Are We Just Unlucky?
- Thread starter Disheartened
- Start date
codycarver
Founding Wyoming Chapter Leader-retired
Maybe, doesn't seem to be a valid excuse to me though.
codycarver
Founding Wyoming Chapter Leader-retired
Heartland directly.
codycarver
Founding Wyoming Chapter Leader-retired
Not really. Thing change. Perhaps it depends on who's lap it falls in. All I know is when someone makes a buying discussion based largely on what you are telling them you want to be confident in your suggestion's.....right now I am not.
Bob&Patty
Founders of SoCal Chapter
It does seem odd, but I can tell you in 8 almost 9 years I have never had an issue with HL service...but I call on the phone. I don't use emails for things that are really important to me. Some times they go off into cyber space never to be seen again. But that's just me.
codycarver
Founding Wyoming Chapter Leader-retired
Me neither.... until now, add to that my conversation last night and a pattern starts to form. These folks are as easy to get along with as anybody and there not making a fuss but I'm the one that told them to consider Heartland.
danemayer
Well-known member
Dave,
My own experience over the past 5 years is mixed. But being pragmatic, I've learned to call rather than email, and to stay on hold rather than wait for a return call. With email, I never know in advance if the person is at work or if at work, whether he's in the same job. I find it's always better to call and if additional information needs to be provided, to email at the end of the call. Early on I had a few experiences where I didn't get timely return calls. Now I stay on hold.
Once I get to talk with a Customer Service Rep, the response is almost always good. And if it's not what I expect, I gently explore the response and usually get it turned around.
But as sales have increased, I'd guess that a lot of new people getting hired in Customer Service. New people may not be as good as experienced people. Again, being pragmatic, I just look for the best way to work around the inexperience.
A few weeks ago I spent some time with Jim Fenner, the Director of Customer Service. I believe he's 100% committed to taking care of us all. Of course intent and execution may not be perfectly aligned all the time, but I don't think Heartland has in any way lowered their goals. And again, being pragmatic, if I think someone isn't achieving their goals, I just gently try to help them do better, which usually gets them aligned with my goals.
My own experience over the past 5 years is mixed. But being pragmatic, I've learned to call rather than email, and to stay on hold rather than wait for a return call. With email, I never know in advance if the person is at work or if at work, whether he's in the same job. I find it's always better to call and if additional information needs to be provided, to email at the end of the call. Early on I had a few experiences where I didn't get timely return calls. Now I stay on hold.
Once I get to talk with a Customer Service Rep, the response is almost always good. And if it's not what I expect, I gently explore the response and usually get it turned around.
But as sales have increased, I'd guess that a lot of new people getting hired in Customer Service. New people may not be as good as experienced people. Again, being pragmatic, I just look for the best way to work around the inexperience.
A few weeks ago I spent some time with Jim Fenner, the Director of Customer Service. I believe he's 100% committed to taking care of us all. Of course intent and execution may not be perfectly aligned all the time, but I don't think Heartland has in any way lowered their goals. And again, being pragmatic, if I think someone isn't achieving their goals, I just gently try to help them do better, which usually gets them aligned with my goals.
How can one company have so many different "ratings " that's not the word I wanted to use but I think everyone on this forum knows what Iam talking about how can someone call customer service one day and another person call the next day and be a completely different outcome? I know they have different people for different makes and models but I guess I just don't understand management that's why I turned out to be wrench turner which suits me just fine at least I can fix most of my problems myself lol , maybe something has changed in the front office ,I have said some negative things also but after reading other people's problems Iam happy to have just the few minor things I've had , I still cannot believe that someone from heartland is not monitoring this forum ,I do not believe that for a minute ,I think we can all agree on the QC department needs a overhaul lol that's for sure , so if you are working for heartland and reading this thanks for making my Big Country on a Tuesday lol when I first got it I wasn't sure about my purchase but after a few screws tightened and a few wire nuts tightened ,some adjustments,some of our own touches we have a vary nice couch !! Still not sure about those dang blowmax tires yet Iam holding my breath on those ,well I've ranted enough thanks for a great forum y'all guys and gals you are the best ! jimtoo ,bob and I forget the others keep those jokes coming they always seem to brighten my day have a great weekend everyone ⛄️⛄️⛄️⛄️⛄️⛄️⛄️⛄️⛄️
JohnD
Moved on to the next thing...
