Badly Bent Frame - A Trend??

Gang:
I thought it my obligation to report what MAY be a trend in non-accident frame damage to the group. Both I beams of my frame in the axles area are bent sideways towards the Off Door Side, with the ODS rear spring hangar completely broken off and sitting beside the frame member, the other 5 spring hangars about 30 degrees from vertical, both axles shifted to the ODS, a crack and lateral S bend in one of the I beams. All of this came from no accident or hard impact that I know of. I was simply travelling down U.S. 101 from Central Oregon to Northern California. The first day, after about 3 hours travel, at a campground overnight stop, I noticed that the hangars weren't quite vertical, but I had another 3 hours to go to my group campout in Fortuna. I was in a pretty small Southern Oregon town (Gold Beach) with no RV servicers. So I continued the next segment of the trip to Fortuna, Ca, not noticing any problems while towing. Somehow I forgot to reinspect the suspension before I pulled out of Fortuna for the Thousand Trails in Cloverdale (near Santa Rosa), but again, towing seemed normal, I towed for another 3 hours on US 101, circled around the campground to find a spot, and only noticed that my tires/axles were out of line after backing into a parking space. Then I discovered all the damage noted above.

I asked around here for the best business to repair this type of damage, and was directed to Fletcher Fabrication Shop in Cloverdale. When I went into his shop to visit Roger Fletcher, he very much impressed me with his knowledge, experience, and good-guy appearances. He was working on a couple of semi truck frames when I was there. Roger came out to the campground, inspected my rig, gave me a low and high estimate, and said he could fix the rig. One MAJOR issue we discussed was adding bracing between the two I beams to keep them vertically aligned and true. This isn't done on our frames, but MorRyde has recognized the problem and sells their X factor crossbeam as a remedy. I believe MorRyde also welds in crossbeam tubing when installing their independent suspension upgrade. Right now I am waiting for Roger's workload to clear to get into his shop.

I talked to Progressive Insurance, and their local adjuster. He made a curious comment over the phone before coming out to my rig that "this type of damage (bent frame members around the axles) is more common than you would think". I still haven't heard if they will cover this, and don't have my hopes too high. A curious thing is that the welder (Fletcher Fabrication) has another job exactly like mine with a non-Heartland (but Lippert frame) 5th wheel he is presently working on.

To put this all together, I want people to remember back in the 2005 - 2010 period when we had all of the bad springs breaking and going flat. The problems with the springs were attributed by many to being due to poor quality Chinese steel, and the rampant corruption in China at that time relating to the quality of manufactured goods. It dawned on me that if Lippert was using poor quality Chinese steel for the springs, they may just as well could have been using poor quality Chinese steel for the frame, and maybe that is at least one reason these events are happening. So I want everyone to:

Pay close attention to their spring hangars vertical alignment every time they are down near the tires.
Consider STRONGLY having crossbrace tubes welded onto the chassis with triangular gussets to the frame I beams. These should be at every suspension spring hangar point. This really shouldn't cost much, and will add so much to the strength of your trailer frame.

I made a photo album of all the damage and saved it to a folder on my Google drive. Here is the link: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw3atuhfb0GMNlNrR3ZhM2I4dG8&usp=sharing

I have nothing else to do, and can stay at this Thousand Trails for about another month. The welder will set me up behind his shop building once we get the trailer moved there. I am not mad at Heartland or Lippert, just disappointed. I kick myself for not getting the Independent Suspension upgrade along with my disk brakes at MorRyde in Elkhart last year.

Keep safe, and enjoy RVing!!!

Sorry to see. Amazing that it stayed on the road and you or somebody else wasn't hurt. One more thing on my list to check. Thanks!

This is the repair Lippert did to our 2008 Bighorn several years ago after our spring hanger sheared off...there was a LIP repair sheet that described this repair that was to be done on any unit that came in with twisting/tears on the I Beam. They welded a boxed tube between hangers from one side to the other and added gusseting to prevent any further "twisting" on the bottom of the I beam, which eventually twists the beam itself. Ours was better than new after this was done.

Bill,

Is that a Correct Track II aftermarket install in those pictures? How long have you had that?

I added the cross members from hanger to hanger upon advice from Kakampers. Thanks Kathy.
Adding those cross members is a great upgrade,and anyone that puts on a lot of miles should consider doing it.

Peace
Dave

danemayer said:

Bill,

Is that a Correct Track II aftermarket install in those pictures? How long have you had that?

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I added the Correct Track with the quasi "Mobile Outfitters" crew at the 2013 Goshen National Rally. Their initial estimate was $415, I ended up paying $1400 after yet another set of springs (which I had to have replaced as soon as I got home to Ca., as my equalizers were sitting tilted up against the I beams).

wdk450 said:

I added the Correct Track with the quasi "Mobile Outfitters" crew at the 2013 Goshen National Rally. Their initial estimate was $415, I ended up paying $1400 after yet another set of springs (which I had to have replaced as soon as I got home to Ca., as my equalizers were sitting tilted up against the I beams).

