5th Wheel Towing and Drivers License Poll

[scottyb]

You need a Class B if you have a DRW towing a trailer under 10,000 GVWR. This is a shocker to most DRW drivers in Texas.

Jim, where did you read that? Class B's are for Any vehicle over 26K or combination of vehicles with a CGWR over 26K, and a trailer less than 10K. Most DRW's can tow a trailer with a GVWR up to 12K with their Class C. Some even more depending on which GVWR packeage they have.

 

[Jacknel]

Why does every response have to include where you are going , where you have been, every vehicle owned, every dog and every wife. Not just your response but most respondants. Why can't we just stick to the topic at hand?

 

[MCTalley]

Why does every response have to include where you are going , where you have been, every vehicle owned, every dog and every wife. Not just your response but most respondants. Why can't we just stick to the topic at hand?

Are you referring to the text and/or pictures below the light gray line in each post? Those are "signatures" that you can set up to be added to each post you make. Some are more, uhm, descriptive than others.

 

[branson4020]

Why does every response have to include where you are going , where you have been, every vehicle owned, every dog and every wife. Not just your response but most respondants. Why can't we just stick to the topic at hand?

How come you don't have a signature?

 

[Jim.Allison]

LOL, I have mine set up like that as a joke.......I should fix it. I try to remember to omit the signature by removing the check in the little box on the bottom left before posting. But I do reference peoples signatures when they are talking about their rigs. Its handy to find out what systems they have, and if I might want it. Perhaps the signature should default to no signature and a check mark if you do want to include it. I think I will add "Class Texas "Class C" license to mine. BTW, my dog died, I have 2 cats named Harry and Lucy, the DW names everything, the TV is Larry (Laramie) , the Big Country is name Big Betty. I dont want to tell you what she calls me.

 

[Bohemian]

Since so many people brought up license requirements

Here is the general state of affairs.


Generally speaking (since each state has it's own variations)

A single vehicle with GVWR > 26,000 lbs. requires a Class B license.

A tow vehicle with GCWR > 26,000 towing a trailer with GVWR > 10,000 lbs requires a Class A license.

Some States offer both CDL and non-CDL Class A and Class B licenses. Some only offer CDL Class A and CDL Class B licenses. Some offer only CDL, but give a restricted test to RV only usage drivers with restrictions on the license.

Some states offer both interstate CDL licenses and intrastate only CDL licenses.

Some states exempt RV only usage from the Class A and Class B requirement.

Some change the trailer weight requirements. Some might change GVWR to GVW, and GCWR to GCW.

See your state requirements.

If you have a valid license in your state, it is valid in every state for your valid usage.

The Federal government does NOT directly regulate drivers license requirements. It only provides strong guidelines to the states. The states do have variations from federal guidelines

Except, the Federal government does regulate interstate trade. Thereby, it directly regulates minimum requirements for interstate CDL licenses. Not intrastate CDL licenses and not non-commercial use licenses.

If your state requires RVs and other non-commercial use to get Class A and B licenses based on weight ratings, and offer no non-CDL alternatives then, yes, you must get a CDL.

Or possibly downrate your tow vehicle to 26,000 lbs. GCWR if available on your registration..

Caution: Some states state GCWR as the GCWR of the tow vehicle, some states define GCWR as GVWR+GVWR, e.g. the sum of the GVWR of the tow vehicle and the GVWR of the towed vehicle (which makes no sense, it's just easy to calculate).

It's very difficult to tell what is regulation or simply guidelines to the public. Often, it is not clearly stated or not stated at all. Often, DMV representatives have no idea about these subtleties.

See your state requirements.

Here in NY state documents say both sides of the argument. Guideline documents say RVs are exempt and documents giving detailed descriptions of the requirements say RVs are not exempt. In NY all Class A and Class B licenses are CDLs.

 

[Jim.Allison]

No state is required to honor the drivers license of another state unless they are a MEMBER of the DLA (Drivers License Agreement), which is an "interstate compact" States that are not signatories to this compact are not required to honor DLs from other states. Georgia, Massachusetts, Michigan, Tennessee, and Wisconsin, are not members of the DLA.

 

[Bohemian]

26,001 or more is exactly the same as > 26,000 (using only integers, as the regulations use)

 

[TandT]

Here's a simple quick reference for a summary of towing laws by state, including reciprocity.

http://www.towingworld.com/towinglaws.cfm


Scroll down to the map and click on a state, or province. Trace

 

[Bohemian]

Here's a simple quick reference for a summary of towing laws by state, including reciprocity.

http://www.towingworld.com/towinglaws.cfm


Scroll down to the map and click on a state, or province. Trace

I have read many summaries from many sources. They can be close, and they can be seriously misleading. For example one set of AAA specifications changed all the references from GCWR and GVWR to GCW and GVW.