We just picked up our new 2015 Heartland Prowler 3 weeks ago today . . .
Haven't taken it out yet (next week - yea!) . . . but have checked it out in the yard and so far have only found four issues thus far . . . all mostly minor.
The awning is pulled out of the track on one end, so it sags badly when extended . . . small leak in the basement (don't think it is plumbing, but the shower stall leaks somewhere) . . . the rear window shade needs to be replaced (gets all scrunched up and can only go halfway up) . . . and the hinge on the front basement door is goofy (not loose, but the door jiggles in the track).
Oh . . . one thing I noticed when I crawled under the trailer yesterday is that the coroplast seem very brittle (like maybe water got inside of it somehow) and the bottom of the trailer is very rusty.
Mostly minor stuff . . . and I have already reported these issues (except for the coroplast) to our dealer, although I think I should call Heartland directly to get the ball rolling on that window shade!
Haven't taken it out yet (next week - yea!) . . . but have checked it out in the yard and so far have only found four issues thus far . . . all mostly minor.
The awning is pulled out of the track on one end, so it sags badly when extended . . . small leak in the basement (don't think it is plumbing, but the shower stall leaks somewhere) . . . the rear window shade needs to be replaced (gets all scrunched up and can only go halfway up) . . . and the hinge on the front basement door is goofy (not loose, but the door jiggles in the track).
Oh . . . one thing I noticed when I crawled under the trailer yesterday is that the coroplast seem very brittle (like maybe water got inside of it somehow) and the bottom of the trailer is very rusty.
Mostly minor stuff . . . and I have already reported these issues (except for the coroplast) to our dealer, although I think I should call Heartland directly to get the ball rolling on that window shade!
codycarver
Founding Wyoming Chapter Leader-retired
Dave,
My own experience over the past 5 years is mixed. But being pragmatic, I've learned to call rather than email, and to stay on hold rather than wait for a return call. With email, I never know in advance if the person is at work or if at work, whether he's in the same job. I find it's always better to call and if additional information needs to be provided, to email at the end of the call. Early on I had a few experiences where I didn't get timely return calls. Now I stay on hold.
Once I get to talk with a Customer Service Rep, the response is almost always good. And if it's not what I expect, I gently explore the response and usually get it turned around.
But as sales have increased, I'd guess that a lot of new people getting hired in Customer Service. New people may not be as good as experienced people. Again, being pragmatic, I just look for the best way to work around the inexperience.
A few weeks ago I spent some time with Jim Fenner, the Director of Customer Service. I believe he's 100% committed to taking care of us all. Of course intent and execution may not be perfectly aligned all the time, but I don't think Heartland has in any way lowered their goals. And again, being pragmatic, if I think someone isn't achieving their goals, I just gently try to help them do better, which usually gets them aligned with my goals.
As always you have a wonderful way of putting things Dan and I agree but as they say you don't get a second chance to make a first impression. As far as email versus phone is concerned some of us simply don't have the time or inclination to sit on hold. Email has never been a problem before, If it's turned into one then it probably shouldn't be offered as an option.
Oh, some good news. Got an email from customer service today and she is working to find answers to my questions.
alot of talk about customer service at heartland i have a 2013 big horn 3570 which i lease out. really did not have any problems . i bought this brand new in 2013 the only trouble i had was it was in storage for about a year. i would go and rotate tires check on everything and clean the outside. left to go overseas for two months when i returned it had been broken into, had insurance gotit fixed and everything so far is fine. this year i purchased a new 2016 big horn 3875 had it built for me been living in it past two months no problems so far. now i am planning on hiting the road end of august as a full timer, so we see how everthing works on the road. had some problems with roofing plans on where to install winegard trav'ler dish called heartland talk to terry hayes he emailed plans the same day. also talked to terry about some big horn owners haveing a hard time installing this dish on the backer that heartland installed in the roof and he told me to send my comments to him and he would address them so far good rv's and good customer service and i fully agree these rv's are not something you let just sit around the need upkeep on a regular basis
I feel your pain, Disheartened....
