12v Ceiling Lights Only in Living/Kitchen Not Working

[Prafeston]

2012 Heartland Big Country 3450TS

Hello! Newbie here! First RV and trying to track down some issues. Five of my 12v lights in the ceiling in the kitchen/living room aren't working. Bulbs are good, fuses are good, just think I'm not getting power to the switch. Pulled my lower compartment apart to check converter and fuses there. Fuses all seem good but the converter looks like it might have gotten wet at some point. There are signs of water around it and some electrical corrosion. Fan in the converter is turning on and all other lights work except the one under the overhang by the pinbox that has the switch on the side of the fixture. Everything else in the coach seems to be working fine. Refrigerator, microwave, heater, all other lights, and all outlets. I did a visual inspection of the fuses...and I tried a couple fuses in the fuse panel for the ceiling lights and nothing changed. Swapping known good fuses into the ceiling light fuse spot. I did not try new fuses in the 3 slots on the converter itself though.Thoughts?

 

[cookie]

I think you might be on the right track thinking about the switch.
I would pull the switch and inspect it. I have seen more than a few that have over heated and stopped working.
You might also use your multimeter and check if you do have 12 volts getting the the switch. You will need to pick up a neutral or ground somewhere as there is no neutral at the switch.
If that is all okay the I would pull the light that is the closest to the switch and inspect the wiring there as all of the lights are daisy chained together.

Peace
Dave

 

[Prafeston]

If that is all okay the I would pull the light that is the closest to the switch and inspect the wiring there as all of the lights are daisy chained together.

Peace
Dave

I pulled the fixture closest to the switch cause I had heard they were daisy chained. It didn't appear to have any issues and the bulbs were all good. I need to borrow a multimeter and do some more investigating. I'll take another look at the switch itself too. I don't recall seeing anything abnormal with the connections.

 

[lbiffle]

I’m having the same issue with my 2011 BH. I was playing with one of the lights, and let it slip from my hand. The spring that holds it in place slammed the fixture home, and the light came on. I went from light to light, and a good physical shock to the fixture brought each to life. I soon had all the lights working. Two days later they were all dead again.

Any ideas? Flaky connections? I’m terrified to try to get the fixture completely out for inspection, as I find no instructions on the forum. Can anyone tell me how to get the whole fixture out and back in?

Thanks, Les

 

[cookie]

Can anyone tell me how to get the whole fixture out and back in?

Thanks, Les

Les, the light fixtures in your 2011 BH just pull out. That spring you mentioned is what holds them in place. But be careful when you pull them out as that spring acts like a mouse trap and will snap your fingers so be careful.
They go back in by folding the springs up and putting the fixture back up in the hole.

Peace
Dave

 

[Gary521]

Get on the Progressive Dynamics web site. It will tell you how to check the converter. The fuses in the converter are there to protect the converter from hooking up the battery cables incorrectly.

 

[wdk450]

I’m having the same issue with my 2011 BH. I was playing with one of the lights, and let it slip from my hand. The spring that holds it in place slammed the fixture home, and the light came on. I went from light to light, and a good physical shock to the fixture brought each to life. I soon had all the lights working. Two days later they were all dead again.

Any ideas? Flaky connections? I’m terrified to try to get the fixture completely out for inspection, as I find no instructions on the forum. Can anyone tell me how to get the whole fixture out and back in?

Thanks, Les

Another case of flaky electrical connections where I would recommend a spray of Caig Cramolyn DeOxIt electrical contact restorer/cleaner spray on the contacts.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CAIG-Labor...:ShippingMethodStandard!93257!US!-1:rk:7:pf:0

 

[WillyBill]

I pulled the fixture closest to the switch cause I had heard they were daisy chained. It didn't appear to have any issues and the bulbs were all good. I need to borrow a multimeter and do some more investigating. I'll take another look at the switch itself too. I don't recall seeing anything abnormal with the connections.

IMHO...You need to OWN a multi-meter. Harbor freight $0-4.00 depending on promo. This will do at least 90% of your needed tests.

WB

 

[Prafeston]

I just bought a digital multimeter from Amazon this weekend. I live in rural Utah so I can't just shoot to the store. The nearest Walmart is 3 hours away. I'm pretty sure I'm not getting power to the switch so I'm gonna be looking at the wiring back in the underbelly.

 

[wdk450]

I just bought a digital multimeter from Amazon this weekend. I live in rural Utah so I can't just shoot to the store. The nearest Walmart is 3 hours away. I'm pretty sure I'm not getting power to the switch so I'm gonna be looking at the wiring back in the underbelly.

In a pinch, you can solder wires to a 12 VDC light bulb (or LED) to see if voltage is present. Attach 1 wire to a good ground, and use the bare end of the other wire to probe for voltage. In some ways this is a little better than a DVM in that it puts a load on the wiring while testing. The high input impedance of the DVM will show good voltage with just 1 strand of a multi-conductor wire making contact. The test lamp will be very dim, or burn out the 1 wire like a fuse element. If the LED doesn't light, reverse the polarity (LEDs only work when forward conducting).

