2013 Ram 2500 HD Cummins issue

[olcoon]

It's sad that these days there are no real mechanics, they are just parts hangers. Hook it up to a computer, computer says it may be this or that, so this & that gets replaced, at our expense. It the issue is still there...oops lets hang another part & see what happens. All during this, the bill keeps going up, and problem isn't fixed. My Grandfather was a mechanic back in the days before computers & all the crap on cars today. Someone would pull into his shop & before they got the engine shut off he usually knew what the problem was.

 

[Randy]

Jim, you have a very serious problem if your oil level is increasing on the dipstick. The Cummins is different from the Ford or Chevrolet engines. They use a direct
injection from the pump to operate the engine. The Cummins uses a low pressure pump that feeds diesel to injectors that are under your valve cover. You have
a leaking injector or connection inside your engine. Get it fixed quickly or you will lose your engine as the Diesel dilution will wipe out the bearings.
Randy

 

[porthole]

It's sad that these days there are no real mechanics, they are just parts hangers.

Roy, there are still some real mechanics out there..... but some of them left that field for more exciting challenges and rewarding careers that offer some security in life.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Thanks Randy, good advice

I would just like to say that I love my truck, and I have all the faith in the world that we are going to get past this. I believe that it is a great combination and I don't think I would buy differently. That having been said;

Its more complicated than that. I was pulling when I discovered it. I was still 500 miles from home so I had the oil changed. And drove on into San Antonio. The next day I took it to the dealer for the service air-filter and CEL and oil level problem. Since I had changed the oil in lubbock Texas, I did not have anything but a saturated CCVF to show. They checked all the systems and they checked out fine the CCVF was hard evidence though. Then we get the "grocery getter" lecture and the normal dilution rate and all the other reasons that regular folks should not own diesels, that RAM obviously does not know about but the service department geniuses do know about. So I agreed that I would monitor the oil level based on the fact that Chrysler maintained what they call and "open ticket" (more service department BS).

This all started after I changed the oil and filter, (the air-filter was not part of the service so the filter problem is theoretically not associated "maybe"), I noticed the oil level problem about 3000 miles after the oil change which I performed myself. Wanting to use the correct oil I bought 1 4 gallon case Valvoline 15w 40 with the proper Cummins spec. I drained the oil and added 12 quarts as directed and placed the 4th gallon on my workbench. IT is still there. So I'm reasonably sure that I did not overfill the crankcase. However, it is said that the Cummins needs to drain for 30 minutes. I do not believe this, but I can't argue the point my drain was about 15 minutes. There is confusion on this topic in the owners manual. Thus, the agreement to monitor the oil on the off chance that I may have overfilled it. The motor runs great, and I do not believe that the oil level is increasing from any idling time, or regeneration process as 2500 miles of the 4500 miles on the oil change was pulling. So anyone saying this increase in oil level is a regen problem because I don't drive it hard enough is not accurate. It might be a regen problem, but not because it is not pulling.

So at this point I'm monitoring clean oil and am not giving up on anything at this point, but I will see how it goes. Fortunately it would take a lot of fuel in my oil to screw up the lubrication and oil pressure in my motor. So I think we are safe from that aspect. If there is infact diesel getting into my crank case then i suspect it is from a bad injector which they say they checked.

It does not take a school boy to figure out that an injector dripping 1 drop every 2 or three seconds will put a quart of diesel into the crankcase very quickly. This motor does not work that hard at towing especially at 65 mph. So there is no reason to have a motor problem due to load, imho. I do think that regen process is more active but even a squirt of diesel on the exhaust stroke should not wind up in the crankcase. It would most certainly be burned on the combustion stroke, so this is a stretch. I can only think that it may be a leaky injector, if it is it will show up soon. The same if it is a seal on the injector pump.

Problem is that service writers do not believe customers. Just like the air-box problem. If they don't believe then they won't act on the repair. And if they did not check those injectors like they said, the oil level will rise again then they will have to act cause the service writer and I both have photos. of the dip stick.

I will do just like I did with the airbox, I will tell them that there is no such thing as a ghost in life or in a motor. If there is a problem then it can be located and repaired. When you call me to come get it, you need to be able to tell me what you found wrong and what you did to fix it, if you can't then keep the truck until you can. I refuse to come get the truck and drive it around the block just to bring it back to you.

Jim, you have a very serious problem if your oil level is increasing on the dipstick. The Cummins is different from the Ford or Chevrolet engines. They use a direct
injection from the pump to operate the engine. The Cummins uses a low pressure pump that feeds diesel to injectors that are under your valve cover. You have
a leaking injector or connection inside your engine. Get it fixed quickly or you will lose your engine as the Diesel dilution will wipe out the bearings.
Randy

 

[hoefler]

When changing oil on the 6.7 Cummins, you must have it at operating temperature, you must remove the oil fill cap, you must remove the filter, and you must let it drain for a minimum of 15 minutes after doing the before mentioned. If you don't, you will have an overfilled condition from the get go.