We have a 2011 Big Country 3510 and have had NOTHING but problems with it since we purchased. Thousands of dollars in repairs (new landing gear, all new plumbing - thank goodness since my husband replaced all the plumbing we have had NO problems), new brakes (within the first 2 years), the front cap had faded and now the back cap is going, hot water tank problems, bushings and wheel bearings. We have not neglected our unit and pay very special attention to it. As yours has done, our stain has peeled off the cabinets in the kitchen, many of the handles in the unit have lost their colour (worn off) and other issues. The dealer who sold it to us actually told us that 'we got screwed' (sorry for the language) and laughed at us regarding our purchase and told us to turn our unit into a park model. That didn't sit well at all. Paying this kind of money for a unit, we expect a little more than what we got.
BUT.... we are now proud owners of a 2008 Titanium 33E38TS. Yes... we traded our 2011 Big Country for a 2008 and are so happy to be back to the Ti family of superior products. Yes, they have gone out of business (due to mis-management), but these units were built like tanks and even the 2005 units look almost new. We will be picking our unit up soon. Check out the NADA book value of the Titaniums vs the Big Country. Ti's have held their value because of their quality. It's a shame they don't make these units anymore but at least we now have our 'last RV' and this will carry us though to the future.
Yes... I feel your pain. Good luck!!
apc427
Member
My husband I traded in our old Motorhome for a new 4200. We thought any immediate issues we would encounter would be minor. Not so. We became very upset with both the dealership and Heartland with our many issues. Sometimes you have to just keep contacting them until you get the right person. Once we finally were handed over to Scott at Heartland, he has been very helpful. There was a lot of frustration prior to dealing with him though. We have learned a lot since buying this new rig. Expect problems and work through them. We love our 4200 and are glad we have stuck it out. Once you get the initial issues worked out, it's a great rig.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tundra2084
Well-known member
Eileen glad you finally got a unit that you will be happy with and hopefully with no problems. We have delamination behind the fridge on our unit and still can't find the water intrusion that heartland says is always the cause, but no matter the cause we are left to fix the problem on our own with NO help from heartland. We hope this will be the only major problem with ours and like yourselves we have no help from heartlandrv nor any offer of any help from them. I guess it all depends on who you know, and how much you spend on their units to get help from them. On the lower end units you get NO help but get into a newer higher end unit and they rush right in. We even went to Goshen Rally and had one of the workers look (from outside of unit and no inspection behind fridge where Dela occurred) and was told YUP Water intrusion. Plain and simple has to be water your on your own and oh by the way ..make sure when you do caulking to caulk really well on the back wall seams as that's where most problems with delamination happens. Simple as that, they walked away no offer of help of any kind, not their problem. Already had an estimate done by a body shop to repair and was told by that tech he could see NO water but it's still gonna cost us $2000 to fix it.
Have fun in your new unit and safe travels back to sits next year. As you already know their are great people there and a great place to spend the winter months.
Have fun in your new unit and safe travels back to sits next year. As you already know their are great people there and a great place to spend the winter months.
We own a 2011 heartland!! Love the layout - fits our blended family perfectly. However, we started noticing after only a year a small spot near the top, front corner that just looked odd. A year later, the front started looking wavy. I called the dealership in Ohio and they said it would not be covered to have it fixed. This year, we have delamination on all four sides. The company won't help us and it is not covered under our insurance. We have 6 children, two in college and can't afford to repair our 4 year old trailer because it appears it is outrageously expensive to fix. The trailer we had before was 23 years old. We don't see this trailer surviving nearly his long! Does anyone have any suggestions?
Jim.Allison
Well-known member
I'm not PC and not cranky, I hope you realize that it is more than buying a used rig and blaming everything that goes wrong on the brand itself. I'm compelled to write because it bothers me that someone jumps on a forum and unabashedly trashes a product that I have invested good money in. The results are to run down the value of my rig that I intend to resell someday. I meticulously maintain my rig utilizing information I get on this forum and from other sources. If you buy my rig used you will be getting value.
