 Ford F-350 6.7
2011 Big Horn 3585RL

BigGuy82
07-25-2016, 04:32 PM
That is the hard part with the north east. So many states don't allow it. Luckily I don't travel there because I stick to the "Wild West" where most all states accept the Colorado CCL. I think I would rely on my dog more if I traveled east. You are right- leave the guns at home- not worth the risk!


Carleen
2011 Ford F-350 6.7
2011 Big Horn 3585RL


It's really lovely up here - if you can get past the politics!

I live in New York's Finger Lakes Region - very beautiful and some pretty good wine also! You should give it a try sometime.

Lynn1130
07-25-2016, 04:46 PM
http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

Up-State is not NYC. Spent a Summer when I was in HS with my second cousins in Sempronius and fished many of the lakes and a lot of ponds and streams. Made many more trips visiting my uncle and cousins and brought home many a bottle of Finger Lakes wines. A lovely place.

BTW, on the above map. Click on your state and you will see all of the states that your CC is honored.

kowAlski631
07-25-2016, 05:15 PM
We hope we're never in a situation where we have to fire our weapons. But we would not hesitate to do so to prevent death to ourselves.

CaptnJohn
07-25-2016, 09:42 PM
It's really lovely up here - if you can get past the politics!

I live in New York's Finger Lakes Region - very beautiful and some pretty good wine also! You should give it a try sometime.

Agree, I used to run charters on Lake Ontario (wine country) and deer hunted NY as well, 1960s through early 1990s. I cannot get past the politics any longer. My CWP is recognized in 34 states, I'll patronize those and don't feel missing anything

Relayman
08-03-2016, 08:52 AM
better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Jim.Allison
08-03-2016, 08:15 PM
Don't forget grievous bodily harm.......
We hope we're never in a situation where we have to fire our weapons. But we would not hesitate to do so to prevent death to ourselves.

alexb2000
08-03-2016, 10:26 PM
Really a sad situation when a law abiding citizen, veteran, licensed, trained, and background checked 6 ways from sunday by many agencies, is not a really law abiding citizen. When I was young I never dreamed that I wouldn't be able to travel to certain parts of the U.S. with a gun locked in my RV for either hunting or protection. I am not talking about CC either. Might as well just divide us up into separate countries if we're going to let every state and city override the constitution at will. How is a person supposed to keep all of that straight anyway?

No CA or NE for me either and I really wanted to visit some places in those states.

Lynn1130
08-04-2016, 09:36 AM
States Rights and someone from Texas would be well aware and supportive of that. Texas has threatened to leave the Union more that once over that issue.

alexb2000
08-04-2016, 09:59 AM
States Rights and someone from Texas would be well aware and supportive of that. Texas has threatened to leave the Union more that once over that issue.

Ever wonder why the Texas flag flies at the same height as the U.S. Flag? It is not the only one but a good example.

I am supportive of State Rights, for example if CO residents voted to decriminalize MJ, that's their business.

However, I am talking about a basic set of rights and privileges that have to apply to all U.S. citizens if we are going to have a functioning country. How about if a certain state decided that the emission testing requirements of other states i.e.. CA vs. Fed were inadequate and decided to stop and impound every out of state vehicle that passed through. Then we are no longer a country and that's my point about guns as we pass through certain places as law abiding citizens.

jimtoo
08-04-2016, 10:21 AM
Let's don't get political.

Jim M

Lynn1130
08-04-2016, 10:52 AM
I think this has been cussed and discussed a number of times on here. Basically it came down to, few if any states will stop you just to search for a gun because they have a law that says you cannot carry in their state. Unless, of course, you are silly enough to put a sticker on your vehicle that says you are always armed. Your CC is honored in some states and not in others. I don't worry about driving through one of those that does not on my way to one that does. If you get stopped for some traffic infraction and are foolish enough to have it in plain sight or admit to having one you will probably find yourself sideways with their law otherwise keep on trucking.

Travel into Canada or Mexico with a gun, or even ammo will get you in serious trouble and they can search for no real reason other than you are coming into their country. I, as a police officer, could not carry in states that ban carry, unless on official business and then only with permission of the jurisdiction I was visiting. I also could not carry on a flight unless the Captain allowed me to. Otherwise it had to be checked. Owning and carrying a gun, even with the Second Amendment does not void all local law and regulation.