I once worked on an ECT machine (psychiatric electro shock) where the cable measured OK with my DVM, but the machine wouldn't deliver the proper amperage shock. Doing an autopsy on the cable revealed 1 wire of the stranded wire still intact, the rest broken, fooling my DVM!!! The same thing happened with electric hospital bed controls. Flaky bed control switches would buzz good continuity with the high impedance DVM, but the control still would not work the bed motor relays right. I built a little tester with 1 AAA battery, an 1.5 volt incandescent lamp, and the bed control female connector. A bad switch would give a dim or flashing light of the bulb - a good switch gave a solid light.

 

[Prafeston]

Well the Red/White Kitchen wire and the Blue/White Living Room wire both are dead wires. Not getting any power to them and from the switch they appear to be going just straight up the column toward the ceiling. If I use the ground wire to those two switches to connect to the hot wire on the triple chandelier lights above the sink then they do come on so it would seem like the switch is getting a good ground...just no power to the other two wires. The fuse panel has been checked to and it's fine...so I guess I'm just tracking down two bad wires that could be broken at any point in the walls/ceiling? Uhgg...

 

[Prafeston]

Ok and now I've put a 12v battery straight to the ground and red/white kitchen wires and all 5 lights in the ceiling turn on...including the living room lights that are on a separate switch (the blue/white wire mentioned in the other post) So it's good to see that the lights are working but it's weird they are all coming on from the one kitchen wire. And I still don't know where to go from here..

 

[Prafeston]

Sorry for all the posts but I was confused I guess. Tried again with the 12v battery straight to the wires and they weren't working this time...confused I just kept trying different combinations and it was actually the Red and Blue hot wires that were turning the lights on. They could be Red to positive and blue to negative or blue to positive and red to negative and they would all come on. But nothing works with either red or blue wire to positive with the ground wire to negative.

 

[Prafeston]

Not sure if anyone is even paying attention anymore but I found part of the issue. Looks like my wires have shorted out somewhere. Now just to find out where!!

 

[danemayer]

When you put a ground wire on the switch, you created a dead short. The switch is not grounded and should not be grounded. The ground comes after the load (resistance), which is the light(s). You may have blown a fuse that previously checked out as good.

I believe the electrical path is as follows:

12v from battery or Power Converter--->fuse--->switch---->light fixture (load/resistance)---->ground bus in fuse box--->frame ground.

With the switch ON, and the Voltage lead of the voltmeter on either lead of the switch, with the ground lead of the voltmeter on a known good ground (independent of the light circuit), you should read 12V DC.

If you don't read 12V at either lead of the switch, you're not getting power from the fuse.

If you do read 12V on one lead, but not on the other, either the switch is OFF, or the switch is bad.

If you do read 12V on both leads, you should be able to read 12V at the first light fixture in the chain, again, using a known good ground for the ground lead of the meter.

If you do read 12V at the light fixture, using a known good ground, but the light doesn't come ON, either the light is bad, or the ground side of the light circuit has a problem.

 

[Prafeston]

I put this off for like a week and my wife finally just wanted the wires not sticking out of the wall so I cut the burnt part of the neutral wires off and get a new twist nut connector and twisted them back together. Installed the switch and the lights are working *shrugs shoulders*

Been using them for almost a week now and haven't had a problem.

Did pull out fireplace out though cause the lights don't kick on and I found more burnt/melted wires and the little tiny transformer/converter was black on one side. So not using that anymore.

So I'm wondering now if my trailer got a power surge or something and it fried a couple things like the wires and the fireplace? ...

 

[cookie]

So I'm wondering now if my trailer got a power surge or something and it fried a couple things like the wires and the fireplace? ...

Good to hear that you have been successful in tracking down your issues.
We cannot control what what is being sent to our rigs with things like water pressure and electrical power but we can intercept and make it right.
Water pressure can be tamed by the use of a pressure regulator and electrical spikes or brown outs can be stopped by the use of an electrical management system.
EMS You should have one.

Peace
Dave

 

[Prafeston]

Good to hear that you have been successful in tracking down your issues.
We cannot control what what is being sent to our rigs with things like water pressure and electrical power but we can intercept and make it right.
Water pressure can be tamed by the use of a pressure regulator and electrical spikes or brown outs can be stopped by the use of an electrical management system.
EMS You should have one.

Peace
Dave

We bought a Progressive Industries EMS PT-50X before we ever plugged it in and also have our water on a pressure regulator. We did our research. The previous owner didn't seem quite as competent unfortunately!

 

[mlpeloquin]

Wiring resistance increases when the wires oxidize. Tin plating on the wire will oxidize and apparently it may have. Then again it maybe that one of the wires was not fully seated into the twist nut and created high enough resistance to cause the problem over time. You may need to open up all the 12V twist nuts and inspect them. Somme have found loose twist nut connections including me. The fire place can be replaced. They are not that expensive. I think at least one person on the forum found the company and got replacement parts.

 

[Prafeston]

Wiring resistance increases when the wires oxidize. Tin plating on the wire will oxidize and apparently it may have. Then again it maybe that one of the wires was not fully seated into the twist nut and created high enough resistance to cause the problem over time. You may need to open up all the 12V twist nuts and inspect them. Somme have found loose twist nut connections including me. The fire place can be replaced. They are not that expensive. I think at least one person on the forum found the company and got replacement parts.

Thought about getting a replacement transformer for it, but there are a couple weird suspect things with it and I'd rather not have any issues since we will be living in it and likely using the fireplace a lot to cut down on propane costs. So probably gonna find a new one to put in. Looks like you can get decent ones for around $200.