CPAP - DC Power Powering

mlpeloquin · Jan 26, 2017

Andy,

We went to a couple of RV shows this past week just to see what is out else is out there. The more we see of the compitshion makes us very happy we chose a Heartland. I read the specifics on the Landmarks and one of them is C-pap sized end table. This is very important, but an addition of a 12V power for the machines would be an industry first. If you ever used one and lost AC power, you would know just how important a 12V battery source is. We lost power at night several times around the country at night. Waking up trying to breath through a C-pap mask is not fun. I added a deadicated 12V breaker and socket to my Big Horn to solve the problem in my Big Horn. If you advertise a place for a C-pap machine, it would be a real good thing to also to be able to advertise "with a 12V power source that protects you from AC park power loss". Just a suggestion.

Alan_B · Jan 26, 2017

mlpeloquin said:
Andy,

If you advertise a place for a C-pap machine, it would be a real good thing to also to be able to advertise "with a 12V power source that protects you from AC park power loss". Just a suggestion.

I second that!

Cholo · Jan 26, 2017

mlpeloquin said:
Andy,

We went to a couple of RV shows this past week just to see what is out else is out there. The more we see of the compitshion makes us very happy we chose a Heartland. I read the specifics on the Landmarks and one of them is C-pap sized end table. This is very important, but an addition of a 12V power for the machines would be an industry first. If you ever used one and lost AC power, you would know just how important a 12V battery source is. We lost power at night several times around the country at night. Waking up trying to breath through a C-pap mask is not fun. I added a deadicated 12V breaker and socket to my Big Horn to solve the problem in my Big Horn. If you advertise a place for a C-pap machine, it would be a real good thing to also to be able to advertise "with a 12V power source that protects you from AC park power loss". Just a suggestion.

I too need the 12V for CPAP however, my new Newport has a USB plug near the bed table and I think it's 12V. As soon as I can figure out how to do it, I am going to try and change the plug from USB to a 12V socket for my CPAP. Any body have any ideas?

jbeletti · Jan 26, 2017

Cholo said:
I too need the 12V for CPAP however, my new Newport has a USB plug near the bed table and I think it's 12V. As soon as I can figure out how to do it, I am going to try and change the plug from USB to a 12V socket for my CPAP. Any body have any ideas?

USB ports are 5 volts DC. Now, if the USB port you're seeing is a standalone item and not on an AC receptacle, it's likely that it has a 12 volts DC source feeding it and stepping it down. So you "may" be able to install a 12 VDC receptacle next to your USB port using the same 12 VDC feed. That said, PLEASE check the maximum DC current your CPAP's DC to DC adapter draws. It's possible that the wiring and fuse for that DC circuit is undersized for your CPAP's DC power needs as that's not why the USB port is there.

Addressing comments from others on DC power for CPAPs, I'd venture a guess that only a small percentage of CPAP users have purchased the DC to DC adapter for their CPAP machine. These adapters are machine specific and would never be supplied by an RV mfr. The DC receptacle they require would be standard and "could" be installed by an RV mfr. I'm just not sure that asking 100% of Landmark buyers to pay for this is the best thing to do, whereas the CPAP compatible shelf that's in 100% of Landmarks can be used for many things (clock, radio, water bottle, phone etc.).

On a personal note to CPAP users and commenters here - I too am a CPAP user as are are several of my RV friends. And we really appreciate the CPAP shelves in the Landmark. I also bought a DC to DC adapter for my CPAP but have never used it and have never installed a DC outlet for it. Maybe in my next coach.

brianlajoie · Jan 26, 2017

I do not have a USB port. I would be interested on adding a 12v source - mod to my trailer. Maybe a topic we can discuss at the national rally?

I ended up buying a generator because of power outage at a rally.

wdk450 · Jan 26, 2017

I wired cigarette lighter female outlets behind 1 lamp over my bed, and 1 lamp in the living room. No big deal.

Oregon_Camper · Jan 26, 2017

** Disclaimer - I don't have a CPAP and I have basically zero knowledge on their operation **

Having said that, why not purchase a battery backup, that you leave under the bed and plug it into the outlet at the base of the bed. This way the battery is always being charged and will be at 100%.

Then, you can do one of two things
1 - Plug your CPAP directly to the battery, which will stay charged as it is also plugged into AC power. If power fails, you still have the battery at 100% just as the power went out. Will easily last the rest of the night.

2 - Plug a small inverter to this battery, so you now have a 110v power outlet. Plug CPAP into this outlet. Again, you are still charging the battery, so it will remain at 100%....only time it will drop below 100% is if/when power is lost. But you will then have 100% of the battery to last the rest of the night.