One always needs to refer to state guidelines and regulations. Summaries will never suffice. At best they are guidelines. Even the state guidelines are at best guidelines only. They are often conflicting and very often misleading in the details. The regulations can be very difficult to get.

 

[Bohemian]

BTW: This thread is still about what people are DOING. I asked for no explanations, tough they are welcome when freely given. NOT about what the regulations are, or what people should be doing. It is good to know the regulations. It is good to be in compliance. I think it is also extremely valuable to understand what people are actually doing. No criticism is offered by me. Though, I personally think it is best to be in compliance most of the time and where compliance is rationally possible and actually expected by authorities. I also note, that if all laws and all regulations were always 100% enforced, we would all be dead or in jail.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Summaries will never suffice. At best they are guidelines. Even the state guidelines are at best guidelines only. They are often conflicting and very often misleading in the details. The regulations can be very difficult to get.

This is true, the Texas drivers handbook is not even understandable as it tries to summarize what license you require to tow a fiver. In the case of Texas you must go straight to the transportation code to see what is actually written. I have a feeling this is why the license requirement are often overlooked when a fiver driver is stopped. The troopers don't understand it anyway. Along with the fact that fiver drivers typically do not present a culture of conflict and are usually operating carefully anyway. We need to keep it that way too.

 

[Bohemian]

No state is required to honor the drivers license of another state unless they are a MEMBER of the DLA (Drivers License Agreement), which is an "interstate compact" States that are not signatories to this compact are not required to honor DLs from other states. Georgia, Massachusetts, Michigan, Tennessee, and Wisconsin, are not members of the DLA.

Fundamental federal law governs over all state law. State law may not ever negate a federal law, no matter how stated or how often it is stated. Nor can state agreements. Also, that the DLA was written to clarify and enforce sharing of data, ticketing, etc. It is my understanding that fundamental Constitutionally based law requires all licenses and other legal contracts of one state to be recognized as completely valid in every other state as applied by the issuing state. That would be true no matter what the DLA says. We also fought a civil war over that point. Disagreements in state laws and agreements between states are settled in federal court. States often disagree with federal laws. They most often lose in federal court.

Article 4 - The States
Section 1 - Each State to Honor all Others

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

This, of course, is always open to discussion and disagreement. Recently we have seen states again fighting this clause and writing laws to not recognize some of other states legal contracts (marriage licenses). The Supremes will not allow states to negate the power of the federal court (their power) and the Constitutional forever.

There is in fact no state that does not recognize the drivers licenses of any other state. They may not. Yes, they will niggle at the edges and depend on the cost of taking them to federal court to keep people quiet about their rights.

 

[TandT]

I have read many summaries from many sources. They can be close, and they can be seriously misleading. For example one set of AAA specifications changed all the references from GCWR and GVWR to GCW and GVW.

One always needs to refer to state guidelines and regulations. Summaries will never suffice. At best they are guidelines. Even the state guidelines are at best guidelines only. They are often conflicting and very often misleading in the details. The regulations can be very difficult to get.

I do not retain a lawyer, nor do I have a law degree. Therefore I will stick to summaries.

I also agree that the least of LE's problems are average 5th wheel owners, unless they are acting in a grossly unsafe manner. Trace

 

[Jim.Allison]

I have gone to the current Transportation code for the state of Texas, so as to provide the most current information.

I have removed my other post so as not to clutter the thread.

I used strikethroughs to eliminate non applicable information and for ease of reading.

I hope you find this useful.


TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC

SUBTITLE B. DRIVER'S LICENSES <strike>AND PERSONAL IDENTIFICATION CARDS</strike>

CHAPTER 521. DRIVER'S LICENSES <strike>AND CERTIFICATES</strike>

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TN/htm/TN.521.htm



SUBCHAPTER B. GENERAL LICENSE REQUIREMENTS

Sec. 521.025. LICENSE TO BE CARRIED AND EXHIBITED ON DEMAND; CRIMINAL PENALTY. (a) A person required to hold a license under Section 521.021 shall:
(1) have in the person's possession while operating a motor vehicle the class of driver's license appropriate for the type of vehicle operated; and
(2) display the license on the demand of a magistrate, court officer, or peace officer.

The above section merely states that you must present the correct DL for the vehicle you are operating, if you are stopped.

Sec. 521.030. RECIPROCAL LICENSE. (a) A nonresident who is 18 years of age or older and who has in the person's possession a license issued to the person by the person's state or country of residence that is similar to a Class A or Class B driver's license issued under this chapter is not required to hold a Class A or Class B driver's license issued under this chapter if that state or country of residence recognizes such a license issued by this state and exempts the holder from securing a license issued by the state or foreign country.

This is the reciprocating provision, If ones out of state license is similar then it will be accepted as an A,B,C.


SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES

Sec. 521.081. CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
<strike>(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or</strike>
(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.

<strike>Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.</strike>

<strike>Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:</strike>
<strike>(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;</strike>
<strike>(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:</strike>
<strike>(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or</strike>
<strike>(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and</strike>
<strike>(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.</strike>
<strike>(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.253, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.</strike>

<strike>Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.</strike>
<strike>Amended by: </strike>
<strike>Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 161 (S.B. 1093), Sec. 20.017, eff. September 1, 2013.</strike>

Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE. A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; <strike>and</strike>
<strike>(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.</strike>

<strike>Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.</strike>







Summery
A typical 2015 F350 DRW has a GVWR of 14,000
A typical 2015 F350 SRW 4X4 has a GVWR of 10,000
A typical 2015 F250 SRW 4X4 has a GVWR of 9,900
A typical Heartland 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel has a GVWR or 15,500

Example #1
F350 DRW GVWR 14,000 lbs
Heartland 5[SUP]th[/SUP] Wheel 15,500 lbs
Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating 29,500 lbs

Example:
Above is a combination of vehicles where the GCVWR exceeds 26,001 lbs, The GVWR of at least one vehicle in this combination exceeds 10,000 lbs(in this case both vehicles exceed 10,000 GVWR). This is representative of a typical DRW towing a typical Heartland 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel.

Since it is described in Sec. 521.081, A “Class A” Texas DL is required.

Example #2
F350 SRW 4X4 GVWR 10,000 lbs
(F250 SRW 4X4 9900 GVWR)
Heartland 5[SUP]th[/SUP] Wheel 15,500 lbs
Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating 25,500 lbs

This example can be operated with a Class C because the combination GCVWR is not 26,001 or greater. The F250 also falls into this category.

The Texas Class B license has no provision for our rigs unless our truck has a GVWR of 26001 lbs or more, and our rig is 10,000 lb GVWR or less.

 

[Hippy]

Well said and explained. All that mumbo jumbo can be confusing.

 

[TravelTiger]

I have gone to the current Transportation code for the state of Texas, so as to provide the most current information.

I have removed my other post so as not to clutter the thread.

I used strikethroughs to eliminate non applicable information and for ease of reading.

I hope you find this useful.


TITLE 7. VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC

SUBTITLE B. DRIVER'S LICENSES <strike>AND PERSONAL IDENTIFICATION CARDS</strike>

CHAPTER 521. DRIVER'S LICENSES <strike>AND CERTIFICATES</strike>

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TN/htm/TN.521.htm



SUBCHAPTER B. GENERAL LICENSE REQUIREMENTS

Sec. 521.025. LICENSE TO BE CARRIED AND EXHIBITED ON DEMAND; CRIMINAL PENALTY. (a) A person required to hold a license under Section 521.021 shall:
(1) have in the person's possession while operating a motor vehicle the class of driver's license appropriate for the type of vehicle operated; and
(2) display the license on the demand of a magistrate, court officer, or peace officer.

The above section merely states that you must present the correct DL for the vehicle you are operating, if you are stopped.

Sec. 521.030. RECIPROCAL LICENSE. (a) A nonresident who is 18 years of age or older and who has in the person's possession a license issued to the person by the person's state or country of residence that is similar to a Class A or Class B driver's license issued under this chapter is not required to hold a Class A or Class B driver's license issued under this chapter if that state or country of residence recognizes such a license issued by this state and exempts the holder from securing a license issued by the state or foreign country.

This is the reciprocating provision, If ones out of state license is similar then it will be accepted as an A,B,C.


SUBCHAPTER D. CLASSIFICATION OF DRIVER'S LICENSES

Sec. 521.081. CLASS A LICENSE. A Class A driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
<strike>(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more; or</strike>
(2) a combination of vehicles that has a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, if the gross vehicle weight rating of any vehicle or vehicles in tow is more than 10,000 pounds.

<strike>Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.</strike>

<strike>Sec. 521.082. CLASS B LICENSE. (a) A Class B driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:</strike>
<strike>(1) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating that is more than 26,000 pounds;</strike>
<strike>(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,000 pounds or more towing:</strike>
<strike>(A) a vehicle, other than a farm trailer, with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 10,000 pounds; or</strike>
<strike>(B) a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds; and</strike>
<strike>(3) a bus with a seating capacity of 24 passengers or more.</strike>
<strike>(b) For the purposes of Subsection (a)(3), seating capacity is computed in accordance with Section 502.253, except that the operator's seat is included in the computation.</strike>

<strike>Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.</strike>
<strike>Amended by: </strike>
<strike>Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 161 (S.B. 1093), Sec. 20.017, eff. September 1, 2013.</strike>

