FIXED! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

putnamg · Jun 12, 2016

We are new to this 2011 Bighorn 3455RL. It has a NEMA 14-50 power plug which plugs in to the RV park 50amp 220v outlet. Had my previous RV plugged in the same plug. From reading the very limited info in the owners manual, my understanding is that the 220 enters the unit on two separate 110 leg and goes to the breaker panel as two separate 50amp 110 feeds. The volt meter says this is happening.........BUT when briefly plugged in to 220 shore power, there is the smell of electrical smoke coming from under the washer!!. The house outlets deliver 220. Everything was immediately unplugged from the park power. Tried running 30amp with a dog bone, but no 110volt to the plugs. 110 DOEST come to the breaker bar, but at a very low amperage. (1.7 amps).
Is this a malfunctioning 50 amp breaker? I am at a total loss for what is going on. Can someone please enlighten me??! Thanks very much.

jimtoo · Jun 12, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

HI putnamg,

Welcome to the Heartland Owners Forum and family. We have a great bunch of folks here with lots of information.

Sounds like you may have a loose wire someplace and need an electrician to help with diagnosing. Please be very careful until you can get some help.

Jim M

SNOKING · Jun 12, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

I am afraid you are into some very expensive repairs.

If you loose neutral it puts 220/240 across all the AC appliances burning up most of them. That is why it is very important to have a surge protector that senses this and shut off power VERY quickly. A friend is at 12K and counting on his MH that got plugged into a park outlet that was missing neutral.

The two 110 circuits are out on phase with each other. Neutral to either hot will measure 110V. From hot to hot will measure 220 volts.

Microwave, converter, TVs, frig, ACs etc all burn up.

I installed the hardwired Prgrossive Industries surge protector in our new trailer. In reality all 50amp trailers and MH should come OEM with these devices. It is also important to plug in with the breaker off and turn off the breaker before unplugging with 50 service.

Chris

danemayer · Jun 12, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

Agree, the most likely cause is lost neutral connection. This can happen at the pedestal, at the shore power cord connection to the trailer, at the transfer switch if you have generator prep, at the back of the main circuit breaker panel inside the coach.

We have some information on RV electrical that may help you measure the pedestal to find out if it's working. Here's a link. This sheet on Outlet Testing shows how to read the pedestal connector.

mlpeloquin · Jun 12, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

If you have a power real the neutral could be loose inside the real as well. If you do, pull out all the cord, open the hatch by removing the screws, then tighten the nuts holding the lugs on. Mine was loose along with one hot. I had the main breaker pop at the park outlet twice with both AC's going. I was lucky. I then ordered and installed the Progressive Industries surge protector. It will not turn power on to your rig or will turn it off with an open neutral, or over an under voltage. It will protect everything in your rig. Once this problem is fixed, I hope most of your equipment is still working. You may find over time that one device at a time will fail do to being over stressed with 220V.

putnamg · Jun 13, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

Thanks to all for the advice. I DO have an RV electrician working on the issue. Looks like I will be replacing some expensive items!

danemayer · Jun 13, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

You may be able to get help from your insurance company.

TravelTiger · Jun 13, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

danemayer said:
You may be able to get help from your insurance company.

Dan is correct. We had a failure at the plug end of our cord, causing a brief surge into our rig last summer. Luckily the Surgeguard eventually did kill the power before it melted. I contacted the insurance co because I was unsure of the damage and in 100 degree heat, it was unlivable until we solved what caused the problem and verified what was ok and not ok inside the rig.

They sent an adjuster who checked out things, took photos, tested many appliances, did some research for pricing on comparable items, took our receipts for things we already purchased as replacements (new EMS and power cord) and then before he left, showed me the amount they would give us. I got a check about 5 days later.

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pegmikef · Jun 13, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

Ditto on what Dan and Erika said. We lost a microwave/convection oven because of a loose neutral on the breaker panel neutral bus. On the upside, it was the OEM Hot Point that really didn't work very well and it gave us an excuse to replace it. Note, that I had an EMS, but the lost neutral occurred after the EMS so it wasn't detected until after the fact. I now have surge protectors on my electronics and the microwave.

carl.swoyer · Jun 14, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

Absolutely install the surge gaurd. I wired mine after the transfer switch

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Rollin_Free · Jun 15, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

I haven't purchased the surge guard for my 30amp service yet but I am always concerned about shore power at parks. I use a circuit tester with an adapter to make sure the power is good before I plug my rig in. I plan to purchase the surge protector and get it installed before our next trip.

I saw a 50amp to 15amp adapter today that is the same principle as the 30a to 15a adapter I'm using only to test the shore power before I plug the rig in but I'm not sure it would provide the same confidence that the power at the pole is good and safe for a 50a rig. Out of curiosity I may buy one of these adapters to test it for solid neutral connection but since I don't have 50a in my rig it's not to high on my list of things I need to do and I really couldn't use it for anything else. I definitely wouldn't be adapting a 50a service down to a 30a plug to connect my rig. That's just asking for smoke problems.