This is how I have my computers set up at home on a UPS...so if the power goes out, I can shut them down normally vs just getting slammed off if we lose power.

danemayer · Jan 26, 2017

When there's a power outage I wake up really fast because the airflow stops. It takes me about a second to pull the mask off. And unless power comes back on pretty quickly, the mask probably stays off for the rest of the night. I had sleep apnea for a long time before getting the CPAP machine. Missing a night isn't going to be that big a deal for me.

If it takes you longer to get the mask off, you might explore other mask types. There are some pretty nice nasal pillow designs.

wdk450 · Jan 27, 2017

You might want to look into an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) with AC AND 12 volt DC inputs. This device is in common use in data systems to provide instantaneous switchover of power source in the event of a power outage. Most all have an internal battery, but run time (production of AC power) is limited by the size of the battery. With the trailer's 12 volt DC supply connected, you would have a run time of many days. This device consists of an AC to DC power supply/battery charger, a battery, a 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter, and switchover logic circuitry. Most of these run the DC to AC inverter continuously so that input power source switchover is unnoticable at the AC output.

Gaffer · Jan 27, 2017

wdk450 said:
You might want to look into an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) with AC AND 12 volt DC inputs. This device is in common use in data systems to provide instantaneous switchover of power source in the event of a power outage. Most all have an internal battery, but run time (production of AC power) is limited by the size of the battery. With the trailer's 12 volt DC supply connected, you would have a run time of many days. This device consists of an AC to DC power supply/battery charger, a battery, a 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter, and switchover logic circuitry. Most of these run the DC to AC inverter continuously so that input power source switchover is unnoticable at the AC output.

this is a great idea.

mlpeloquin · Jan 27, 2017

jbeletti said:
USB ports are 5 volts DC. Now, if the USB port you're seeing is a standalone item and not on an AC receptacle, it's likely that it has a 12 volts DC source feeding it and stepping it down. So you "may" be able to install a 12 VDC receptacle next to your USB port using the same 12 VDC feed. That said, PLEASE check the maximum DC current your CPAP's DC to DC adapter draws. It's possible that the wiring and fuse for that DC circuit is undersized for your CPAP's DC power needs as that's not why the USB port is there.

Addressing comments from others on DC power for CPAPs, I'd venture a guess that only a small percentage of CPAP users have purchased the DC to DC adapter for their CPAP machine. These adapters are machine specific and would never be supplied by an RV mfr. The DC receptacle they require would be standard and "could" be installed by an RV mfr. I'm just not sure that asking 100% of Landmark buyers to pay for this is the best thing to do, whereas the CPAP compatible shelf that's in 100% of Landmarks can be used for many things (clock, radio, water bottle, phone etc.).

On a personal note to CPAP users and commenters here - I too am a CPAP user as are are several of my RV friends. And we really appreciate the CPAP shelves in the Landmark. I also bought a DC to DC adapter for my CPAP but have never used it and have never installed a DC outlet for it. Maybe in my next coach.

CPAP use 12VDC. They sell the D.C. power cord for your machine and it plugs into any 12V RV/car appliance socket. Most of us call the sockets a cigarette lighter socket. If you belong to Kaiser health care, you can request a 12V cord and it will be provided for free. CPAP machines come with a 120V to 12V adapter to power off of AC sockets. If you loose AC power and really need the CPAP, you will add the 12V source as I did.

Cholo · Jan 27, 2017

mlpeloquin said:
CPAP use 12VDC. They sell the D.C. power cord for your machine and it plugs into any 12V RV/car appliance socket. Most of us call the sockets a cigarette lighter socket. If you belong to Kaiser health care, you can request a 12V cord and it will be provided for free. CPAP machines come with a 120V to 12V adapter to power off of AC sockets. If you loose AC power and really need the CPAP, you will add the 12V source as I did.

That's basically what I was referring to. Can I convert, (use it to power a 12V socket), the bedroom USB wall plug, (remove the plug and use the wires to install a socket)?

Mrz · Jan 27, 2017

I'm new to this group and have ordered a 2017 Big Horn 3575 Elite and I'm waiting for it to come in. But I could not find an electrical out near the bed. Did I just miss it or is there one near the bed that I can plug my CPAP into.

justafordguy · Jan 27, 2017

Cholo said:
That's basically what I was referring to. Can I convert, (use it to power a 12V socket), the bedroom USB wall plug, (remove the plug and use the wires to install a socket)?