 

[JanAndBill]

Just out of curiosity, have you taken an oil sample and had an oil analysis done. Simple and cheap alternative to guessing what's in the oil. Most oil distributors, and a lot of the parts stores carry the kits. O'rielly has one from WIX http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...ap?ck=Search_N2233_-1_1359&pt=N2233&ppt=C0164 or you can go old school, pull the stick and see if a cigarette lighter will set it on fire, if it does there's fuel in the oil.

 

[porthole]

Oil level should not increase with any diesel do to fuel dilution. If it does, there is a problem and leaking injectors is the most common issue. Leaking injectors not only dilute the engine oil, a leaky injector will also burn a piston.

Regen - regeneration etc does not dump fuel into the engine. "Active" regen injects additional fuel as a "post pulse" of the injector and should only be during active regen and during the exhaust stroke. The purpose is to raise the exhaust temperature to a level that starts the burn off process of soot in the DPF, diesel particulate filter.

None of us that are towing on a regular basis should have a problem with this. Towing and or highway driving should be enough to satisfy most of the regen process.
Using the truck just as a grocery getter could cause issues, which seems more common with the Ram.

A 30 minute drain should be considered whenever you change the oil. Most diesel engines outside of our passenger trucks require the engine be shut down a minimum of 20 minutes before even checking the oil

 

[Jim.Allison]

Ok guys here is an update. My current oil change was performed at Lubbock Texas at a Ram dealer. It is 389 miles from Lubbock to San Antonio. When I dropped it off at the RAM dealer here in San Antonio, the oil had risen just a little almost imperceptible. But that reading was taken at the service department entrance, not enough time to drain the galleries. Which is OK as long as you are taking your readings under the same conditions each time. I know that at Lubbock the reading was right on the full mark on a hot engine so the little bit of increase that I could perceive is hardly evidence. Soooooo the service manager took cold readings after the truck sat overnight and photographed the dipstick for records. This is part of him working with Chrysler on the issue. This morning I checked my oil after 230 miles since the dealer last photographed the dip stick, it is clearly up about 3/16 or 14 inch above the full mark and certainly out of the safe zone where the hash marks are.

I emailed a picture of my dipstick to the service manager and he is on the phone with Chrysler. Both the airbox and the oil problem are a topic of conversation among them. The airbox problem while predominant topic among bloggers on the diesel forums, seems to be elusive to dealer service techs. Through the magic of words I asked what the symptoms of a leaking injector would be, his response was leaky injector but leaky injectors present drivability problems. So I take from that that once again the service department did not listen to me about my problem. They should have done a leak down test at a minimum during the 30 day that they had it working on the filter box problem.

So here we are with the oil problem and heading back to the dealer. I do not blame the truck. I blame the dealer for not listening to me and acting on the problem with diagnostics that are at his disposal.

 

[1_oldgoat]

My 07.5 Ram 3500 used to throw a code for intake issues for no reason, i would check filter and hose clamps close the air box up and the code would go away, after changi t intake systems the code never returned. I recently hought a new 3013 ram 3500 drw and so far so good, i cha ged oil at 3k and will continue to do so, its cheap insurance, as far as the cc filter, i changed my last trucks every 15k not the 67.5k that was recomended and it was always oil saturated even with lower chcnge intervals, i plan to do the same with the new truck. I did use a couple quarts of oil our first trip towing the fw in 1200 miles but acording to the manual that was to be expected during brake in. I pla on keeping an eye on that, my last truck never used a drop of oil until i lost a piston ring and then it smoked bad so knew something was up.

 

[1_oldgoat]

It is very hard to find a decent service dept especialy for autos, most dealerships pay on a flat rate system, a percentage of time based on whar the manufacture says a certain job should take. I worked in the service industry for close to 30 years so i know how difficult it can be to make money unless you are very good at what you do. The average time a mechanic lasts is 6 yrs, most move on to greener pastures and different career choices. If a rig comes in with what is not a normal routine job, most techs will avoid them because troubleshooting does not pay. Its easier to make a buck doing routine service work. Now having said that, there are exceptions to everything, if a dealership takes care of thier employees then you end up with a bunch of loyal people who actualy care about what they do but finding a place like that is not easy. It seems incompetance is everywhere now days and the norm, people have become used to poor service and lack of customer service. Hate to say it but thats the way it is. I won't go back to my local dealership because of poor service but would rather drive 350 miles to a dealer who cares.
I wish you luck, if your dealers service dept finds your problem please post results.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Update, It seems at this point that the rising oil level may be elusive. By looking at it so hard we may be fooling ourselves. I thought I had a huge increase the other day. Now I feel like I had it parked in such a way that the oil level just appeared to increase. I now park it on a level piece of ground and measure the oil only in the morning before starting it. At that location. My reading are the same as they were with teh fresh oil change in Lubbock Texas. Soooooooooo, it is elusive at this time and cast doubts about whether or not it ever had an elevated oil level. And if It did, there is a possibility that I induced it by not letting the thing drain for 1/2 hour to 1 hour.

