A little help for the electrically challenged

[Peteandsharon]

Hey Jim,

Unfortunately he did not break it down in terms of material and labor so I can't say what is what. My problem going into this thing was that I was completely naive about the cost of these things in general. Even if they came in at $1000, I would have a hard time cost justifying it. This is a nice-to-have for those times that I have the BH home in my driveway. That would only be when I am getting ready for a trip, coming back from a trip or just putzing around on the rig. Hard to justify $1000 to $1500 for the convenience of turning on the air conditioner during those times. Every once in a while we may get a houseful of guests where it would be nice to pull the rig in and use it for overflow people storage but again........... is it worth that much? At $500-$700 I would have been in. Beyond that....... I dunno. I could certainly do it myself at that price if I had the skills but I don't, so that's a moot point. I like my BH a great deal but I'm not ready to live in it full time because I lost my home to an electrical fire.

 

[itsbeertime]

@Pete: Get a couple more estimates. Electricians are a dime a dozen. Maybe it was one of those "I really don't want to do the job" estimates. With how things are, most people are looking to make an extra buck. My guy works at my Chevy place and came out and did it after work one evening. I could have done it, I know how, but just didn't feel like it. So I was happy to pay him.

 

[Macattack]

Pete
If you are going to install 50-amp service--A lot of people have the misconception that 50-amp service for RV hookups is different than the standard household 120/240 volt service. The hookup is the same to the receptacle, with a 50-amp 120/240 volt DOUBLE POLE breaker to a 14-50R 3 pole 4 wire grounding receptacle. The longer the distance between the breaker and the receptacle, the bigger the wire needs to be. Most would probably recommend #8 wire up to 25 ft., #6 up to 50 ft., #4 to 100 ft. and beyond.In the breaker box you will have the DOUBLE POLE breaker with two 120 volt circuits out of phase with each other,along with a neutral wire and a ground wire. With 50-amp service you have 2 circuits with 50-amp X 120 volts, or 12,000 watts.
If you are going to install 30-amp service,You need to make sure that you install a 30-amp SINGLE POLE 120 volt breaker to a TT-30R receptacle.(This is where some people make a mistake and install a Double Pole breaker and fry their trailer wireing).You will have 3 wires in this application--One 120 volt hot wire, One neutral wire,an One ground wire. The receptacles are made specifically for trailers.Wire size here would be #10 up to 25 ft., #8 up to 50 ft., and # 6 up to and over 100 ft. With 30-amp service you would have 1 circuit with 30-amp X 120 volts, or 3,600 watts.
I hope this doesn't muddy things up for you. Just be sure your electrician knows that the 30-amp service is only 110 volt.

 

[Peteandsharon]

Thanks Mac, Good detail here. My setup is going to be more simple at the receptacle end . The box is a weather proof box with one 50 amp receptacle and nothing else. No 30, no 20, no breaker. Right now I am thinking about getting the hardware myself and hooking up the box, running the wire/conduit into the basement and then hiring someone to make the necessary connection to the breaker box. That's where I get in way over my head. I figure if I provide the hardware and do most of the grunt work, I can get a pro to do that part relatively reasonably. I was thinking about #6 wire but I'm guessing 50-60 feet right now. Maybe that's being skimpy. Might go bigger since that sounds safer. Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to give me this detail.

Take care,

Pete

 

[wdk450]

An Alternative?

Peteandsharon:
Maybe you could justify the $1000 for a 2.5 to 3 KW generator that would take care of your at home needs as well as allowing you to boondock, and which has resale value if you decide you no longer need the remote power.

 

[Peteandsharon]

Thanks Bill. We just had very nasty storms come rumbling through our area the other night with very strong winds, huge rain and some tornados. As I'm laying in bed listening to my sump cycle on and off more than I've ever heard it, the thought of having a generator seemed like a very good idea. But in reality I would use it way too little to cost justify it.

I think I'm going to go ahead and try to install this 50 amp outlet and as I said earlier, I'll try to do as much of the grunt work by myself and just leave the part that I don't trust myself to do for the electrician.