BigGuy82
08-09-2016, 02:51 PM
One man in our campground in Florida last winter did shoot his gun. Put a hole in his $300000 motor home and the bullet lodged in the next camper. No one in the other camper while the bullet hit the kitchen area.
Cost to repair the other camper was above $3000. Plus his own was not known at the time.
I am Canadian and do stop at many walmarts when we travel. My truck has an alarm and I doubt anyone can break in my unit before I can alarm for help.
Plus we are not allowed to have a weapon unless it's locked up with the amunitions locked up in a separate cabinet, its the law here.

Sent from my B1-710 using Tapatalk



I responded to this a few weeks back but I just came across an article that specifically addresses your comment: "and I doubt anyone can break in my unit before I can alarm for help".


As his his family slept peacefully early Sunday morning, one Norfolk, CA homeowner was forced to defend them from a dangerous home intruder.
Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Sgt. Rene Garcia said the incident took place around 2:30 a.m. when a home intruder broke into a house in the 14400 block of Graystone Avenue.
A woman inside the residence awoke to noises at the front of the home alerted an armed male to a possible break in and called 9-1-1. But before police could arrive on scene, the homeowner was forced to confront the intruder.
“The suspect proceeded to go to the rear of the residence, where he broke through french doors armed with a knife,” Garcia said (http://www.whittierdailynews.com/general-news/20160807/officials-resident-shoots-knife-wielding-intruder-in-norwalk).
At that point, a male resident of the home shot the armed intruder in the torso.
“The suspect fled from the scene, however, he was taken into custody about a block away,” Garcia said.
The suspect was apprehended by officials and taken to a hospital, where he was listed in stable condition, Garcia said. His identity was not available pending the booking process.
According to the sergeant, children were also present in the home at the time of the break-in and shooting. Only the suspect was injured in the incident.
The male resident of the home who shot the suspect has not been arrested. Garcia said detectives are continuing to investigate the incident which he confirmed initially appears to be a case of self-defense.

alexb2000
08-09-2016, 03:42 PM
They used to have a show on where they used ex-thieves to show you how easy they could break into homes, cars, RV's, etc. They by-passed all the locks, alarms, etc. easily often using incredibly simple methods. For example in a home with an alarm the bedrooms never have glass breakage sensors only window and door sensors, so they would just throw a flower pot through the window or door glass and come in a bedroom. I'm sure they canceled it because it was like an online university for aspiring thieves.

Point is most of us have no idea how simply thieves and other wrong doers can bypass what we tell ourselves is good security.

Relayman
08-09-2016, 03:55 PM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160809/5267ebf3cf9e39939af4117cc0c35f95.jpg

in the words of Major Pain Hea...Hea....Hea

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Shortest Straw
08-09-2016, 04:25 PM
This happened last month up by Aspen CO. http://www.9news.com/news/local/man-held-hostage-near-independence-pass-he-wanted-to-kill-us/283547478

You just never know what type of person is in your area of operation.

porthole
08-10-2016, 09:15 AM
And this happened a couple weeks ago not far from us - hi, we're the police and are here to help you

Man shot by state police in 911 mix-up (http://www.nj.com/cumberland/index.ssf/2016/08/elderly_man_shot_by_state_police_what_we_know_and. html)

Shortest Straw
08-10-2016, 10:32 AM
I cannot remember when my last post on this subject was but fortunately I still have not had to pull my weapon in self defense. I also cannot and will not judge or arm chair quarter back the actions of a LEO. I was not there. I do not have the right. Working in EMS as long as I did really wore on me and mostly because of the stress of always having to be perfect, every minute of every day. LEO's are held under an even higher standard than that I believe and that kind of stress cannot be easy to deal with.

Grey Ghost
08-10-2016, 11:56 AM
Not counting Vietnam, about 500+ rounds in the last 50 years or so.