I have a thermometer in my rig that records the high temps and low temps each 24 hours, unattended, In Texas the rigs reach incredible interior temps in the summer. In the winter they reach extreme lows. Your cabinets are peeling and chipping from exposure to this weather most likely from condensation that forms when hot humid air is suddenly cooled. Almost everything you described is a normal maintenance issue or can be prevented.
One scenario that presents itself is that typical RV owners do not maintain their rigs properly, if you bought a used one, I can lay odds that it was not EVER maintained prior to your purchase. I have learned many things on this forum. I would have otherwise neglected them. There is a high likelihood that your rig was not prepped for you by your dealer.
Dealers range from excellent to excellent schiesters. If you cannot do maintenance on your own, you really need to make sure your maintenance tech is excellent. That lube job that an owner bought for $200 may have been anything from nothing to shooting way to much grease in with a pneumatic grease gun. One is stealing and the other is ignorance. And $200 for a lube job is way too much anyway, unless of course it is a R&R hand pack with new seal included.
15,000 lb industrial sized equipment, not a toy. Your rig requires maintenance prior to use and storage. There are items that are too many to count that need to be inspected and adjusted. Bearings must be lubricated, the absolute best is clean inspect and hand pack, after that it's lube at regular intervals, the repeat process again. My rig is a 2014 and I bring it to the house at least 4 days before departing, for inspection, cleaning and adjustments and repairs if required. Over those 4 days I expect to spend at least 20 hours performing those task and any mods that I want to make. It is 2 year old, and yes I have to do things to it.
Dealer "catch 22"/endless loop. I bought my rig and have never taken it back to the dealer or any other dealer for that matter. One of the reason why is that I have never found anything that rates the cost of hauling that thing to a dealer, I would just as soon repair it myself rather than having a highschool kid with a screw driver messing with my rig. Plus that I have rarely heard of a dealer that gets you in and out. I personally believe that dealers can introduce more problems than they can solve. You take it in for a simple repair, they disconnect the batt to do the repair, then they arc the contact or cross wire it then your charger blows a fuse that you discover after getting the rig back to your house. Or in one case of an owner on this forum, a dealer dropped the man's BRAND NEW rig causing major damage and several months in the shop. Many times the issue is not repaired at all, entire vacations are messed up because of bad repairs. Me I have not had one major problem, and no warranty repairs. I'm so comfortable with my rig, i cashed in my extended warranties when I figured out that there were no boogie men behind the basement walls.
What is the matter, and what you were told the matter was, are many times two different things, many dealers and shops tend to oversell, I have heard of some extreme chump prices, and issues that just don't sound right. Many RV owners have money, and they are willing to spend it, which makes dealer service departments inflate prices and perpatrate frauds. Owners come from all walks of life, many have no comprehension of what an inflated price would be, they are chumps. I don't mean any malice by that statement, I just mean that there are people that can recognize the value of a repair and not overpay, and those that can't. those that cant drive up the price to the point that I wont pay it, so I do it myself, I can do it better anyway.
As far as the factory is concerned; After my warranty expired, I lost a light lens, all I wanted from Heartland was the manufacturer name of the lens. He told me that he would check it out and get back to me. A couple of days went by, and I began wondering when he was going to call me back. I was getting ready to call again when the doorbell rang. It was a UPS box ($10 freight) with the correct lens in it. I did not expect that at all, I did not even ask for that. I fully expected to buy the lens for an internet source, not get it for free. Just a lens, agreed. But it is the thought that counts. A lot went into that customer service person arranging to send it to me.
As far as the tires go, 15k lbs on 4 tires is an issue for all of us, which requires a lot of study. If those were OEM Towmax tires you got better service than most people do. My brand new ones let go at 1800 miles, many have gone in less than that, some people have gotten better service, it just all depends. But Heartland offers one of the best tire for that application, the Goodyear G614, it was optional for your rig, the Towmax is not even in the same league. But you could not have known that since you bought your rig used, and your dealer did not inform you that new and better tires were needed. Your issue over the tires is strictly between you, towmax/tire manufacturer and your dealer, IMHO. Have many of us been snagged by the Towmax ST tire problem? Yes, but like you we were unaware of the ST tire issue, and that the option was available from heartland for the G614. Had I known there was an issue I would have never had a blowout, at least a Towmax blowout, not really Heartlands fault, well... maybe a little. But no matter what you do, you will always need to be looking at your tires for problems, your tire problems are not behind you so to speak, the are ahead of you. ALWAYS
A word about tires, we fiver drivers always blame the tires, and rightfully so in the case of the Towmax, but many times we forget the curbs, chug holes, and those pesky tight turns that we make when forced into a corner, or making a difficult parking maneuver. You know, the ones where the tire is about to roll off the rims? All that is detrimental to tires. We forget about what happened last year, and blame the tire for what happened this year. In your case you could not have known what your tires had been through, because you bought used, and did not at least buy a new set of tires for your rig before starting out on your adventure.