In summery the oil problem is undetermined, might have been self induced, is not ruled out as a problem. I still have to pull my rig with it to see, I will be doing that later this month. One thing is for sure, my air-filter light is gone......LOL

 

[Jim.Allison]

Update; no diesel in crankcase. It was all an illusion caused by inconsistent and two frequent oil level sampling.

Occasional sampling when fueling, reveals consistently normal oil levels. Problem solved.

 

[mobilcastle]

Lol
This whole post over not being able to read a dip stick

 

[porthole]

The dipstick for my Ford (the one under the hood) is the worse example I have ever dealt with.
And automotive work was my prior career.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Lol
This whole post over not being able to read a dip stick

I really appreciate you earlier suggestion that it might be coolant getting into my crankcase. That would have not been good.

However, like porthole has suggested; some diesel dipsticks are problematic. If you look into the issue on diesel forums is is not uncommon for owners to have this problem of inconsistent oil level readings, Cummins even once had a series of motors with dipsticks that were too long. Some owners have even drained their crankcase and measured their oil because they have inconsistent readings and feared they had an injector problem, only to find out that they have exactly the right amount of oil in the crankcase. Try as one might, reading the dipstick can be problematic under certain circumstances. I was able to determine the best method by reading a post in a forum where one owner said that he felt like the oil level problem was induced by too frequent oil level checking and variations in conditions that exist at the time of the check, he went on to say that he solved his problem when he quit checking the oil on a daily basis and started checking while fueling. He explained that the location is usually level, the motor is hot, in the same condition, and checking during fueling is a proper frequency. I employed his technique and my inconsistent oil level sampling went away.

It is noteworthy that I have not towed for any great distances since this issue presented. But my upcoming trip will confirm that I'm right and that I have no leaking injectors or other problems. I feel that I have no injector problem because the Motor does not exhibit any symptoms (other than the possible oil level) of bad injectors.

Once again thank you for your input on my problem, and my thread that is designed to help others that are experiencing the same issues that I had (perceived or not). I'm hoping to save someone a lot of time, effort and money. Otherwise I would have kept all this to myself which defeats the purpose of the forum. Once again thank you for your contribution.

 

[Riverway]

Im posting this so that other RAM truck owners can get this solution quicker and easier than I did.

The solution to the Service Air-Filter message and CEL was to change the lower air-filter box. It seems that the servo motor attached to it, that activates the gate that changes the airflow from the grill to under the hood, thinks that the gate has not opened or closed, the signal is interpreted as a restriction or a leak in the intake system. This was not a problem with the quality of my RAM diesel, but more a story about dealers being able to do diagnostics.


The first dealership should be embarrassed that they did not address any of my concerns. They kept the truck for 3 days, examined the filter and airbox, cleared the codes re-flashed the computer, determined they "could not duplicated customer concerns" called me to come get it.

The Service Air-Filter message and corresponding CEL activated within 80 miles of picking the truck up from the dealer. I had to endure the message and chime throughout my 2500 mile vacation with my Big Country.

My dealership should be embarrassed in that I had to tell them that the problem was with that airbox and or the intake system, that it should be inspected from beginning to the end and if nothing was found that Cummins should be consulted. In the end that it what they did. 4 weeks in the shop, July 9 to August 7 to exercise this ghost. Un-real!!!! A customer shouldn't have to tell them what is wrong with the truck and fix it for them too. What good is the dealer?

Once again; the service airfilter message and CEL problem on a 2013 RAM 6.7 Cummins, is a problem with the lower filter box and servo. The solution is to replace the lower box of the filter housing.

Jim, I cannot thank you enough for this post. I find myself a long way from home in Lexington, Kentucky, with the exact same symptoms you describe so well, on exactly the same truck. I took the truck into the local dealer, who were extremely helpful. They re flashed the system as called for by Chrysler, but the issue reappeared within 10 miles of me leaving the dealership. I returned, and asked them to read your post, which they willingly did. They allowed me to park my trailer on their lot, they arranged for a rental car, and they put me up in a Marriott Courtyard tonight. They called a short while later, and found the problem to be exactly as you have described, and they have ordered the necessary parts. What took you months to sort out, took me a few hours because of your very informative posting. I even called Chrysler Techs who had no knowledge of the problem, nor any solutions. Thank you Jim....