RamblinFever
08-11-2016, 12:27 PM
I was parked on a dark street in Arizona a few years back. This guy approached from the dark and was asking questions as he got closer. When he was about 6 feet from my door he asked "so what would stop me from robbing you right now"? I set the barrel of my pistol on the window ledge and told him I'm thinking the bullet I'm going to put in you if you take one more step toward my door. He ran off into the dark. Not every situation requires firing a weapon to end the threat. You just have to be committed to take it farther if you need to and the bad guy has to be convinced that you will.


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And in some cases is considered "brandishing" in many states.

BigGuy82
08-11-2016, 12:37 PM
And in some cases is considered "brandishing" in many states.

Let me think about this for a while ... fight a BS brandishing charge or stay alive ... that's a tough one ... I'm gonna go for "stay alive". That's why God created lawyers.

Also, do you think the slug who tried to rob this guy is going to file a brandishing charge? What's he going to do - call a cop?

RamblinFever
08-11-2016, 12:39 PM
Perp would probably NOT file a report. Unfortunately some state laws are unjust. I agree with your statements. It's making the right decision for the event.

Lynn1130
08-11-2016, 07:27 PM
God did not create lawyers!!

jmgratz
08-12-2016, 09:33 AM
There is that old saying "I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6"

BigGuy82
08-12-2016, 10:42 AM
There is that old saying "I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6"

Now wait a minute ...

I'm looking at your signaure map. How did you get Hawaii on your RV map?

JohnD
08-12-2016, 10:54 AM
Now wait a minute ...

I'm looking at your signaure map. How did you get Hawaii on your RV map?

That's a long drive, not to mention you have to go really fast to keep the 5th-wheeler afloat! :o

jmgratz
08-12-2016, 12:50 PM
Now wait a minute ...

I'm looking at your signaure map. How did you get Hawaii on your RV map?

If we have been there it goes on the map. I could put on Japan, Mexico, Granada, Dominica, St Thomas, Puerto Rico, Venezuela and Jamaca. But that is too much [emoji3]


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jimtoo
08-12-2016, 01:19 PM
Getting off subject guys.

jmgratz
08-12-2016, 01:21 PM
Getting off subject guys.

Sorry.


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Grey Ghost
08-12-2016, 06:02 PM
On a Dark parking lot somewhere in California one night, a guy approached the pickup while we were pulled over looking at a map and ask me to give him all my money, I just put the barrel of my .38 on the window ledge and said, I don't think so. He replied what are you going to hurt with that little pop gun? I replied it's not the size of the slug you should worry about, but where I'm going to put it should really concern you a lot! He turned and ran away. Most times you aren't required to pull the trigger, sometimes its all about how you react and what you say. Thank God for that!!!

- - - Updated - - -

67-68 Veitnam 101 Airborne 502 "The Duce" AIRBORNE...

Jim.Allison
08-12-2016, 08:02 PM
The idea is NOT to fire your weapon, except in practice, and I assume that all that carry have fired their weapon there. Peace through strength!!!!! They do not call the Colt 45 "The Peacemaker" for no reason at all.

Aktraveler
09-26-2016, 05:19 AM
Download the forms from the canadian firearms commission, pay the $25.00, and don't tell them it's to protect yourself from bears! Canadians love their bears...

Lynn1130
09-26-2016, 09:55 AM
If you are carrying a "Peacemaker" you may want to upgrade in this day and age. The Peacemaker (ie) SAA, Model P, M1873 is a six shot, single action handgun. Great gun but outdated for modern protection.

Peace through superior firepower!

avvidclif
09-26-2016, 10:17 AM
I guess you would call my S&W Model 29 outdated also. But that big old hole in the end of the barrel sure is a stopper.

For those like me whose few brain cells are not working this AM, it's the 6.5" 44 Mag, AKA Dirty Harry Special.

Lynn1130
09-26-2016, 10:27 AM
A little hard to conceal, at least for me. Takes it out of the realm of "concealed weapons".

There is a lesson for those looking for a "concealed" and practical weapon to carry. A .44 Mag of that style besides being hard to conceal for most people, including most women has such a violent recoil that you will probably get one accurate shot before recoil makes it near impossible to recover before being jumped or shot several times by the perp. That is why, while Dirty Harry carried one, most law enforcement did not.

