Landmark - GFI

adam · Aug 14, 2014

Good Evening

I would like to see if any of the members have a electric schematic for the 120VAC on a late model Landmark?

I have a issue I am trying to sort through that involves my exterior (under awning GFi's) and the Yeti Tank Heater; Perhaps they are related.

1. When I did a function test on the Yeti controls the bathroom GFI trips.
2. When I plug a item like a electric frying pan into either exterior receptacle it trips the bathroom GFI.

It would be easy to troubleshoot something like this if I had a schematic - does anything like this exist for owners? I had the complete schematic for our last motorhome and it sure did come in handy to troubleshoot wires, fuses, breakers, relays and so on.

Thanks
Adam.

Bob&Patty · Aug 15, 2014

You might just have a weak GFI. As far as I know they are 15amps. HL does not have exact schematics...so its a "hunt and peck" thing. Do you know how many amps some of the things you are plugging in draw? The Yeti package is another story. That needs to be looked into by your dealer. You might call HL and ask if there is a dealer or independent service center that is closer to you that can do the repair.

danemayer · Aug 15, 2014

I don't think the Yeti switch for the tank heaters (probably has a separate switch for the water line heat tape) is supposed to be on the same circuit breaker as the bathroom GFCI outlet. The first thing I would suggest is to turn off the circuit breaker for the bathroom GFCI and see if the illuminated Yeti light switch lights up when you flip the switch to ON. Also check to see if there's a circuit breaker marked Yeti or Tank Heaters.

You've got 4 tank heaters drawing around 7 amps at 120V AC. They're probably on a separate 15 amp circuit breaker.

adam · Aug 15, 2014

Great info guys thanks, still troubleshooting the problem.

My appliances do not trip the Gfi if I plug them in at the bathroom receptacle only the outside ones.
As far as the yeti goes, as soon as the switch is selected it trips the bathroom GFI, even with no other appliances on. The red Led does come on though on the Yeti,

just travelling now, so I hope to get a chance to look at this more over the next couple of days

thanks Adam

brianharrison · Aug 15, 2014

adam said:
Great info guys thanks, still troubleshooting the problem.

My appliances do not trip the Gfi if I plug them in at the bathroom receptacle only the outside ones.
As far as the yeti goes, as soon as the switch is selected it trips the bathroom GFI, even with no other appliances on. The red Led does come on though on the Yeti,

just travelling now, so I hope to get a chance to look at this more over the next couple of days

thanks Adam

For the GFCI protected loads (ie outside receptacles), it sounds like a leaky current issue. There are tools to measure leaky current wires. Here is an article by Fluke. Bottom line, the romex or lumex downstream of bathroom GFCI may be damaged.

A wild thought is the Yeti circuit may be in communication with the GFCI circuit, either tightly wrapped together, or both are in an area that the lumex casing on both may be pinched and damaged. Thoughts?

Brian

adam · Aug 16, 2014

thanks Brian,

I think you could be right on the bad wire for the GFCIs outside, I haven't found anything yet though.
The yeti throwing the bathroom breaker is something I don't get ....yet

Adam

danemayer · Aug 16, 2014

Adam,

Take some voltage readings on any of your outlets - not just the GFCI. Hot to Neutral. Hot to Ground. Neutral to Ground. I'm wondering if you have a problem with Neutral on the coach and are leaking current.

adam · Aug 17, 2014

ok,

So I have started to trouble shoot the (un)related electrical issue.

Our Landmark has 18 electrical outlets, 4 of which have the microwave, washing machine, fridge, and Dyson vacuum plugged into them.
Additionally, there is the single GFI plug in the bathroom and it has 5 other receptacles tied to it downstream. 2 in the kitchen, 1 in the basement and 2 exterior plugs.

I have checked all of the plugs for open grounds, open neutrals, and reversed grounds and reversed neutral. They all check ok!? Voltage at all of the plugs is normal too.

all of the GFIs function test ok;

1 of the outside plugs that is switched as "awning receptical" will not carry any appliance, as it trips the GFI.

The Yeti "tank" switch still trips the bathroom GFI - even with the 15 amp circuit breaker off.

Before I book a warranty appointment anyone else have some ideas.?

thanks Adam

brianharrison · Aug 18, 2014

adam said:
1 of the outside plugs that is switched as "awning receptical" will not carry any appliance, as it trips the GFI.

The Yeti "tank" switch still trips the bathroom GFI - even with the 15 amp circuit breaker off.

Before I book a warranty appointment anyone else have some ideas.?

thanks Adam

Does the switched awning plug trip the GFCI as soon as it is turned on? I am wondering if it is possible that circuit may be damaged.

