2016 Bighorn 3970RD Axle Issue

[Aandaar]

Hello All

So after this last trip out for the Forth of July I noticed along the way that I was experiencing inside and outside tire cupping wear only on the front axle (8500 Miles on trailer). The rear axles tires were fine.

So I figured I may have an axle alignment issue....little did I know I would open a can of worms. So this morning I dropped the trailer off at E&C Spring (I have worked with them in the past extremely good work). Half way through the day I get the call there is an issue with the trailer and need to give them a call.

Ben and his team at E&C had tried to due the typical triangle alignment and found that our front axle was welding in the wrong position from the factory. It is about an inch and half off center line. Since the measurements are off he can not do the alignment. The axle need to removed and positioned in the correct location, then the alignment can be performed.

So question for the group, I know that my HL warranty has expired. But does Lippert cover the trailer chassis for a longer period. I really don't want to shell out the $1000 to $2000 that it may take to fix a factory defect...any comment or assistance is appreciated.

 

[danemayer]

If you're saying that the hangar is welded in the wrong place, Lippert may grant a goodwill accommodation even though the warranty on the frame has expired. You should give them a call first. If they don't want to help, give Heartland a call. They may be able to get you help.

Btw, I don't know why cutting off a hangar and welding a new one would cost $1000.

 

[Aandaar]

Called HL and they sent me a form to fill out with a bunch of measurements. Going to do that this weekend. Update again after that.


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[Gary521]

Hello All

So after this last trip out for the Forth of July I noticed along the way that I was experiencing inside and outside tire cupping wear only on the front axle (8500 Miles on trailer). The rear axles tires were fine.

So I figured I may have an axle alignment issue....little did I know I would open a can of worms. So this morning I dropped the trailer off at E&C Spring (I have worked with them in the past extremely good work). Half way through the day I get the call there is an issue with the trailer and need to give them a call.

Ben and his team at E&C had tried to due the typical triangle alignment and found that our front axle was welding in the wrong position from the factory. It is about an inch and half off center line. Since the measurements are off he can not do the alignment. The axle need to removed and positioned in the correct location, then the alignment can be performed.

So question for the group, I know that my HL warranty has expired. But does Lippert cover the trailer chassis for a longer period. I really don't want to shell out the $1000 to $2000 that it may take to fix a factory defect...any comment or assistance is appreciated.

Is this just one spring hanger or both of them ( one on each side )? Is the $ 1000 - $ 2000 your guess or did the company quote you that? I agree that it should not cost $ 1000 to weld on a spring hanger. The axle does not have to be removed, just reposition the front hanger (s). See if Ben and his team are taking you to the cleaners by asking a few questions.

 

[Aandaar]

Is this just one spring hanger or both of them ( one on each side )? Is the $ 1000 - $ 2000 your guess or did the company quote you that? I agree that it should not cost $ 1000 to weld on a spring hanger. The axle does not have to be removed, just reposition the front hanger (s). See if Ben and his team are taking you to the cleaners by asking a few questions.

That is just my guess based on being in CA and everything is more expensive here. To tell you the truth I don't know exactly what is wrong with the dang thing. Like I said in other post they sent me a form for measurements and want me take photos.

When I complete it this weekend I will post the pictures and the form for all to review. At least the shop that tried to do the alignment is a trailer repair and spring shop and they did not charge me for there efforts once they found the issue.

 

[Aandaar]

UPDATE

I got out to the trailer this past weekend and got the measurements that HL wanted. They have in turn sent those and pictures of tire wear to LSI. Now the waiting game begins....

I attached the info and pictures for those of you that are interested.

 

[MCTalley]

Doesn't sound like a hanger issue, sounds like an issue with where the axle mounting plates were welded to the axle (which in turn means the axle is not centered side to side). Having had a new axle installed on a previous trailer (our first Big Country), I know that the axles come without those plates and they have to be welded onto the axle tube before it is in turn mounted to the springs.

So does the tire on one end of that axle stick out further than the other on the same side?

 

[Aandaar]

Doesn't sound like a hanger issue, sounds like an issue with where the axle mounting plates were welded to the axle (which in turn means the axle is not centered side to side). Having had a new axle installed on a previous trailer (our first Big Country), I know that the axles come without those plates and they have to be welded onto the axle tube before it is in turn mounted to the springs.

So does the tire on one end of that axle stick out further than the other on the same side?

So you maybe correct. Today I heard from HL and LSI said all the hanger measurements are within tolerances.

They have sent me a new form and ask for different and additional pictures of the axles.