Jim.Allison
09-26-2016, 10:29 AM
LOL, I was focusing on the term "peacemaker" and not necessarily the gun, personally I prefer a shotgun, but in the handgun arena, I use a Kimber 1911 in 40SW. Also a design over 100 years old, but seriously effective and very reliable.


If you are carrying a "Peacemaker" you may want to upgrade in this day and age. The Peacemaker (ie) SAA, Model P, M1873 is a six shot, single action handgun. Great gun but outdated for modern protection.

Peace through superior firepower!

Lynn1130
09-26-2016, 10:49 AM
A shotgun is even harder to conceal.;) Unless you are wearing a Frock coat like the Earps or Holliday.

avvidclif
09-26-2016, 10:56 AM
A little hard to conceal, at least for me. Takes it out of the realm of "concealed weapons".

There is a lesson for those looking for a "concealed" and practical weapon to carry. A .44 Mag of that style besides being hard to conceal for most people, including most women has such a violent recoil that you will probably get one accurate shot before recoil makes it near impossible to recover before being jumped or shot several times by the perp. That is why, while Dirty Harry carried one, most law enforcement did not.


I never said concealed. Sounds like you never shot one very much if you can only get off one accurate shot. Besides 1 accurate shot will usually stop the problem.

Jim.Allison
09-26-2016, 11:16 AM
In Texas if you have a concealed carry permit, you can open carry. If I carried on my person it would be open carry, and the 1911 is easy to open carry, and somewhat easy to carry concealed if you have the right holster. As far as loaded shotguns are concerned, I keep it on the floor board behind the drivers seat for easy access, then I move it to my rig when I set up. I prefer the shotgun because it is mostly legal in all 50 states (in one condition or another). Nothing says "hello" like a 1911. or a 12 ga.
A shotgun is even harder to conceal.;) Unless you are wearing a Frock coat like the Earps or Holliday.

Lynn1130
09-26-2016, 11:37 AM
Firstly, Clif, I was a police department Range Master and certified instructor for many years in most all weapons short of RPGs although I fired one or two of those so I have shot them all. If you like the .44 mag, go for it. I would not recommend it then and I don't now but to each his own. Most can get 14 on target from a .40 or 9mm easier than trying to keep that big 44 on target.

Jim we have open carry here too but I prefer not walking around town looking like the old West. It scares fewer moms and kids and gets fewer bad looks from business owners.

marcortez
09-26-2016, 12:01 PM
This poster is armed, trained (retired LE) and willing to take your life, if you mean me or my loved ones harm.

And for crying out loud.......when LE tells you to put the gun down..........PUT IT DOWN.

Jim.Allison
09-26-2016, 12:03 PM
Jim we have open carry here too but I prefer not walking around town looking like the old West. It scares fewer moms and kids and gets fewer bad looks from business owners.

It's moot for me because I do not carry in public anyway. Even with the condition of our society the chances that I will need a side arm are so remote, there are other more protective actions I can take to maximize my safety. In fact IMHO, pepper spray is probably more effective for a larger number of threats than one will encounter, except a direct threat form an armed subject. If you chance to get involved in an altercation, it is most likely that it will fall short of the need for "deadly force", it is for this reason that I carry Sabre tactical "blue face" pepper spray. They can then follow me out to my rig, where I have the ultimate solutions waiting.

Holoholo
10-05-2016, 04:33 PM
We live in Texas I carry a Baretta FS 9mm in the truck and move it to the trailer at night. Yes we both shoot regularly to keep proficient. Nothing worse than someone fumbling with a gun not familar with. Seriously do NOT want to actually shoot someone so first shots will be in the ground hoping the noise alone will make them stop and think. We also have pepper spray, the guns are backup However a Vietnam vet so more than willing if family is seriously threatened. Just my thoughts.

jwcox
10-12-2016, 09:50 PM
I am from Arizona and have a CWP but that is not required in AZ. I shoot my Sig as often as I can to maintain my ability. Have not ever had to use it while out hiking with my dogs. Thank goodness