I bet the wires supplying power to the USB will be 120V AC. You need to run wires to the battery or 12v distribution panel for your new 12V socket.

Oregon_Camper · Jan 27, 2017

wdk450 said:
You might want to look into an Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) with AC AND 12 volt DC inputs. This device is in common use in data systems to provide instantaneous switchover of power source in the event of a power outage. Most all have an internal battery, but run time (production of AC power) is limited by the size of the battery. With the trailer's 12 volt DC supply connected, you would have a run time of many days. This device consists of an AC to DC power supply/battery charger, a battery, a 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter, and switchover logic circuitry. Most of these run the DC to AC inverter continuously so that input power source switchover is unnoticable at the AC output.

Yea...that was the point of my post a few up from yours.

- - - Updated - - -

Mrz said:
I'm new to this group and have ordered a 2017 Big Horn 3575 Elite and I'm waiting for it to come in. But I could not find an electrical out near the bed. Did I just miss it or is there one near the bed that I can plug my CPAP into.

On our 3160EL there are outlets on both sides of the bed, toward the front.

RoadJunkie · Jan 27, 2017

Mrz said:
I'm new to this group and have ordered a 2017 Big Horn 3575 Elite and I'm waiting for it to come in. But I could not find an electrical out near the bed. Did I just miss it or is there one near the bed that I can plug my CPAP into.

Yes, there are outlets on both sides of the bed below and towards the head of the mattress platform.

As a general opinion regarding power requirements for CPAP units: CPAP units can draw significant current and simply grabbing 12vdc power from existing wiring and fuse selection may be inappropriate. Power requirements will depend on your pressure prescription and your preference setting for the humidifier heat. There will also be a surge current when the unit is first activated. The humidifier heater will increase the current requirements significantly. Check your CPAP manual, but I would estimate the average sustained current for the operating CPAP, with humidifier, will be around 5 amps, or about 65 watts @ 13vdc. Please consider running an independent circuit with appropriate fusing to operate the CPAP from your batteries.

brianlajoie · Jan 27, 2017

My documentation for the CPAP states the the typical load is 53W and peak load of 104W. What is typical? Is it more like minimal load (low pressure and no humidity) versus max pressure and humidity? I run at 12/20 pressure and a 4 setting for humidity. Without a meter, how can I estimate the load? Is it math like (53+104)/2 or about 80 watts since I'm about in the middle of the settings? There is a big difference in picking a UPS when considering 53W vs. 104W for 8 hours of supply.

Can you also have 2 surge protectors in serial? The trailer's 50 amp one and the UPS one?

wdk450 · Jan 28, 2017

brianlajoie said:
My documentation for the CPAP states the the typical load is 53W and peak load of 104W. What is typical? Is it more like minimal load (low pressure and no humidity) versus max pressure and humidity? I run at 12/20 pressure and a 4 setting for humidity. Without a meter, how can I estimate the load? Is it math like (53+104)/2 or about 80 watts since I'm about in the middle of the settings? There is a big difference in picking a UPS when considering 53W vs. 104W for 8 hours of supply.

Can you also have 2 surge protectors in serial? The trailer's 50 amp one and the UPS one?

Batteries lose capacity with age. If you are taking a long term view, you may want to engineer for the worst case scenario and go with the 104 watt hours rated UPS. This is also safer in regards to a healthcare issue.

There should be no problems with consecutive surge protectors. Usually these are Metal Oxide Varistors (MOV's) across the AC lines, and in fact they can go open without you knowing it, so duplication is probably a good thing.

Jim.Allison · Jan 28, 2017

I run a CPAP with a, industrial 12 volt socket. And yes that socket needs to be well wired, and run directly from the batt on a direct dedicated line. I burned up the first socket I had. The socket needs to fit tight and have a the correct size wire running to it, use a high quality wire and put a circuit breaker on it at the battery source, and keep the wire as short as possible. If you have an EMS you should not be experiencing any surge, I don't think a surge can get past the EMS, and I doubt it can get past the charger/converter, and if you are boondocking you will not experience surge with battery only.

Bookoo · Apr 28, 2017

Good morning, new owner looking for thoughts. Thinking of putting a marine deep cycle battery under the bed along with a 600 watt convertor. Put a cutoff switch between the two so not to drain battery when not in use. My purpose is to get more nights of usage before charging is needed. Trying to avoid $329 battery pack that needs charging almost daily. Please don't worry about hurting my feelings. Frying my system is more important than my feeling. LOL

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