SNOKING · Jun 15, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

Rollin_Free said:
I haven't purchased the surge guard for my 30amp service yet but I am always concerned about shore power at parks. I use a circuit tester with an adapter to make sure the power is good before I plug my rig in. I plan to purchase the surge protector and get it installed before our next trip.

I saw a 50amp to 15amp adapter today that is the same principle as the 30a to 15a adapter I'm using but I'm not sure it would provide the same confidence that the power at the pole is good. I may buy one to test it but since I don't have 50a in my rig it's not to high on my list of things I need to do.

The 50amp to 15amp just pull off one leg of AC. Knowing which leg it is is another issue. A 50amp to 30am adapter might be wired to the other leg, but you can test it by plugging in your 30a to 15a with tester.

Anytiime you use an amperage step down adapter, you are no longer protected by the power pole circuit breakers, as the source has more "horse power" than the cord/trailer wiring is rated for, and you are relying on the breaker in the trailer.

Chris

Rollin_Free · Jun 15, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

SNOKING said:
The 50amp to 15amp just pull off one leg of AC. Knowing which leg it is is another issue. A 50amp to 30am adapter might be wired to the other leg, but you can test it by plugging in your 30a to 15a with tester.

Chris

I agree and was assuming the same. It will tell you if the neutral is good so that helps some knowing the power pole has a good neutral but it doesn't do anything for a bad cable which was identified earlier. The need for a surge guard protector to eliminate the loss on neutral on a 50a service is critical and should really be standard for all 50a rigs.

BusManRG · Jun 15, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

We had a portable surge protector on our class C that we just traded. When I asked the Heartland rep about a hard wired surge protector for the BigHorn we've ordered, he suggested I buy another portable. He said that it had been an option on Landmarks in the past, but it had been discontinued. My take away from that is that there must've been some issues. My previous surge protector was a SurgeGuard, but I've seen a lot of references to Progressive Industries. Guess I need to do some research. I can say for a fact that our surge protector saved our unit at least three times that we are aware of.

Rich

SNOKING · Jun 15, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

I like the PI hardwired with the remote display.

They most likely did not like working with the number 6 wire.

Chris

danemayer · Jun 15, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

BusManRG said:
We had a portable surge protector on our class C that we just traded. When I asked the Heartland rep about a hard wired surge protector for the BigHorn we've ordered, he suggested I buy another portable. He said that it had been an option on Landmarks in the past, but it had been discontinued. My take away from that is that there must've been some issues. My previous surge protector was a SurgeGuard, but I've seen a lot of references to Progressive Industries. Guess I need to do some research. I can say for a fact that our surge protector saved our unit at least three times that we are aware of.

Rich

There are Surge Protectors, and there are Electrical Management Systems that include surge protection along with some other very important functions. Surge Protectors are relatively inexpensive. EMS devices cost quite a bit more.

On the Landmark 365, Heartland was using a Transfer Switch that included Surge Protection as well as some other protective features, but not full EMS function. The Heartland website shows that Surge Protection is still standard on the LM 365. As far as I know, they're still using the TRC SurgeGuard Transfer Switch.

Rollin_Free · Jun 16, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

pegmikef said:
Ditto on what Dan and Erika said. We lost a microwave/convection oven because of a loose neutral on the breaker panel neutral bus. On the upside, it was the OEM Hot Point that really didn't work very well and it gave us an excuse to replace it. Note, that I had an EMS, but the lost neutral occurred after the EMS so it wasn't detected until after the fact. I now have surge protectors on my electronics and the microwave.

So the open neutral was actually in your rigs breaker box. Is there some way to monitor the input and the output side of the power (2 hots, 1 neutral) so if, as in this case, the neutral opened inside the breaker box that it would shut off all the power into the breaker box until the problem is corrected? If the EMS is connected to the input side of shore power then you're only protecting the rig from issues that occurred back to the input power source which appears to be only half protection.

putnamg · Jul 12, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

UPDATE!
Thanks to input from several knowledgeable forum members, an electrician was able to quickly track my open neutral situation to the connection between
shoreline power and the reel connection............a completely missing nut on the neutral line. After a suitable washer and nut were installed,all power is back to normal. What a relief. Many thanks to all for the advise and direction.

mlpeloquin · Jul 12, 2016

Re: Help! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

You may fined over time that the Microwave, televisions, DVD player, refrigerator, and anything else that had 220V even for a short time will fail. Get a Progressive internal surge protector installed. It will protect you from this. The nuts inside the reel will loosen again over time. I put Loctite between the top of the nuts and the threads to keep them from backing off. You will have to unplug and open up the reel every year and make sure the nuts are tight.

FIXED! Yikes.........220 in outlets......among other things

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