RamblinFever
03-29-2017, 08:47 PM
We live in Texas I carry a Baretta FS 9mm in the truck and move it to the trailer at night. Yes we both shoot regularly to keep proficient. Nothing worse than someone fumbling with a gun not familar with. Seriously do NOT want to actually shoot someone so first shots will be in the ground hoping the noise alone will make them stop and think. We also have pepper spray, the guns are backup However a Vietnam vet so more than willing if family is seriously threatened. Just my thoughts.
After attending a CHL class, warning shots are not a good thing. Any altercation can then reflect negative back to you. Somewhat like showing your weapon to the bad guy to discourage him and then you get charged with brandishing. This just shows you how jacked up things are here in CA.

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CaptnJohn
03-29-2017, 10:02 PM
After attending a CHL class, warning shots are not a good thing. Any altercation can then reflect negative back to you. Somewhat like showing your weapon to the bad guy to discourage him and then you get charged with brandishing. This just shows you how jacked up things are here in CA.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Not just CA, many places. I have a short list of states I have no desire to visit and CA is on it.

I strongly agree with your comment on warning shots or pulling a weapon. No one will ever know I carry unless it is required to stop a threat. At that time they may see it a second before I fire.

BigGuy82
03-29-2017, 10:13 PM
After attending a CHL class, warning shots are not a good thing. Any altercation can then reflect negative back to you. Somewhat like showing your weapon to the bad guy to discourage him and then you get charged with brandishing. This just shows you how jacked up things are here in CA.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Not to mention the fact that you are giving the perp additional time to harm you. I suggest you get some really good handgun training or don't carry the weapon. Improper use is often more dangerous than not having the weapon. And if you do get good training and are in the unfortunate position of having to use it to defend yourself, don't try any of that " wounding in the leg" nonsense - double tap center of mass. Regarding the fear of legal action, my philosophy is defend yourself to the absolute maximum and let the lawyers argue it later on - at least you'll be alive to argue it.

Finally, here's some additional protection. Join the USCCA. (United States Concealed Carry Association). They can help you learn much more about this subject AND they sell legal defense insurance in case you ever find yourself in court for legally protecting yourself.

farsidefan1
04-19-2017, 09:44 PM
Not to mention the fact that you are giving the perp additional time to harm you. I suggest you get some really good handgun training or don't carry the weapon. Improper use is often more dangerous than not having the weapon. And if you do get good training and are in the unfortunate position of having to use it to defend yourself, don't try any of that " wounding in the leg" nonsense - double tap center of mass. Regarding the fear of legal action, my philosophy is defend yourself to the absolute maximum and let the lawyers argue it later on - at least you'll be alive to argue it.

Finally, here's some additional protection. Join the USCCA. (United States Concealed Carry Association). They can help you learn much more about this subject AND they sell legal defense insurance in case you ever find yourself in court for legally protecting yourself.

First to answer the question I shoot a couple hundred rounds twice a week through a variety of Glocks, a Ruger and a 1911. I've had a lot of training. I'm a member of USCCA. I have a Utah ccp so I'm good to go in most the areas I want to travel through. I'm going to add NV non resident clearing up NM and MN. That leaves Oregon where I have grandkids and California where I have friends

Now to my question. I read through 8 pages of this thread and still am wondering, If the guns are stashed under the bed and I were perhaps traveling in one of those 2 states -- Nah, make that just Cal. I'm not worried about nutcases in Oregon. In California and the guns are stashed as I said, do I need to worry? I just got my 5th wheel so this is new to me. I would not be traveling through Cal (which would provide some federal protection) but actually visiting friends in the bay area.

RockwallJDGx2
04-20-2017, 11:11 AM
A few years back I was camping in our Starcraft pop-up camper at Big Bend Ranch State Park in Texas. The park is huge, 311,000 acres and it's on the border with Mexico. I brought a handgun along, just in case. Well in my many years of camping I've heard coyotes howl many, many times, but that trip I had coyotes PANTING right outside my bed!!! So all that was between me and the coyote was a thin layer of fabric! I had my pistol under my pillow but thankfully I didn't need it. Although we have a TT now I still carry it, just in case.

cookie
04-20-2017, 11:32 AM
Now to my question. In California and the guns are stashed as I said, do I need to worry?
Bout what? Nut cases or just having your guns stashed.
Cali does not have a duty to retreat, so if you are in your home (RV) it should be legal to possess a firearm.
But since Cali does not honor any other state permit for concealed carry then the only legal place to possess may be in your home (RV).
They also have a State Park regulation that states your guns have to be rendered temporarily inoperable by way of no round chambered, no magazine and cased or stored to prevent their ready use.
Don't put any money on anything I just said. Do your homework.
And why would you want to tell anybody you have guns stashed in your RV???