The problem is that when I speak to electricians I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling. One of my neighbors is a retired electrician and when I spoke to him yesterday he also told me that my 50 amp circuit has to be a 220 volt circuit. He said that you can't have two independent 110 circuits share a common neutral. He even said that probably my A/C in the BH is a 220 volt A/C. I assured him that it was not but he still insisted that the 50 amp circuit had to be 220 volt.

I'm thinking that maybe this is all just semantics. Maybe we're all really talking the same thing here. I can't believe this is rocket science to an electrician but I really don't want to bring someone in here to fry everything on the inside of the Bighorn.

 

[truknutt]

Pete,

Here is a link with pictures that you should show your retired electrician. Scroll down to the "250 Volt, 50 Amp AC Wiring" section and have fun.

Another link I found has a chart for determining the gauge wire to use based upon length of the run (link here). (Click on links on the left of the page)

"Normal RV Service consist of 30-amp 120-volt or a 50-amp 120/240-volt. The cost difference for the installation between the two is not that great (except for the cost of the wire)."

Hope this helps some....I gotta have pictures!!!

 

[bill40]

Hi Pete
I put a 30amp box for ours and so far it has been fine. The biggest expense was the 80ft of wire and the pipe. Had to run it under the driveway. Make sure the pipe is large enough to slide the wire through mine sould have been about 1/2 to and inch larger. I got the box and plug at HD. Shop around for the wire. Bill

 

[Peteandsharon]

Thanks again guys. The link was very good for me because it explained two things very clearly. First it explained what voltages should be measured from each blade to neutral and from blade to blade. It also explained very clearly how the circuits are divided up in the trailer. To me, as long as the electrician understands those requirements, he can call it whatever he wants - 120, 240 or 500 volt circuit.

But really, if I am understanding correctly, it really is 240 OR 120 depending on how it is combined or separated in the rig. That's why 240 volt motorhomes and 120 volt fivers can use the same receptacle. Very good stuff.

Thanks again. As usual, you've all been a great help.

 

[Macattack]

Pete
Your electrician is right that you can't have 2 independent circuits share the same neutral. The 50-amp service to the trailer is 220 volt. Once inside the trailers breaker box, the opposing circuits are kept seperated,and each will have its own neutral and ground to your plug ins and appliances. You are right that none of your appliances are 220 volt in the BH. They are either 120 volt or 12 volt. As far as wiring to the receptacle,it is the same as it is in your stix and brix. I hope I didn't get you confused when I said that the circuits are out of phase with each other, they are 180 degrees opposite of each other,(which you have to have to get the 220 volts).Also, just in case,like I said before, if you do go with the 30-amp service, it is 110 volt all the way from the breaker box to the trailer.

 

[Peteandsharon]

Well, after getting the $1500 estimate from those knuckleheads I got mad and took a different approach. I bought all the hardware myself, mounted the box and receptacle and ran the #6 wires through the garage wall, along the inside and right up to the place where it would go into my basement. Then I paid an electrician $120 for 2 hours of work to bring it into the basement and hook up to the breaker box. All is done and working fine for about $300. Sure beats $1500. The #6 wires were no treat to work with, especially getting it through the garage wall and hooking up to the receptacle. I put in a good chunk of last weekend messing with it but it was well worth it.

 

[jbeletti]

Way to go Pete. We knew you co do it. Nice hybrid solution to what was an expensive proposition.

Jim

 

[SouthernNights]

Good for you!!!!.

When I read your post about 1500.00, I couldnt believe it. I realize things are priced differently depending where you live, but that was ridiculous even if sheetrock had to be cut and patched etc.

 

[Peteandsharon]

Yeah, the interesting thing about their estimate is that they were estimating $300 for the work in the garage which was the most time consuming and they estimated $1200 for the part that I paid $120 - running the conduit 15 feet through the basement and hooking up to the breaker box. I'm guessing they just didn't want the job. Thanks guys.

 

[Macattack]

Great job Pete....Good to see that you got it ran and hooked up. Maybe now it is time for a cocktail and a meal out on the town for a reward for saving that much money. Way to go.