You do not say if the YETI power if fed from a separate breaker or is it ganged off the feed to/from the GFI? Somewhere leaky current (on hot or neutral) is feeding/backfeeding and the GFI is responding.

Have you tried a new GFI?

My next trouble shooting would be to open up the plug and start isolating specific receptacles - ie physically remove the wires from the back of the plugs starting at the GFCI and test for trips. Methodically add one plug back on to the circuit and retest. You may be able to isolate which section of wire/plug may be leaking current.

Hope this helps.
Brian

PS - I would be suspect the dealer may be able to figure this one out, unless they have a qualified electrician on staff - this is an unusual problem, IMHO.

adam · Aug 18, 2014

Thanks Brian,

i will ill keep working on it.

The Yeti has it's own circuit breaker and it's 15 amp. However it must be related to the GFI because of the tripping. I don't completely understand the wiring on the Yeti because the red LED illuminates on the switch when selected even with the above mentioned breaker is off.

The awning receptacle only trips when it has a appliance draw on it. I will try replacing that receptacle along with your other ideas.

thanks Adam

danemayer · Aug 18, 2014

Adam,

Turn off the GFI circuit breaker, and turn on the Yeti circuit breaker, and see if the Yeti switch still lights up when turned on.

adam · Aug 18, 2014

Thanks Dan,

The LED on the Yeti tank heaters lights up with the GFI tripped. Additionally that same LED illuminates even with the 15 amp circuit breaker off.
Is any part of the Yeti 12 volt DC powered?

I would love a schematic......

Adam

porthole · Aug 18, 2014

Just a thought here, before driving yourself crazy looking for an issue, just replace the GFCI.

GFI's go bad and no doubt the device in your trailer is a typical "builders quality" piece.

Get a name brand replacement and then see how things go.

danemayer · Aug 18, 2014

Adam,

You've probably got two switches. There's likely a small rocker switch that sends 12V DC to the heat tape on the fresh water line. It may or may not be an illuminated switch. There's also likely a larger wall-type light switch that is illuminated, sending 110V AC to the tank heating pads.

If the small rocker switch is what's lighting up, that's not a surprise since it's not dependent on either the GFCI or the 15amp circuit breaker.

adam · Aug 18, 2014

Dan, Duane

The line heat and the tank pads both have the small rocker type switches both with the LEDs on the 2015 Landmark.

I am off to pick up 2 new receptacles.

Adam

danemayer · Aug 18, 2014

adam said:
Dan, Duane

The line heat and the tank pads both have the small rocker type switches both with the LEDs on the 2015 Landmark.

I am off to pick up 2 new receptacles.

Adam

Adam,

The small rockers are usually 12V DC. Maybe there's a 110V AC version, but if so, it's news to me. If a rocker is being used, it might 12V DC controlling a relay where the 110V AC is connected.

adam · Aug 18, 2014

Picked up a new GFIC installed it in the bathroom - no fix.
Replaced the "awning" receptacle with a new one - no fix.

Back to the drawing board I guess...

Adam

danemayer · Aug 18, 2014

And when you said voltage readings are normal at your outlets, do you mean you have 120V between hot and neutral, 120V between hot and ground, and 0V between neutral and ground?

adam · Aug 18, 2014

Yes Dan that is correct. Plus I check the receptacle ground to the box and it shows 0 volts too.

I am beginning to think as Brian mentioned earlier, that perhaps somewhere a Yeti tank heater wire is crossing paths with the outside awning receptacle feed and there is a problem. The GFIC does not trip in the bathroom if I select pump line heat on though only the tank pads.

I have still not figured out what powers the small red LED on the 2 Yeti switches. both illuminate with the breaker off and the battery disconnects off.

adam

danemayer · Aug 18, 2014

I have still not figured out what powers the small red LED on the 2 Yeti switches. both illuminate with the breaker off and the battery disconnects off.

If plugged into shore power, the 12V systems are powered by way of the power converter even with the battery cutoff switch in the OFF position. Turn off the Power Converter circuit breaker along with the battery cutoff and the LEDs should not be illuminated.

A regular 12V switch has 2 pins. The hot wire (12V DC) goes to one pin on the switch. The other pin is connected to the device being powered. When ON, the switch connects the wires, passing 12V DC to the device. The ground connection is located at the device.

An illuminating 12V switch has the same 2 connections, but the one connected to the device also has an LED connected to the same pin. The other end of the LED is connected to ground. When the switch is ON, power passes to the device and also through the LED to ground, illuminating the LED.

Landmark - GFI

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