Peace
Dave

danemayer
04-20-2017, 11:36 AM
If the guns are stashed under the bed and I were perhaps traveling in one of those 2 states -- Nah, make that just Cal. I'm not worried about nutcases in Oregon. In California and the guns are stashed as I said, do I need to worry? I just got my 5th wheel so this is new to me. I would not be traveling through Cal (which would provide some federal protection) but actually visiting friends in the bay area.

Hi farsidefan1,

Here's how I understand it:


I don't think California has reciprocity on your Concealed Carry Permit
My Legal Heat app says that it's illegal to transport a loaded weapon in your vehicle in California.
Magazines that hold more than 10 rounds may not be imported - I don't know if crossing the state line with a 15 round magazine constitutes importing.
If you are traveling from a state that allows transport of a gun, to a state that allows transport of a gun, and have to cross a state that doesn't allow it, Federal law protects you. However, if you stop overnight, or perhaps even for a leisurely meal, the state may argue that your protection has lapsed. And some states, like New York will arrest you even if you comply with Federal law and then allow you to use Federal law as an affirmative defense.
Some people hold the view that your RV is your home and is not a vehicle, and that a search warrant would be required to look inside. But that's a murky area. From what I've read, some courts have held that if your RV is disconnected from the tow vehicle, and is hooked up to utilities, that it's a home. But if you're hitched up and ready to tow, it's a vehicle and therefore subject to many types of warrantless searches.


If you have the gun separated from the ammo and both are locked up, there's a very good likelihood that you won't have a problem. But in locales that are hostile to gun ownership, it's not a certainty.

avvidclif
04-20-2017, 01:00 PM
#1 Don't put NRA stickers all over your vehicles, TV or RV.

#2 If you don't mess up no-one but you will know you are armed.

Tis better to be judged by 12 rather than carried by 6. Meaning if someone finds out I'm carrying the CC laws are the least of my worries.

farsidefan1
04-20-2017, 04:16 PM
Bout what? Nut cases or just having your guns stashed.
Cali does not have a duty to retreat, so if you are in your home (RV) it should be legal to possess a firearm.
But since Cali does not honor any other state permit for concealed carry then the only legal place to possess may be in your home (RV).
They also have a State Park regulation that states your guns have to be rendered temporarily inoperable by way of no round chambered, no magazine and cased or stored to prevent their ready use.
Don't put any money on anything I just said. Do your homework.
And why would you want to tell anybody you have guns stashed in your RV???

Peace
Dave

Thanks Dave, I just sensed a gray area as regards to telling an officer you have a gun. Many states have a "must inform" law regarding possession of a firearm in your vehicle if pulled over for any cause. California is one of those states (big surprise). But if your weapon is under the bed? does that trip the must inform rule? If one does not disclose and for whatever excuse they come up with to search and they find it... Not good. I just wondered if any in here have come up against that uncomfortable situation and how they handled it.

porthole
04-25-2017, 10:53 AM
if someone finds out I'm carrying the CC laws are the least of my worries.



Unless you are a LEO or retired LEO with a HR-218 permit - a non resident can't CC in New Jersey - period.
The odds of getting a CC in New Jersey is about zero to minus-zero.
It is even mentioned on the CC application the the odds of being approved is almost impossible.

Either of the above two violations, if caught will get you mandatory time.

avvidclif
04-25-2017, 05:34 PM
Unless you are a LEO or retired LEO with a HR-218 permit - a non resident can't CC in New Jersey - period.
The odds of getting a CC in New Jersey is about zero to minus-zero.
It is even mentioned on the CC application the the odds of being approved is almost impossible.