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I'm wondering if the extra 2" increased the leverage enough to cause your damage. Given that the fulcrum point is very close to the endpoint, the mechanical advantage is already very high. Doubling the length of the lever might double the stress forces between frame and suspension.

Maybe it's time to talk with Sonny at Lippert about the engineering analysis done for the aftermarket version of Correct Track and what he thinks about the damage.

For those with factory installed Correct Track, yours doesn't have the extra lift so this discussion wouldn't apply to you.

danemayer said:

I'm wondering if the extra 2" increased the leverage enough to cause your damage. Given that the fulcrum point is very close to the endpoint, the mechanical advantage is already very high. Doubling the length of the lever might double the stress forces between frame and suspension.

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That's the first thing that came to my mind when I first saw the pictures.
It's very possible that is the cause.

Peace
Dave

Sure looks like a correct track problem to me. I would be calling and send the pictures so they can see how they screwed up your rig. Get your money back and install the More-Ryde IS.

Bill, I watched your trailer getting the correct track installed. I recall thinking that no way would I get that done after seeing what yours looked like.

And yes, MOR/ryde IS does indeed get a sub frame welded to the the trailer frame before the IS is bolted and welded on.

I would agree the additional length of the correct track exacerbated the problem. We had standard hangers and from years of backing the trailer the constant leverage on the hangers from side to side is what caused ours to shear off.

Dave...you're welcome...

Bill,
Sorry your having yet another problem. Thank you for the info. Very enlightening to say the least. It will certainly make me more aware, as I now have well over 30K miles on our rig.
Hope they get it resolved for you in a timely fashion. Travel safe. Trace

Sorry to hear the details of your problem. We look forward to seeing you in Temecula.
Best of luck.
PJ

jnbhobe said:

Sure looks like a correct track problem to me. I would be calling and send the pictures so they can see how they screwed up your rig. Get your money back and install the More-Ryde IS.

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At this point I would LOVE to get MorRyde IS installed. The big problem is that they only do this in Elkhart, and I am in California. The Heartland Factory/National Rally 2013/MorRyde trip cost me about $2000 in fuel, campgrounds and motel (motel the week my rig was at Heartland for pinbox frame flex). I have been looking at Dexter IS options with a national network of dealers/distributors, but I can't seem to get the technical advice on correct parts/prices/ordering I need from anyone.
Maybe one of the vendors who goes to Quartzsite in January and sets up service bays may do this.

Does anyone have contact data for Sonny Dismuke at Lippert aftermarket accessories?

Everytime I read something like this makes me more and more glad we got the Mor-Ryde IS system. Mor-Ryde rocks.

From an old post: Sonny Dismuke - (574) 361-9878 (cell)

This is exactly why we had IS put on the Landmark even before we took delivery....wasn't dealing with that again!

wdk450 said:

I am not mad at Heartland or Lippert, just disappointed. I kick myself for not getting the Independent Suspension upgrade along with my disk brakes at MorRyde in Elkhart last year.

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Wow, finally got to see your pics on a computer. You should be mad. Sure looks like the add on correct track was not quite ready for prime time, and as far as I know "sonny" is out to pasture now.
Have you done any searching for others that may have had the same failure?

Contacted Lippert Yet?

Engineering analysis? By the same folks that claimed a 3/8" ASTM A307 bolt could be torqued to 200 ft-lbs?

Gang:
I have been in contact with an adviser at Lippert, who is intermittent in his communications, and his biggest offer of help was to "advise" my welder on how Lippert would repair this if it was brought to them. I have asked for documentation from both Lippert and Heartland on the frame build, along with the Lippert service note on the flexing spring hangar repair, but have gotten the "proprietary information" response on a trailer 7 years old since build. As far as compensation money, that seems out of the question. Lippert USED to have a comprehensive set of service literatures on their website - That is all gone now. I would guess that their legal department advised this.
I just got my turndown form Progressive Insurance, but I expected that - my insurance was for collision damage, not the frame falling apart on its own. I have to say that my conversations with the Progressive adjusters has been very enlightening on the frame flex subject. I was most recently told of an owner of a SOB 5th wheel BRAND NEW with flexing Lippert frame - Lippert offers to fix it; the owner, who just spent his $50k, wants another unit - Not happening!

All I can say is that I would put adding frame cross bracing at the top of my trailer add-on wish list right now. I have previously emphasized having a strong suspension for a strong "foundation" of your home on wheels; now I have to say "a strong suspension and re-enforced frame".