What I describe above is the difference between rigs, it is the patina they develope, whether you buy new or used, you must make it your own by performing the mods and repairs that make it work for you. You must anticipate problems and look for them. I once had an airplane that was 48 years old. I had to have it inspected every year, and repairs had to be made on a regular basis. My life depended on it. 48 years old today it is 63 years old. Go look at the tarmac of a small airport, there are neglected airplanes that were airworthy when they were parked, now their tires are rotted, their interior is rotten and the paint is faded. Why? Neglect, my airplane is still in the air 63 years after it was built. There are newer planes abandoned all around the USA.
BTW, When buying used you must take a close look at what you are buying. If I were buying used, I would buy from an individual who could tell me and show me everything that he has done, and what he does to keep it maintained, I would interview him. Once I was confident that he was competent, I would consider purchasing from him. An individual will have a box of stuff to give you, such as screws, parts, grease, and a box of service records. A dealer might be selling you a repossessed piece of junk, the salesperson is lying if he knows the origin of the rig unless he took it on trade himself.
Be kind to us Heartland owners, and dont run down our rigs. Its your rig that is causing you problems not ours. - Just saying
Having a great time with my Heartland BC3650RL, and everyone that I show it to wants one, and it ain't for sale.
I have a thermometer in my rig that records the high temps and low temps each 24 hours, unattended, In Texas the rigs reach incredible interior temps in the summer. In the winter they reach extreme lows. Your cabinets are peeling and chipping from exposure to this weather most likely from condensation that forms when hot humid air is suddenly cooled. Almost everything you described is a normal maintenance issue or can be prevented.
One scenario that presents itself is that typical RV owners do not maintain their rigs properly, if you bought a used one, I can lay odds that it was not EVER maintained prior to your purchase. I have learned many things on this forum. I would have otherwise neglected them. There is a high likelihood that your rig was not prepped for you by your dealer.
Dealers range from excellent to excellent schiesters. If you cannot do maintenance on your own, you really need to make sure your maintenance tech is excellent. That lube job that an owner bought for $200 may have been anything from nothing to shooting way to much grease in with a pneumatic grease gun. One is stealing and the other is ignorance. And $200 for a lube job is way too much anyway, unless of course it is a R&R hand pack with new seal included.
15,000 lb industrial sized equipment, not a toy. Your rig requires maintenance prior to use and storage. There are items that are too many to count that need to be inspected and adjusted. Bearings must be lubricated, the absolute best is clean inspect and hand pack, after that it's lube at regular intervals, the repeat process again. My rig is a 2014 and I bring it to the house at least 4 days before departing, for inspection, cleaning and adjustments and repairs if required. Over those 4 days I expect to spend at least 20 hours performing those task and any mods that I want to make. It is 2 year old, and yes I have to do things to it.
Dealer "catch 22"/endless loop. I bought my rig and have never taken it back to the dealer or any other dealer for that matter. One of the reason why is that I have never found anything that rates the cost of hauling that thing to a dealer, I would just as soon repair it myself rather than having a highschool kid with a screw driver messing with my rig. Plus that I have rarely heard of a dealer that gets you in and out. I personally believe that dealers can introduce more problems than they can solve. You take it in for a simple repair, they disconnect the batt to do the repair, then they arc the contact or cross wire it then your charger blows a fuse that you discover after getting the rig back to your house. Or in one case of an owner on this forum, a dealer dropped the man's BRAND NEW rig causing major damage and several months in the shop. Many times the issue is not repaired at all, entire vacations are messed up because of bad repairs. Me I have not had one major problem, and no warranty repairs. I'm so comfortable with my rig, i cashed in my extended warranties when I figured out that there were no boogie men behind the basement walls.