Either of the above two violations, if caught will get you mandatory time.

My ex BIL is a retired deputy sheriff and has the HR218. He skipped a bike rally in NJ because they do not honor the HR218. So did a lot of other retirees. He said they will make you prove it's legal, after you get out of jail. I'm not going to find out, I haven't lost a thing in NJ nor feel the need to look for it. If you plan on traveling there and have an HR218 you might contact the NJ State Police and get a reading from them. Or the State Atty General. That's the only state I'm aware of that ignores it.

danemayer
04-25-2017, 05:40 PM
My ex BIL is a retired deputy sheriff and has the HR218. He skipped a bike rally in NJ because they do not honor the HR218. So did a lot of other retirees. He said they will make you prove it's legal, after you get out of jail. I'm not going to find out, I haven't lost a thing in NJ nor feel the need to look for it. If you plan on traveling there and have an HR218 you might contact the NJ State Police and get a reading from them. Or the State Atty General. That's the only state I'm aware of that ignores it.
I think New York takes a similar approach with respect to Federal Law that allows transport when crossing a state. They throw you in jail and when the trial comes, you can use Federal Law as an affirmative defense to get acquitted - after considerable expense and inconvenience.

porthole
04-25-2017, 06:54 PM
My ex BIL is a retired deputy sheriff and has the HR218. He skipped a bike rally in NJ because they do not honor the HR218. So did a lot of other retirees. He said they will make you prove it's legal, after you get out of jail. I'm not going to find out, I haven't lost a thing in NJ nor feel the need to look for it. If you plan on traveling there and have an HR218 you might contact the NJ State Police and get a reading from them. Or the State Atty General. That's the only state I'm aware of that ignores it.

That is not true. NJ does recognize HR-218.
But NJ is quite restrictive, and trying to get accurate information from the State police is nearly impossible.
Just ask a question regarding hollow points ...........

avvidclif
04-25-2017, 09:21 PM
And more than likely they are the ones you will have to deal with. No thanks.

BigGuy82
04-25-2017, 09:58 PM
Firstly, Clif, I was a police department Range Master and certified instructor for many years in most all weapons short of RPGs although I fired one or two of those so I have shot them all. If you like the .44 mag, go for it. I would not recommend it then and I don't now but to each his own. Most can get 14 on target from a .40 or 9mm easier than trying to keep that big 44 on target.

Jim we have open carry here too but I prefer not walking around town looking like the old West. It scares fewer moms and kids and gets fewer bad looks from business owners.


44 is a terrible self defense weapon - large, hard to conceal, heavy, difficult to hold on target because of huge recoil - not much good about it about it unless you like to go to the range and shoot metal silhouettes

a 357 is my favorite range gun for killing paper - love the balance of my Ruger

a 9 is a light, fast round with limited knock down capability - if it's your choice, pull the trigger a lot if you need to use it

40 or 45 are the ideal weapons for SD - powerful, fast, easy to conceal, great knock down power, easy to reload, reliable. My personal preference is a 45 because I used to compete with one and it's what I carried in the military (before they went to 40's). If you know how to reload quickly, number of rounds in the mag is a non-issue unless you are in a "Hollywood" gunfight.

A small 38 wheel gun without a hammer is an ideal pocket gun

I also have a 5 shot 22 revolver that can be concealed almost anywhere - a great little backup. (the tiny derringer type like the NAA)

But hey, that's just my opinion

Lynn1130
04-26-2017, 09:21 AM
You might take a look at the "Hatcher Rating Chart". It gives the person making a decision on caliber an idea of which will do the damage needed to stop the threat. It was developed a long time back but is still useful as it measures kinetic energy. While you hear the term "knock down power" it really is subjective and not a term used as much as stopping power or even more important, kinetic energy. While they might seem interchangeable they are not really.

The choice of a carry weapon is a very personal thing and depends upon the size of the person, the ability to control the weapon, the ability to quickly reload (which should be practiced alot) and most importantly the faith in that weapon. A 45 ACP many times does not work well for women but a 40 or 9 does. So firing a 45 ACP through a magazine creates more misses from a person with smaller wrists than a 9 will. More hits means the target should go down faster but then as we have seen in some police shootings a person on meth just keeps coming.

