5th Wheel Towing Guide Mystery

[Thadandrachelb]

I'm planning to buy a Cyclone 3950. Don't yet have a tow vehicle. Trying to decode the towing riddle. I plan to pull this thing out west, but there's no way I'm getting a semi. I'm looking at the towing guides from www.trailerlife.com, because they show the towing limits for all manufacturers. For example, here is the 2006 towing guide. (I'm definitely planning to buy a used truck.)

http://www.trailerlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Trailer-Life-Towing-Guide-2006.pdf

According to this towing guide there is no such thing as a Dodge 3500 in any configuration that can tow a fully loaded Cyclone 3950 (18K pounds). While I don't expect that my trailer will tip the scales at 18K, I am just using that number as my guide. The towing guide shows no difference in towing capacity for conventional versus 5th wheel towing on a Dodge.

On a Chevrolet, the guide does show higher numbers for 5th wheel towing, but there are still no numbers that approach the 18K.

In the Ford section of the guide, they have a completely separate chart for 5th wheel towing. It shows several configurations for F-350s that are over 18K.

Now I'm not really wanting to buy a Ford, because the years I'm looking into (based on my budget) have the much maligned 6.0 diesel. My preference is a Dodge, and I certainly see that some of you on here and other forums are pulling a big, heavy rig with a Dodge. So here are a few questions for you all...

• I assume that all people using a Dodge 3500 of the mid 2000's vintage to tow a 40 foot trailer are ignoring the towing capacity guidelines that Dodge puts out. Am I mistaken on that?
• Does a 2006 Ford F-350 (or any trucks of similar vintage) really have that much more capability to pull a 5th wheel than do the Dodge or Chevy equivalent?
• Why, according this towing guide, is a Ford able to pull much more when pulling a 5th wheel than when towing conventionally?
• Why can't a Dodge do the same?

 

[brianharrison]

Wow - lots of questions - and very open ended so you will get "tons" of answers.

To answer them respectively:

• yes, they are ignoring dodge capacity guidelines, nope you are not mistaken,
• Nope, 2006 Ford probably very similar to Dodge or Chev
• Ford distinguishs 5th wheel pulling (load transfer right over axles) vs pulling from hitch (load hanging 3 ft or more behind rear tires)
• Dodge can do same.

Only other thing I will say - brakes, tranny cooler, tire load capacity, etc - all have to be figured into trailer tow capacity.

Oh one more - what weight you can pull legally, safely, unsafely - all different arguments.

Brian

PS - Why would you not want to buy a FORD ?:angel: 6.0L are a good engine, if you know what it's limits are and take certain steps --> Link to Bullet Proofing a Ford 6.0L videos by Powerstrokehelp.com

 

[Thadandrachelb]

Brian,
Thanks for the response. I would actually love to buy a Ford for several reasons. It's just that I'm very hesitant to do so based on the 6.0 reputation. I have read some articles about making improvements to the 6.0 to correct some of the design flaws and turn it into a dependable engine. I'm watching the video you referenced. Very interesting videos. This guy is just up the road from me, so his shop might be a good resource for me if I manage to overcome my 6.0 phobia.

If I were to sum up your response, it would be that you think all the three brands can do the same, but Dodge doesn't tell you what it can do in regard to 5th wheel. Ford does. Dodge keeps it a mystery.

 

[waldo238]

That is why I hunted and found myself a 2002 7.3 found one that 2000 miles on it, the guy never drove it so traded it in on Crown Vic for his wife, I love that truck dam thing pulls like nothing else and great mileage even while towing.

 

[mzcummins]

I was told by my dealer that dodge doesn't give a 5er rating cause it doesn't matter what your towing you have to go by the payload, axle ratings, etc., he said you can be way under a trailer tow rating but be overloaded still were ford breaks it down a little nicer for the end user to see.

I don't see how anyone can say a 6.0 is a good engine you just have to fix the problems, anything can be good if you fix the problems, it will cost you thousands and an upward of over 4k to fix it right and still isn't bulletproof. This engine had 77 engine service bulletins after only a couple years and sent ford and navistar into a warranty argument and court battles that eventually ended a 20 plus year partnership after navistar couldnt redeem itself with the 6.4

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Garypowell]

We started full-timing in 1996 with an 18,000 pound 40 foot long 5th wheel and a SRW Dodge diesel. I knew we were over the limits and at the time all the trucks had about the same limits....and my guess they still do. I had opted for SRW since it did allow for the highest towing capacity. DRW and 4WD just lowers the towing capacity. I promised myself I would keep good tires on the truck and drive below the speed limit and figure we'd be OK. Every time we hit an expressway entrance ramp we literally prayed for God to provide an opening because by the time we hit the end of the ramp we might be going 30 miles an hour flashers ablaze. And every time God parted the seas for us! Obviously we have seen a trend towards DRW and even larger 350 and such over the years as people wanted to feel safer and safer. On that dodge we went through 2 sets of rear seals on the wheels....but I did not complain because I knew why....just the cost of doing business. Today we travel with a 14,000 pound rig and our SRW Chevy diesel handles it like it is almost not there. So in some respects there is no mystery....many people operate outside of the limits of their equipment....and I think most do it knowing that fact and live with the limitations and problems they cause themselves.