Sec. 521.083. CLASS C LICENSE. A Class C driver's license authorizes the holder of the license to operate:
(1) a vehicle or combination of vehicles not described by Section 521.081 or 521.082; <strike>and</strike>
<strike>(2) a vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating of less than 26,001 pounds towing a farm trailer with a gross vehicle weight rating that is not more than 20,000 pounds.</strike>

<strike>Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.</strike>







Summery
A typical 2015 F350 DRW has a GVWR of 14,000
A typical 2015 F350 SRW 4X4 has a GVWR of 10,000
A typical 2015 F250 SRW 4X4 has a GVWR of 9,900
A typical Heartland 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel has a GVWR or 15,500

Example #1
F350 DRW GVWR 14,000 lbs
Heartland 5[SUP]th[/SUP] Wheel 15,500 lbs
Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating 29,500 lbs

Example:
Above is a combination of vehicles where the GCVWR exceeds 26,001 lbs, The GVWR of at least one vehicle in this combination exceeds 10,000 lbs(in this case both vehicles exceed 10,000 GVWR). This is representative of a typical DRW towing a typical Heartland 5[SUP]th[/SUP] wheel.

Since it is described in Sec. 521.081, A “Class A” Texas DL is required.

Example #2
F350 SRW 4X4 GVWR 10,000 lbs
(F250 SRW 4X4 9900 GVWR)
Heartland 5[SUP]th[/SUP] Wheel 15,500 lbs
Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating 25,500 lbs

This example can be operated with a Class C because the combination GCVWR is not 26,001 or greater. The F250 also falls into this category.

The Texas Class B license has no provision for our rigs unless our truck has a GVWR of 26001 lbs or more, and our rig is 10,000 lb GVWR or less.

Thanks, that helps us Texans. In our case truck + fiver are under 26001, even though fiver is over 10000. DW has a class B for work. I'd be curious why the class B, which lets him drive a bus full of kids, would not let him pull a fiver combo over 26001.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SilverRhino]

In Texas I was "legal" with a Class C license with my one ton Dodge and BC, but just barely. When I upgraded to the Sport Chassis of course I was required to obtain the Class A non CDL. In Texas if you have a one ton dually and a BC, Bighorn, Cyclone or Landmark you will im most cases need the Class A.

For what it's worth, I found the process of studying for the Class A test to be a enlightening experience, especially since I needed to take the air brake endorsement. It never hurts to refresh what we already know and to learn something new. Another issue to consider is insurance.....If in an accident and you do not have the proper license to cover your vehicle it could pose a problem.

Off the subject....but in Texas, if you are running any kind of business out of a Motorhome, it's trailer or any other RV.....Your rig is considered a commercial vehicle and then you are required to have a CDL. Examples:.... Running a sign shop at rallies or campgrounds out of your toy hauler or even selling Mary Kay out of the rig. Head of DPS for our area related to me a couple of issues like this that they fined people for these activities.

 

[Jim.Allison]

Commercial activity incidental to your trip is not commercial activity. If your trip is to conduct commercial activity then it is a commercial trip. Even then it is not likely you are engaged in commercial activity. There are factory representatives, and sales people, and real estate agents all over the united states who do not have a commercial license who are specifically driving to conduct business with a C non commercial. And Texas law specifically exempts commercial activity incidental the the purpose of the trip from commercial licensing. You might be cited, but a citation like that could be easily won. People who pull horse trailers to competitions for award money are engaged in commercial activity and do not have commercial DL.

An example of commercial activity might be a man and woman who haul inventory from show to show and carry it in the basement of their rig. But like I said the purpose of the trip has to be substantially commercial in order to be required to have a CDL, in Texas anyway. You are not in violation of Commercial driving laws if you are hauling tools of your trade, and making and selling wood carvings at RV road shows.

In Texas I was "legal" with a Class C license with my one ton Dodge and BC, but just barely. When I upgraded to the Sport Chassis of course I was required to obtain the Class A non CDL. In Texas if you have a one ton dually and a BC, Bighorn, Cyclone or Landmark you will im most cases need the Class A.

For what it's worth, I found the process of studying for the Class A test to be a enlightening experience, especially since I needed to take the air brake endorsement. It never hurts to refresh what we already know and to learn something new. Another issue to consider is insurance.....If in an accident and you do not have the proper license to cover your vehicle it could pose a problem.

Off the subject....but in Texas, if you are running any kind of business out of a Motorhome, it's trailer or any other RV.....Your rig is considered a commercial vehicle and then you are required to have a CDL. Examples:.... Running a sign shop at rallies or campgrounds out of your toy hauler or even selling Mary Kay out of the rig. Head of DPS for our area related to me a couple of issues like this that they fined people for these activities.

 

[rxbristol]

The worst part of getting a Class A non-CDL license is parallel parking the 5th wheel and not hitting the curb.