Will post that info after I get it this weekend.


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[Aandaar]

UPDATE 2

So I got a request for more information and new measurements and photographs. Based on this information I firmly believe that the spring perches on the front axles where welded in the wrong locations.

I have attached the information that I provided to HL for anyone who is interested or following this thread.

 

[Aandaar]

UPDATE: I am not a Happy camper. HL, LSI, and Dexter have left me high and Dry. They say that it’s my problem and won’t help.

I recently found the install documents on Dexter sight and the clearly say it is the responsibility of the installer to make sure the axles are aligned and that front and rear axle center is less than an 8th inch off. I am looking at about 1 inch difference.

I try to find out who installs the upgraded 8k axles from HL. If HL installed them then I am going to start standing on someone’s desk

GRRRRRRR


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[Bones]

Just a few thoughts. You've measured the axle hangers and they are within spec and don't appear to be off. You have measured the tire distance for Toe at the 10 and 2 position relative to the frame Only one tire appears to be a bit off in your measurements. You measured the center-line of the axles and they are the same. Your pictures show an angle from 9-3 however we can't tell in your pictures where your are what tire your on, which side of the trailer your on.

My suggestions now would be to jack the trailer up and remove all of your rotating components to ensure your don't have loose bearings or a bent wheel rim or your rim for some odd reason was put on crooked. When the components are off you'll want to retake all the measurements again from fixed components welded on the axles. Start with removing the tires and rims. Go around and rotate the brake drums. look for a misaligned brake drum or bad/loose bearings. Take measurements. Measure the tires for warping have them spun balanced and inspected for warping. They should be able to see on the balance machine if the tire/rim is warped because it will look wavy as it spins on the machine. You could have cocked bearings in the brake drum. There are so many things that could have gone wrong that your just going to have to take the time and inspect all of the components and measure.

One other thing people like to do is just throw money at it and buy all new components and hope that fixes it but you'll never know what the issue was. These are just a few suggestions I am thinking of looking at to try and trace your issue down. Good luck.

 

[CoveredWagon]

Just a few thoughts. You've measured the axle hangers and they are within spec and don't appear to be off. You have measured the tire distance for Toe at the 10 and 2 position relative to the frame Only one tire appears to be a bit off in your measurements. You measured the center-line of the axles and they are the same. Your pictures show an angle from 9-3 however we can't tell in your pictures where your are what tire your on, which side of the trailer your on.

My suggestions now would be to jack the trailer up and remove all of your rotating components to ensure your don't have loose bearings or a bent wheel rim or your rim for some odd reason was put on crooked. When the components are off you'll want to retake all the measurements again from fixed components welded on the axles. Start with removing the tires and rims. Go around and rotate the brake drums. look for a misaligned brake drum or bad/loose bearings. Take measurements. Measure the tires for warping have them spun balanced and inspected for warping. They should be able to see on the balance machine if the tire/rim is warped because it will look wavy as it spins on the machine. You could have cocked bearings in the brake drum. There are so many things that could have gone wrong that your just going to have to take the time and inspect all of the components and measure.

One other thing people like to do is just throw money at it and buy all new components and hope that fixes it but you'll never know what the issue was. These are just a few suggestions I am thinking of looking at to try and trace your issue down. Good luck.

great post !

 

[dave10a]

To check for a bent spindle. Measure the tires on the front center and rear center of the tires on the same axle. The measurement should be the same. Also make sure the centering pin on the springs is not sheared and the axle is actually in the center of the spring. Your pictures appear to be a bent spindle if the bearing are properly preloaded.

 

[Aandaar]

Thank you all for your suggested paths forward. But the last two comments I hate to say are geek to me.

So I have a really good spring and axle shop that I have used in the past to build custom suspensions for a couple of my Jeeps.

They are going to take on the task. I would just like to see HL meet me halfway on the cost for the fix which will be less than $700.


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[Aandaar]

UPDATE axle issue resolved.

Ordered new axle from dexter, wait five weeks for it to show up. Shop installed yesterday and performed alignment. Total cost 948.30.


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[JohnD]

UPDATE axle issue resolved.

Ordered new axle from dexter, wait five weeks for it to show up. Shop installed yesterday and performed alignment. Total cost 948.30.

Did this have anything to do with your wheel bearing issue?

 

[Aandaar]

Did this have anything to do with your wheel bearing issue?

No that was different issue.


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[JohnD]

No that was different issue.

Cool!

Glad you guys made it home OK!

Let me know next time you come this way!