 

[TXBobcat]

Hi Thad.. Welcome to the forum..

As you can see in my signature I have a 2006 F250. I have had to do a number of repairs but none to the engine... Block, heads and such. Mostly to Alternator, A/C, FICM, EGR Valve & Cooler, Oil cooler...

I had the truck in the shop the other day and was talking to the diesel mechanic. Told him I was thinking about looking for a newer used truck. He told me to look at the Ford 2010, 11, 12 & 13. Stay away from the earlier ones. He said he makes a lot of money on them, but the 11, 12 & 13 are real solid. I believe the newer Fords are using the new engine that Ford built.

My 06, F250 is pulling well, yes I have had to make a few repairs but none to the actual engine. I got my F250 in February of 2006.

So don't scared off by the newer Fords.. but maybe the ones before 2006...

BC

 

[Eddhuy]

I had the 04 F350 with 6.0L diesel. I purchased it used, the EGR died after 4 days and turbo charger was going bad. The dealer sales team promised if I purchased an extended warranty that I was covered so they replaced them both at their cost. Even though I had the extended warranty the EGR valve was not covered by the warranty and Ford said the turbo charger was bad when I bought it so they would not pay for it. But after the dealer picked up the charges the truck ran great with lots of power. I was going to bullet proof the truck but opted for a 2013 F350, huge difference loved the 04, 13 is way better.

 

[happyappy]

I just finished going through the exact thought process as you...trying to find a tow vehicle that with the ability to safely tow my 2005 Landmark; that was within my budget; and even though used, would be reliable for several years to come. I spent a couple of months reading everything I could find on truck options; and talking to everyone who came into the campground where I live part-time about their TV.

I ended up ruling out all Fords. I could afford 7.3 but they are very loud and the chassis they are in are starting to show some age. The 6.0's had too many problems for me to feel good about buying one used. Anything newer was out of my budget.

I ruled out Chevy/GMC because well...the trucks are harder to find and the used trucks I did find weren't especially appealing.

That leaves Dodge which is what I ended up going with. The weight rating bothered me for awhile, but after speaking to many, many people who came through our campground, I finally came to the conclusion that Dodge is just very conservative with their ratings. No one I spoke with had any issues with their trucks that were weight related. Most were even using 2500's with air bags or an extra leaf added. I did confirm that the only difference between the 2500 and 3500 is an extra leaf in the rear spring pack from the factory...Same axles, brakes, transmissions, frames, etc.

After choosing Dodge, I narrowed it down to two options. First was 2005 to 2007 5.9 cummins with a manual 6 speed transmission. These years had higher output engines and the manual transmissions seemed to be more reliable than the automatic.

The second choice was a 2007.5 to 2009 6.7 cummins with an automatic. The automatic in the 6.7 was much stronger and had better reliability than the stick. These engines have problems created by the emissions controls which can fairly easily be overcome resulting in a very reliable and strong engine. The other advantage of the 6.7 trucks is they come with a factory exhaust brake.

I ended up buying a 2008 dodge 2500 crew cab long bed with an automatic. I'm outfitting it now for towing (hitch, brake controller, air bags) and looking forward to pulling my landmark soon!

Feel free to pm me if you want to discuss further. Hope some of this information is helpful in your decision.

 

[DW_Gray]

The Ram 2007.5 and later 6.7L Diesel 3500 automatic dually with the full towing package will be just fine for the 3950! It may exceed the GCWR but will be well under the other ratings. If unsure, consider using the free Before You Buy RV app. The trouble you may have is finding a used one near by.

 

[Tumble Weed]

The Ram 2007.5 and later 6.7L Diesel 3500 automatic dually with the full towing package will be just fine for the 3950! It may exceed the GCWR but will be well under the other ratings. If unsure, consider using the free Before You Buy RV app. The trouble you may have is finding a used one near by.

Hey Dave great site. Whats GCWR? GVW? Prospective Trailer GVWR?(this one I know) where do I find this info.
I know I should know this trying to make sure.

 

[DW_Gray]

Hey Dave great site. Whats GCWR? GVW? Prospective Trailer GVWR?(this one I know) where do I find this info.
I know I should know this trying to make sure.

Thank you Tumble Weed. Look for the

button near the bottom of the pages and click or touch that. Reading the Cautions page would tell you that.

 

[Tumble Weed]

LOL I don't read I just randomly act... Like a tomato bomb.

 

[Bob&Patty]

Tomato bomb??? Thats a new one.....how do they work?? Might be interesting to see one go off.