What is the matter, and what you were told the matter was, are many times two different things, many dealers and shops tend to oversell, I have heard of some extreme chump prices, and issues that just don't sound right. Many RV owners have money, and they are willing to spend it, which makes dealer service departments inflate prices and perpatrate frauds. Owners come from all walks of life, many have no comprehension of what an inflated price would be, they are chumps. I don't mean any malice by that statement, I just mean that there are people that can recognize the value of a repair and not overpay, and those that can't. those that cant drive up the price to the point that I wont pay it, so I do it myself, I can do it better anyway.
As far as the factory is concerned; After my warranty expired, I lost a light lens, all I wanted from Heartland was the manufacturer name of the lens. He told me that he would check it out and get back to me. A couple of days went by, and I began wondering when he was going to call me back. I was getting ready to call again when the doorbell rang. It was a UPS box ($10 freight) with the correct lens in it. I did not expect that at all, I did not even ask for that. I fully expected to buy the lens for an internet source, not get it for free. Just a lens, agreed. But it is the thought that counts. A lot went into that customer service person arranging to send it to me.
As far as the tires go, 15k lbs on 4 tires is an issue for all of us, which requires a lot of study. If those were OEM Towmax tires you got better service than most people do. My brand new ones let go at 1800 miles, many have gone in less than that, some people have gotten better service, it just all depends. But Heartland offers one of the best tire for that application, the Goodyear G614, it was optional for your rig, the Towmax is not even in the same league. But you could not have known that since you bought your rig used, and your dealer did not inform you that new and better tires were needed. Your issue over the tires is strictly between you, towmax/tire manufacturer and your dealer, IMHO. Have many of us been snagged by the Towmax ST tire problem? Yes, but like you we were unaware of the ST tire issue, and that the option was available from heartland for the G614. Had I known there was an issue I would have never had a blowout, at least a Towmax blowout, not really Heartlands fault, well... maybe a little. But no matter what you do, you will always need to be looking at your tires for problems, your tire problems are not behind you so to speak, the are ahead of you. ALWAYS
A word about tires, we fiver drivers always blame the tires, and rightfully so in the case of the Towmax, but many times we forget the curbs, chug holes, and those pesky tight turns that we make when forced into a corner, or making a difficult parking maneuver. You know, the ones where the tire is about to roll off the rims? All that is detrimental to tires. We forget about what happened last year, and blame the tire for what happened this year. In your case you could not have known what your tires had been through, because you bought used, and did not at least buy a new set of tires for your rig before starting out on your adventure.
What I describe above is the difference between rigs, it is the patina they develope, whether you buy new or used, you must make it your own by performing the mods and repairs that make it work for you. You must anticipate problems and look for them. I once had an airplane that was 48 years old. I had to have it inspected every year, and repairs had to be made on a regular basis. My life depended on it. 48 years old today it is 63 years old. Go look at the tarmac of a small airport, there are neglected airplanes that were airworthy when they were parked, now their tires are rotted, their interior is rotten and the paint is faded. Why? Neglect, my airplane is still in the air 63 years after it was built. There are newer planes abandoned all around the USA.
BTW, When buying used you must take a close look at what you are buying. If I were buying used, I would buy from an individual who could tell me and show me everything that he has done, and what he does to keep it maintained, I would interview him. Once I was confident that he was competent, I would consider purchasing from him. An individual will have a box of stuff to give you, such as screws, parts, grease, and a box of service records. A dealer might be selling you a repossessed piece of junk, the salesperson is lying if he knows the origin of the rig unless he took it on trade himself.
Be kind to us Heartland owners, and dont run down our rigs. Its your rig that is causing you problems not ours. - Just saying
Having a great time with my Heartland BC3650RL, and everyone that I show it to wants one, and it ain't for sale.
GOTTOYS
Well-known member
I don't always agree with Jim.Allison, but he is spot on with this post!! IMHO you must be able to diagnose problems, repair things yourself and properly maintain rather than depend on someone else or you should stay in a hotel. No middle ground. I applaud you Jim, for telling it like it is. Thank you...Don