Choose what works best for you. Try different guns and different calibers.

Just a side note, my former agency has switched to the 45 GAP and it seems to be working well for both female and male officers.

porthole
04-26-2017, 11:46 AM
we have seen in some police shootings




You watch enough videos and what we see is magazines that are emptied with only 1 or 2 hits.

Lynn1130
04-26-2017, 12:21 PM
You watch enough videos and what we see is magazines that are emptied with only 1 or 2 hits.

I can tell you from experience (several) it gets harder to hit the target when the stress level is up. Not like shooting at paper targets.

Grey Ghost
04-26-2017, 03:55 PM
I've read a lot about which gun is best, 44, 40, 45, 9, 357, 38, 22, shotgun, what ever. It's not so much about the size of the weapon as it is about where the round strikes is placed. I was in the military and severed in 1967-1969, I will let you figure out where. Used a M-14, the M-16, the AK-47, a M-3, SW "Hush Puppy", M-3, Steven 77E, a shovel and a number of other weapons, Bouncing Betties are best! I found that if you hit the right spot with a club you are going to do some significant damage and if you hit someone just right they are not going to bother you again for some time to come. However, who ever said nerves come into play when you actually pull the trigger and are aiming at another human being knew what they were talking about. Buck fever when you first shoot at a deer is one thing in it self, however taking another life is something all together different. My advice, if you have never shot at someone else for real, leave the gun at home, it will just get you hurt. You might think you could pull the trigger, however pulling it is something all together different. We were taught that if you thought about firing, it was already to late, you were already dead! Hesitate and you lose!! Leave the guns to those that are trained and are willing to use them. PLEASE

- - - Updated - - -

If they keep on coming, that is the reason for always carrying a second and third clip, right?
You might take a look at the "Hatcher Rating Chart". It gives the person making a decision on caliber an idea of which will do the damage needed to stop the threat. It was developed a long time back but is still useful as it measures kinetic energy. While you hear the term "knock down power" it really is subjective and not a term used as much as stopping power or even more important, kinetic energy. While they might seem interchangeable they are not really.

The choice of a carry weapon is a very personal thing and depends upon the size of the person, the ability to control the weapon, the ability to quickly reload (which should be practiced alot) and most importantly the faith in that weapon. A 45 ACP many times does not work well for women but a 40 or 9 does. So firing a 45 ACP through a magazine creates more misses from a person with smaller wrists than a 9 will. More hits means the target should go down faster but then as we have seen in some police shootings a person on meth just keeps coming.

Choose what works best for you. Try different guns and different calibers.

Just a side note, my former agency has switched to the 45 GAP and it seems to be working well for both female and male officers.

Lynn1130
04-26-2017, 05:44 PM
Points well taken. There is a difference between all out "weapons free" conflict and law enforcement AND private citizens personal protection shooting. I won't go into the long dialog on that as I think I have covered it previously, in this thread someplace.

Just for clarification and proper nomenclature, there is a difference between magazines and clips. The handguns we talk about here have mags. An M1 Garand has a clip.

porthole
04-27-2017, 06:57 AM
An M1 Garand has a clip.

Did you know that New York law has a maximum of 7 rounds for "storage"?
Makes the M1 Garand pretty much a single shot.
Although there are available aftermarket 1, 2 and 5 round clips. That was New York's attempt to cripple firearms somewhat, including America's most famous battle rifle.

Lynn1130
04-27-2017, 09:28 AM
I guess correct grammar is A M1 Garand not An but A just doesn't sound right;)

I have some relatives in Up-State and they don't think much of the gun laws in NY. On the other hand we, in Arizona, are as far the other way as you can go and I am not sure that is good either. A bill in consideration currently will prevent any city, local government in the state from requiring background checks at gun shows, and any private sale of personal property. One extreme to another.

porthole
04-27-2017, 10:11 AM
I guess correct grammar is A M1 Garand not An but A just doesn't sound right;)




But, if you use the pronunciation you can reach a little, no?

An eM' 1 Garand ;)